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 Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security

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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:53 am

Imo, if the key is the wrong pellet resistance, the car should not start (3 min delay).

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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:40 pm

well I am not sure but the lite is only on when the key is on and it starts right up every time, I have about 20 or 30 starts so far with out any fail starts.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:57 pm

The light is supposed to come on when the key is first put in the "ON" position then go out after the engine starts.
That's what was being asked.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:36 pm

To repeat:

- Untaped key ON, the Security Light goes on solid for about 5 seconds, then goes out, and the car starts.
- Taped key ON, the Security Light flashes, and the START position does nothing...

Thus, I think a light on all the time indicates a module with a problem, so it defaults to letting the car run until you pay attention to the light and take it to the shop. To back that up, here's a quote from the '95 Owner's Manual:

If you’re ever driving and the SECURITY light comes
on, you will be able to restart your engine if you turn it
off. Your PASS-Key@II system, however, is not
working properly and must be serviced by your Buick
dealer. Your vehicle is not protected by the
PASS-Key@II system.
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PostSubject: Anbyone used this Passkey 2 delete setup?   Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:39 am

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GM-VATS-PASSkey-II-Bypass-Module-LS1-and-LT1-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3361cd0bedQQitemZ220684159981QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

I have no Ign key for my car but can get one from the dealer. Only problem being they don't know the resistance value of the pellet. Would this work?
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:22 pm

BlownRiv wrote:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GM-VATS-PASSkey-II-Bypass-Module-LS1-and-LT1-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3361cd0bedQQitemZ220684159981QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

I have no Ign key for my car but can get one from the dealer. Only problem being they don't know the resistance value of the pellet. Would this work?

"They don't know the resistance value of the pellet" = not exactlytrue, they may just be blowing you off.

Find another counterperson or another dealer, they can either look it up using the VIN (my local dealer did with mine) or use GM’s J35628A Interrogator Tester which is the special Passkey troubleshooting tool. And for as much as they charge for those *#&$@(#*& keys, they really should not charge you extra for using the tester to check it and get it running.

Albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:13 pm

Now its been my experience that its the barrel or the key that causes the problems. So I figure i'm going to do what I did when vats went in my old GP. I pulled another barrel from a yard car did the re-learn procedure and mounted the new tumbler under the dash and just kept the original key and barrel in place. This allowed me to get normal keys cut and it never acted up. This car also had high miles.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:37 pm

BlownRiv wrote:
Now its been my experience that its the barrel or the key that causes the problems. So I figure i'm going to do what I did when vats went in my old GP. I pulled another barrel from a yard car did the re-learn procedure and mounted the new tumbler under the dash and just kept the original key and barrel in place. This allowed me to get normal keys cut and it never acted up. This car also had high miles.

for those of you reading this - earlier in the thread there are instructions for cleaning the VATS contacts with dry gas and a cotton swab/Q-tip(R). Often that's all that's wrong, the contacts got cruddy or some such.

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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:05 pm

hmm, I missed this thread when it was going on before, but thanks to the recent bumps I read it all thorough.

I think I'll use the resister line for my keycode lockout project. I have a security number-pad that fits right in one of the cupholders. The right code fires a relay. I was going to try and tap the starter/ignition circuits, but hijacking the built in security is a better route. Then I can be really cool like The Transporter.

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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Fri Feb 11, 2011 6:41 am

albertj wrote:
BlownRiv wrote:
Now its been my experience that its the barrel or the key that causes the problems. So I figure i'm going to do what I did when vats went in my old GP. I pulled another barrel from a yard car did the re-learn procedure and mounted the new tumbler under the dash and just kept the original key and barrel in place. This allowed me to get normal keys cut and it never acted up. This car also had high miles.

for those of you reading this - earlier in the thread there are instructions for cleaning the VATS contacts with dry gas and a cotton swab/Q-tip(R). Often that's all that's wrong, the contacts got cruddy or some such.


I tried all that and more. From what I understand the wire in the barrel becomes loose after years of operation. I was stranded when this happened and got a rental car to drive to the u-pull. I grabbed 3 vats barrels from various GM yard cars for practically nothing.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:59 pm

BlownRiv wrote:
albertj wrote:
BlownRiv wrote:
Now its been my experience that its the barrel or the key that causes the problems. So I figure i'm going to do what I did when vats went in my old GP. I pulled another barrel from a yard car did the re-learn procedure and mounted the new tumbler under the dash and just kept the original key and barrel in place. This allowed me to get normal keys cut and it never acted up. This car also had high miles.

for those of you reading this - earlier in the thread there are instructions for cleaning the VATS contacts with dry gas and a cotton swab/Q-tip(R). Often that's all that's wrong, the contacts got cruddy or some such.


I tried all that and more. From what I understand the wire in the barrel becomes loose after years of operation. I was stranded when this happened and got a rental car to drive to the u-pull. I grabbed 3 vats barrels from various GM yard cars for practically nothing.

