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 Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security

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LARRY70GS
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Sat Jun 12, 2010 4:24 pm

billythekid7 wrote:
i am new to this forum....i have a few issues in the riv i just ..the heater control has no display (bulb or just replace)????just a few ?'s


thanks in advance

HVAC head problems are common to a lot of GM cars, not just the Riviera. The fluorescent display can dim, or go out all together, and the back lighting bulbs can burn out. The soldering inside the units can be inferior. If you have good soldering skills, you may be able to fix it yourself. I used a guy on E Bay to re do mine. I had to send it back to him once, but he stood behind his work even though the 3 month warranty was up. It has been trouble free since.

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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Sat Jun 12, 2010 7:20 pm

If you have a 2nd key for the car, try that one for a while. While dirty contacts would be a more convenient solution, it's also possible the resistor in your current key has drifted out of spec... This system has a low tolerance for error - e.g. my own key measures 2,350 ohms, while the spec is 2,370. That's less than 1% off.

Here's a chart of the possible PassKey II key blank numbers and resister pellet values. I think they used mil-spec, hyper-accurate resistors. According to the chart, the system tolerance is 4%, but my own key is a #8, and less than one percent off spec. Normal "Radio Shack" resistor tolerance values are either 5% or 10%...

There is also a lot more technical info about the system on this page:

http://www.thirdgen.org/vats_passkey_system
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:07 pm

is there a way that i can bypass the security system...mine is factory...by istalling an aftermarket one witch will over ride the factory one?
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:14 pm


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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:19 pm

billythekid7 wrote:
is there a way that i can bypass the security system...mine is factory...by istalling an aftermarket one witch will over ride the factory one?

why?

Albertj
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billythekid7
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:34 pm

I have done everything but when i put my key in the ignition the security system light stays lit and will not let me start the car...
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:50 pm

Did you try cleaning the ignition key's chip? and also clean the keyway? Use a q-tip (cotton swab) dipped in alcohol (dry gas) and clean the metal contacts that are just inside the ignition keyway. Also clean off the chip on the key.

Might solve your problem.

If not - I think the perviously mentioned instructions tell how to bypass the VATS with a common Radio Shack resistor. You might/should pull the code and see what the problem really is. If your ignition switch or keyway are just worn out you'll end up replacing them at some point anyway.

Point is try cleaning the thing first, it is as likely as not to start working like new.

Albertj


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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:03 pm

k i will give it a clean again and see what happens...
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:06 pm

where might i have to go to get a new key cut? a dealer? and about how much?
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:03 pm

billythekid7 wrote:
where might i have to go to get a new key cut? a dealer? and about how much?



As for cutting one, the dealer can figure out the 'chip' from the VIN and cut you a new key.

If I were you I'd reckon whether I needed a new ignition switch or new lock cylinder first. New key won't help if the cylinder's bad.

So - Please tell us why do you need a new key?

Albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Wed Jun 16, 2010 5:45 pm

albertj wrote:
billythekid7 wrote:
where might i have to go to get a new key cut? a dealer? and about how much?

So - Please tell us why do you need a new key?

Albertj

Yes, have you consulted the chart that I linked to, on the previous page?
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:09 am

i just installed a permanent solution. go to newrockies.ca and check it out. this guy created a vats bypass module that he sells. i bought it and put it in and the car started right up. you may have the same underlying problem as me...gm's faulty vehicle anti-theft system. i will post a general heads-up notice in hopes of helping others. thanks, rivren
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PostSubject: Yeah!!! A Solution to Security/No-start/Engine Cut-out   Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:31 am

Hi,

My car was not cranking, cutting out and everything in between. I installed a module I bought from Luca @ newrockies.ca. He is an electronics engineer that developed this module to fix his no-start issue and now sells them via the internet. It appears that GM has had issues with its Vehicle Anti-theft system across all of its product line. If your car will not crank, has a slight delay before it crands, cuts out while driving, the security light comes on and stays on while you drive or stays on after you turn off the car, check newrockies.ca out. My car started right up after installing this part. In fact, to celebrate the removal of the defective Theft Deterent Module (TDM), I went to ACE hardware and had a 99 cent, non-chip key cut and it started my car. I hope GM owners can benefit the way I did and keep there cars/trucks on the road and also avoid the hassle of dealers and mechanics that don't know what to do except guess wrong and charge you alot of money for nothing. Luca charges $180 and it is easy to install. I hope this helps someone.

