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 Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security

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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:14 pm

I have no opinion about Luca's fix.  

Most likely you need to replace the ig switch and cylinder.  There's no resistor to match  in the ig switch, it's just in the key and checked by the VATS.   So the new key needs the same resistance value of  pellet as was in the old one.

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EyeDoc1
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:09 pm

I have always appreciated your candor. OK...will order a new cylinder. Do you know of anyone who has posted a good write up with pictures on how to replace said cylinder? Perhaps with pictures? I get the sense from reading various posts that it ranges from easy to be prepared to be upside down for 4 hours with hot coffee, plenty of lighting, and a warm garage, because you're gonna be there for awhile. Any help is always appreciated
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:30 pm

EyeDoc1 wrote:
I have always appreciated your candor.  OK...will order a new cylinder.  Do you know of anyone who has posted a good write up with pictures on how to replace said cylinder?  Perhaps with pictures?  I get the sense from reading various posts that it ranges from easy to be prepared to be upside down for 4 hours with hot coffee, plenty of lighting, and a warm garage, because you're gonna be there for awhile.  Any help is always appreciated


The headache for me was removing the dash fascia, I snapped a couple little tabs on a side panel while doing that.  And either I or one of the dealer's mechanics broke a boss inside the steering column clamshell. The plastics in my '98 Riv are finally getting a bit brittle, but nowhere near as brittle as those in a 1989 Volvo 740 I used to own.  THOSE plastics were absurdly brittle.

A video that is not exact but is very instructive is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSQPDe5jeUY

The FSM is your friend on this job.  Does not take 4 hours, does not require beer. Since you know the key code (the resistor in the keyway)
you could order a replacement off eBay or wherever.  And many locksmiths and hardware stores have them locally, they just charge loads more.

The ig switch may not be bad at this time but if yours is original it might be a good idea to replace it while you are in there... they are full of these little reed switches and they quit after a while. Check rockauto.com and eBay, sometimes NOS ones come up on eBay for cheap.
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EyeDoc1
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:45 pm

An update of sorts.  I probably failed to mention that 8 months ago, I had done the resistor modification, after going down to a local audio shop as suggested, and they said they had key #4 resistor, 887 ohm.  They had no idea of the tolerances.  So, on the 1998 Riveria, once I removed the under dash fascia/knee bolster, and removed the black plastic panel that houses the floor light plus the OBD II port (and if anyone has a picture of exactly HOW it's mounted, I'd sure appreciate it--mine just flaps in the breeze and I cannot figure out how it slides or how it's supposed to be secured).  I traced the two wires that are both white, and very thin.  These two white thin wires are encased in black sheathing.  The sheathing resembles heat shrink before you, well, heat shrink it.  There are many write ups that reference orange wires and purple wires, and I don't know if it's because across model years there were different wiring harnesses or looms used, but it's a little disconcerting cutting the wrong wire.  I used a small German screw mechanism designed to hold wires securely without soldering, and this time I replaced the old resistor that either was out of tolerance or poor contact was made, and installed a new #4 resistor that measured about 920 ohms.  I think it's wise to invest in a good multimeter vs the cheapie Harbor Freight give-a-ways, that seem to have quite a bit of variability between instruments.  I probably should have remembered what everyone on the forum's wise father's, living or dead told you when you weren't listening..."son, you get what you pay for".  So rather than spend $65 bucks on a new eBay lock mechanism, a Rock Auto $125 Delco OEM part, or Luca $279 box, I fixed it, or rather got the car started with a 15 pack of $5.64 postage paid resistors.  Anyone need any of the other 14, let me know.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:10 pm

EyeDoc1 wrote:
An update of sorts.  I probably failed to mention that 8 months ago, I had done the resistor modification, after going down to a local audio shop as suggested, and they said they had key #4 resistor, 887 ohm.  They had no idea of the tolerances.  So, on the 1998 Riveria, once I removed the under dash fascia/knee bolster, and removed the black plastic panel that houses the floor light plus the OBD II port (and if anyone has a picture of exactly HOW it's mounted, I'd sure appreciate it--mine just flaps in the breeze and I cannot figure out how it slides or how it's supposed to be secured).  I traced the two wires that are both white, and very thin.  These two white thin wires are encased in black sheathing.  The sheathing resembles heat shrink before you, well, heat shrink it.  There are many write ups that reference orange wires and purple wires, and I don't know if it's because across model years there were different wiring harnesses or looms used, but it's a little disconcerting cutting the wrong wire.  I used a small German screw mechanism designed to hold wires securely without soldering, and this time I replaced the old resistor that either was out of tolerance or poor contact was made, and installed a new #4 resistor that measured about 920 ohms.  I think it's wise to invest in a good multimeter vs the cheapie Harbor Freight give-a-ways, that seem to have quite a bit of variability between instruments.  I probably should have remembered what everyone on the forum's wise father's, living or dead told you when you weren't listening..."son, you get what you pay for".  So rather than spend $65 bucks on a new eBay lock mechanism, a Rock Auto $125 Delco OEM part, or Luca $279 box, I fixed it, or rather got the car started with a 15 pack of $5.64 postage paid resistors.  Anyone need any of the other 14, let me know.