Interesting.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:53 pm

Pulled a barrel from a 95 aurora at the yard as it was the only car that had a key. It seems that these barrels are hard wired into a big plug unlike other GM barrels that unplug. So I simply cut the wire. There was one riv' in the yard complete with a mint green interior but sadly no keys.
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PostSubject: Passkey Bypass   Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:02 am

I'm not sure where to look here, but I'm guessing my questions have been addressed, as I understand this is a common problem. My '96 starts after you let the security light cycle. A new key didn't solve the problem, so I've done my best to find a solution. As I understand things, the orange wire under the dash houses two leads that I install 7.5K ohms of resistance into (key #13). Since I'm not much of an electronics person, I'm wondering if the wattage of the resistors matters (the ones I have are quarter watt, 5% tolerance)? I'll line eight together. Also, does anyone know if it matters which of the two white wires it goes into? Thanks R.L.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:27 pm

canada wrote:
I'm not sure where to look here, but I'm guessing my questions have been addressed, as I understand this is a common problem. My '96 starts after you let the security light cycle. A new key didn't solve the problem, so I've done my best to find a solution. As I understand things, the orange wire under the dash houses two leads that I install 7.5K ohms of resistance into (key #13). Since I'm not much of an electronics person, I'm wondering if the wattage of the resistors matters (the ones I have are quarter watt, 5% tolerance)? I'll line eight together. Also, does anyone know if it matters which of the two white wires it goes into? Thanks R.L.

I would not do the bypass *but* I know people who have, and form them I understand that 1/8 watt would be adequate so anything with larger wattage capacity will be fine of course. For my own reasons, whe I had this problem I replaced the lock cylinder. Cylinder comes with new "pattern keys" and you then get a chipped blank (ti's only a resistor) from a dealer or online, dealer will cut to fit using your VIN or you can take to a hardware store or what have you with a key machine and let them cut to match.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:01 pm

I had to leave my Riv at a gas station a few hours ago because of this security crap. I thought I'd solved the earlier problem by switching to the other key. The one I was using was so worn it didn't have teeth the new key has shocked I don't know how it worked to begin with, so it seemed reasonable to think the worn teeth were the problem. But now neither set will work.

After reading through everything in this thread, I can't tell if the problem is VATS, PASS key II, or the radio dunno Do I put a resistor in an orange wire, or cut a black and white wire (for a 97)?
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:57 am

Back from the gas station. Never felt so much like a criminal in my life, monkeying under the dash of a car at 11:00 p.m. lookin' like I'm hot wiring it. The inevitable police officer was professional and didn't give me a hard time about it. I made sure I had all my credentials with me because there was no doubt what would happen.

I tried cleaning the ignition and the keys, that didn't work.

I tried AA's white and black wire cutting trick. That didn't work. I mistakenly cut a black and white wire first, but I stripped the ends and twisted them back together so, that shouldn't be a factor.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:27 am

I can see your in a real bind Jack, and need some real help pronto. I can imaging the stress involved in this situation. I wish I could help but I just don't know enough about this system, might have to have it towed home? frown
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:21 am

Jack, Ive not not done the bypass, but wasn't AA wire cutting trick a fluke? as I understand it you need to measure the resistance in your key, buy some resistors that make up the same resistance, and wire them in the line.

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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:14 am

Karma wrote:
Jack, Ive not not done the bypass, but wasn't AA wire cutting trick a fluke? as I understand it you need to measure the resistance in your key, buy some resistors that make up the same resistance, and wire them in the line.

Yes. After you measure the resistance in the key, you can cut the pass key wires and put a resistor of the same resistance between the 2 wires......This will "disable" the theft system and make it really easy for someone to steal the car lol
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:16 am

Jack, the problem should only last 3 minutes, then the car will start. If it waits longer, you have another issue.

Cutting the black/white wire solved the problem in my case. Never had a problem starting again. The Security lamp is always illuminated, but I plan to take care of that next time the dash is out.

It's hard to say if cutting the wire will work. It certainly doesn't hurt anything to try. You can always crimp it back together. I think it will work if you have the same problem as I did - I believe it was a failing security module. If you have some other problem, like faulty contacts in the lock cylinder, it may not work, or it may. EDIT: I see you tried this already.

My original plan was to install a resistor across the black/white & purple wires, but never got around to doing that. Now I'm not really sure it would work in my case, because it's the module that's bad, not the lock cylinder. If you cut the white/black wire with no luck, you may try the resistor trick and it could work. I bought a trimmer from Radio Shack, which lets you dial in the exact value with a screw driver. You'll need an ohm meter to measure your key, of course.

Good luck. If it's security, I really think one of the two methods will solve your issue. If you do the resistor, the Security lamp should not stay on as with cutting the wire.