Rivren
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:27 am

So, instead of fixing the problem, you totally bypassed the Security system. Therefore, I don't have to cut or break anything when I come steal your car. Thanks NewRockies! joy

(in jest of course)
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Fri Jun 18, 2010 2:09 pm

rivren wrote:
Hi,

My car was not cranking, cutting out and everything in between. I installed a module I bought from Luca @ newrockies.ca. He is an electronics engineer that developed this module to fix his no-start issue and now sells them via the internet. It appears that GM has had issues with its Vehicle Anti-theft system across all of its product line. If your car will not crank, has a slight delay before it crands, cuts out while driving, the security light comes on and stays on while you drive or stays on after you turn off the car, check newrockies.ca out. My car started right up after installing this part. In fact, to celebrate the removal of the defective Theft Deterent Module (TDM), I went to ACE hardware and had a 99 cent, non-chip key cut and it started my car. I hope GM owners can benefit the way I did and keep there cars/trucks on the road and also avoid the hassle of dealers and mechanics that don't know what to do except guess wrong and charge you alot of money for nothing. Luca charges $180 and it is easy to install. I hope this helps someone.

Rivren

Someone please remove this spam selling (essentially) a 10-cent resistor in a fancy box

Albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Fri Jun 18, 2010 2:51 pm

This sounds like a problem I've had twice now - twisting the key in the ignition and getting nothing for a couple tries. Then it starts as well as it ever did.

Does anyone know of a GOOD solution to this problem? Paying $180 to lose my security system is ridiculous.

BTW I wonder if this is what happened to Oldsman's Riv?
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Fri Jun 18, 2010 2:58 pm

Jack the R wrote:
This sounds like a problem I've had twice now - twisting the key in the ignition and getting nothing for a couple tries. Then it starts as well as it ever did.

Does anyone know of a GOOD solution to this problem? Paying $180 to lose my security system is ridiculous.

BTW I wonder if this is what happened to Oldsman's Riv?

Jack have you ever replaced your ignition switch?
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Fri Jun 18, 2010 3:00 pm

The cheapest way to start is to install the resistor in the wire that feeds the Pas-Key system.
Remember VATS and Pas-Key are two different systems.

There is something written on here about how to go about it, it really is easy and only cost you the price of the resistor at Radio-Shack to try it.

If it works, youv'e saved a bunch of money and you won't have to worry about the system again.

If the resistor doesn't fix it, try the ignition switch itself. Another relatively easy and inexpensive job to do.


Last edited by Rickw on Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Fri Jun 18, 2010 3:03 pm

Well I bet you still have the factory radio, loose the radio and your security problems will go away the problem that everyone is having with the start system is because the security sys is locking out the starter or at least trying to once you replace the radio you take away that part of the security system.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Fri Jun 18, 2010 3:05 pm

I thought once you remove the radio, you interrupt the Security System and have to add something to keep that connection????
I don't know for sure as I have not had to chase a problem through the radio before.
I do understand that the security system is tied into it though. Just never studied the wiring diagram for that circuitry.


Last edited by Rickw on Fri Jun 18, 2010 3:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Fri Jun 18, 2010 3:09 pm

Jack the R wrote:
BTW I wonder if this is what happened to Oldsman's Riv?
Oldsman had some of the brightest 3800 minds go over his whole car individually and in groups over a long period of time.
They did not take the lack of diagnosis lightly.
If it were a security system problem they would have found it.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Fri Jun 18, 2010 3:10 pm

I have replaced the radio on two diff cars because of this very reason one was a 94 cutlass supreme convertible, I fought with that thing for over a year before I fig out it was the radio, I put a pioneer radio in and a mod for the steering wheel controls and my problems went away.
the second car was a 95 Buick regal with the 3.8 same thing was going on and I took the radio out and put a Sony in and the problem went away
and now the 95 riv that I have now has a pioneer radio in it and I have now problems.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Fri Jun 18, 2010 3:13 pm

Jack the R wrote:
This sounds like a problem I've had twice now - twisting the key in the ignition and getting nothing for a couple tries. Then it starts as well as it ever did.
The difference with his car and yours is, I believe you are not getting the continuous Security Light after your car starts.
That would leave me to want to troubleshoot or easily eliminate the Pas-Key with the resistor or as Deekster mentioned, the ignition switch itself.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Fri Jun 18, 2010 3:14 pm

Well I can give you another instance my brother bought a 2002 camaro running gear to put in his 54 chevy truck and after he had everything installed it wouldn't start at all and he played around with it for a couple of weeks and then we were talking one night about it and a light came on in my head and I asked him if he installed the radio and he said no and I told him that it won't start without it so he called some guy in ct and he told him I was right and to send him the pc and he would reprogram the pc to run without the security and when he got it back it started right up still with out the radio.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security   Fri Jun 18, 2010 3:20 pm

I will have to study the wiring diagrams of the complete Security System and how that interconnects with the radio system.
I know it does, and have heard what you are saying before, I, just out of curiosity want to look at all that on the wiring diagrams so I can understand it better and speak somewhat intelligently if should come up again or happen to my car.
Thanks for the heads up.
I can read and understand blueprints / wiring diagrams much easier than not.
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