The resistor fix does work, and for many will work for the rest of the time they will have/drive the car.

As for that OBD II port, it is supposed to have little tabs that slide into slits on the sides of an opening on the black plastic panel that houses the floor light. The only other opening is for an air vent, so where the OBDII port goes would/should be obvious by inspection. It isn't that obvious that it just slides into place.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:41 pm

Well I lent my car to my kid to tool around Portland, OR while I worked on his old Infiniti, and it, being the City of Portland, promptly has the window broken out while someone stole about $6 bucks in change from that little coin holder.  Apparently my thoughts on justice 1870's style has fallen on deaf ears.  Luckily, the local Pick n' Pull had a Riv and for about $12 bucks, I was on my way.  No alarm, but sheesh, it's the People's Republic of Portland and no one would have done anything anyway.  Riv's just LOOK LIKE they have $300K in cash and 20 Kilos of cocaine in the trunk.  I had set that little override switch in the glovebox so the cash and coke were safe.  That being said, I started having the SAME NON START issue and decided to recheck the resistor.  It measured 750-760 while the key was 880 or do. D'oh!  Replaced the resistor from my stash and everything is back humming along (except for the swimming pool in the trunk).  Waiting on that.  Moral of the story?  if the resistor trick seems to be heading south, check 1) the resistor  2) your methodology of hooking it up between two white, thin wires (in my '98).  I used a little German thingy I had from when I lived in Germany that essentially joins wires by screwing down two incoming wires and on the other side, you use two screw terminals to hold both ends of the resistor.  Works great, as long as you are screwing in to wire and not insulation.  Question, since I know little of electricity...can a resistor lose it's "resistance" over time, or do they just fail completely and without warning?  As the bank robber said to Clint Eastwood in the original "Dirty Harry" movie..."I gots to know".
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:10 am

EyeDoc1 wrote:
Well I lent my car to my kid to tool around Portland, OR while I worked on his old Infiniti, and it, being the City of Portland, promptly has the window broken out while someone stole about $6 bucks in change from that little coin holder.  Apparently my thoughts on justice 1870's style has fallen on deaf ears.  Luckily, the local Pick n' Pull had a Riv and for about $12 bucks, I was on my way.  No alarm, but sheesh, it's the People's Republic of Portland and no one would have done anything anyway.  Riv's just LOOK LIKE they have $300K in cash and 20 Kilos of cocaine in the trunk.  I had set that little override switch in the glovebox so the cash and coke were safe.  That being said, I started having the SAME NON START issue and decided to recheck the resistor.  It measured 750-760 while the key was 880 or do. D'oh!  Replaced the resistor from my stash and everything is back humming along (except for the swimming pool in the trunk).  Waiting on that.  Moral of the story?  if the resistor trick seems to be heading south, check 1) the resistor  2) your methodology of hooking it up between two white, thin wires (in my '98).  I used a little German thingy I had from when I lived in Germany that essentially joins wires by screwing down two incoming wires and on the other side, you use two screw terminals to hold both ends of the resistor.  Works great, as long as you are screwing in to wire and not insulation.  Question, since I know little of electricity...can a resistor lose it's "resistance" over time, or do they just fail completely and without warning?  As the bank robber said to Clint Eastwood in the original "Dirty Harry" movie..."I gots to know".

Whether a resistor changes resistance over time depends on the initial quality of the resistor. Which can be enough swing to give VATS conniptions.

Resistors with printed values will have tolerance printed on as well (keep reading).

For color coded resistors to find tolerance read the color of the right-most band. A gold band means actual resistance will be within 5 percent of the value indicated by the color code bands. Silver indicates that the actual resistance will be within 10 percent. These values are important to calculate the variations that will occur with temperature, circuit load, etc. A resistor without tolerance marked (either color code or printed) is, IIRC, +/- 20% of the rated value. Which is enough that an 880 ohm resistor with 20% swing can measure as much as 1056 or as little as 704 ohms and still pass QC. See https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/reference/chpt-2/resistor-color-codes/ for reference and further detail (for instance, info about low tolerance resistors).

Lesson: Don't use crap parts. Or at least, be sure you know enough about the application to figure out how good is good enough.
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Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security
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