Best,
AA

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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:36 pm

AA wrote:
Jack, the problem should only last 3 minutes, then the car will start. If it waits longer, you have another issue.
AA

Not so, Aaron - the cycle repeats...

"After approximately 3 minutes, the PASS-Key® II theft deterrent module performs the following actions:

* The module measures the key pellet resistance.
* The module compares the key pellet resistance to a value stored in memory.

If the values match, the PASS-Key® II theft deterrent module performs the system enable function. If the values do not match, the module performs the system disable functions again.
"

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And just to get the information out there:

If the PASS-Key® II theft deterrent module is unable to measure the key pellet resistance due to a damaged or a missing pellet, the module does not perform the system enable or system disable functions. The 3 minute interval does not occur. Afterwards, a measurable key with the correct resistance value can be used in order to start the vehicle.

Security Indicator Operation
When you turn the ignition switch to the RUN position, the SECURITY indicator illuminates (solid) for approximately 5 seconds. The indicator notifies the driver that the system operates correctly.

The PASS-Key® II system indicator operates in the following 4 modes:

* The indicator illuminates when you turn the ignition switch to RUN (5 second bulb check). This shows that the indicator and the system are operating correctly.

* The indicator illuminates after the engine starts. This indicates that one of the following conditions has occurred:
o The PASS-Key® II theft deterrent module is not properly programmed. You may use more than one key code value in order to start the vehicle. The improperly programmed module condition usually occurs on a vehicle where the module has been recently replaced. Refer to Programming the PASS-Key® II Theft Deterrent Module.
o The PASS-Key® II theft deterrent module detected a malfunction in the PASS-Key® II system while the engine was running. Verify that the following conditions are met:
+ The PASS-Key® II theft deterrent module connections are secure.
+ You are using a good ignition key.

* The indicator illuminates (solid), but the engine does not start. The PASS-Key® II theft deterrent module has detected an incorrect key pellet resistance key code value. The system disable functions activate. Perform the following steps:
1. Remove the key from the ignition.
2. Verify that the correct key code (key pellet) is being used in order to start the vehicle. Use a J 35628-A interrogator (or an ohmmeter) in order to measure each key pellet for the vehicle. All key codes should match.
3. Wait approximately 3 minutes for the system disable timer to expire. Use a known good key with the correct key code and attempt to restart the engine.
4. If the engine still does not start, refer to Content Theft Deterrent (the 'alarm' system) System Check .

* The indicator flashes and the engine does not start. The PASS-Key® II theft deterrent module has detected an open or short in the ignition key resistor input circuit. During this mode of operation, the PASS-Key® II theft deterrent module does not start the system disable timer, as noted above.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:16 pm

Eldo wrote:
If the PASS-Key® II theft deterrent module is unable to measure the key pellet resistance due to a damaged or a missing pellet, the module does not perform the system enable or system disable functions.

I'm confused, does this mean if there is no pellet it just lets the car start? Or is the wording just awkward?

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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:37 pm

Karma wrote:
Eldo wrote:
If the PASS-Key® II theft deterrent module is unable to measure the key pellet resistance due to a damaged or a missing pellet, the module does not perform the system enable or system disable functions.

I'm confused, does this mean if there is no pellet it just lets the car start? Or is the wording just awkward?

Oh, I'll admit that the GM people were not the brightest students in their English 101 classes... lol

However, you didn't read the whole line:
"Afterwards, a measurable key with the correct resistance value can be used in order to start the vehicle."
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:56 pm

Eldo wrote:
Karma wrote:
Eldo wrote:
If the PASS-Key® II theft deterrent module is unable to measure the key pellet resistance due to a damaged or a missing pellet, the module does not perform the system enable or system disable functions.

I'm confused, does this mean if there is no pellet it just lets the car start? Or is the wording just awkward?

Oh, I'll admit that the GM people were not the brightest students in their English 101 classes... lol

However, you didn't read the whole line:
"Afterwards, a measurable key with the correct resistance value can be used in order to start the vehicle."

Ok, I had read that, but interpreted the not "performing system enable or disable functions" as stepping around the resistor test and as a result, letting the car start.

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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:41 pm

Okay, I've been following this post and I haven't read that Jack has mentioned the charactoristics of his security light. Does the light stay on after 5 seconds of key in the run position? If not then his problem may not be with the security system.

If it does stay on, then his problem is more than likely to be the resistor circuit through the ignition lock not the key. I believe on the '96 the wires are white running through an orange sleeve. It unplugs down near the base of the steering column. You can bypass it there without cutting wires. Measure the resistance in the key with an ohm meter and buy the equal value resistor at Radio Shack. They are less than a dollar. A shop that installs remote starters should be able to measure your key and sell you the proper resistor if you need help with that. Be sure to wire the resistor in on the body side of the harness, not the column side. Good luck and I hope this info helps.
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