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Bushytea
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Name : Mike
Location : Texas
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Battery Light Empty
PostSubject: Battery Light   Battery Light EmptySat Dec 20, 2008 4:47 pm

I have searching around the board and found many threads with this but I have none of the symptoms the other members have.

My battery light comes on a few seconds after starting the car and never goes off. However the battery and alternator seem to test out fine as both have the correct amount of voltage. The car has no issues starting after sitting and also will never die if running for awhile.

I assume it might be a ground or a wire somewhere? Anybody know the best place to look for this issue?

Thanks to everybody who has helped out so far with previous issues. I still have multiple things to fix but this one is annoying lol.

Mike
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Rickw
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Name : Rick
Location : Lancaster, MA
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Battery Light Empty
PostSubject: Re: Battery Light   Battery Light EmptySat Dec 20, 2008 5:05 pm

1) What year is your car?

2) When you turn the ignition switch to RUN position (Not Start) does the light come on then go off after normal bulb test?

3) You said system voltage is normal while running, correct? How many volts?
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Bushytea
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Name : Mike
Location : Texas
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Battery Light Empty
PostSubject: Re: Battery Light   Battery Light EmptySat Dec 20, 2008 5:50 pm

Sorry, I forgot to add the year in the post. I do know that there is a VATS delete box installed which the previous owner did.

1) 1995

2) When I turn the key to the RUN position the light does not go off. Actually the Voltage, Oil, Security and SES light all stay on until started. Once started they all go off then the voltage light comes back on.

3) Voltage is at a steady 14.0 while running

Thanks!
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Rickw
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Name : Rick
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Battery Light Empty
PostSubject: Re: Battery Light   Battery Light EmptySat Dec 20, 2008 6:09 pm

In my 1998 Manual the next step in troubleshooting the problem is:
1) Turn Ign switch to LOCK

2) Disconnect PCM connector

3) Turn Ign switch to Run.

Did the charge indicator remain on after the normal bulb check? Yes or No

I have a problem following this though because your car is not passing the normal bulb test.
When you turn key to run all the various lights in the IP should come ON then go OFF after a number of seconds. That is the bulb check. Your car isn't doing that to start with, so following this troubleshooting guide is a waste of time. Need to figure out why all bulbs stay on until you start the car. I'm afraid my 1998 wiring and troubleshooting guide might not be correct for a 1995.
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Rickw
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Name : Rick
Location : Lancaster, MA
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Battery Light Empty
PostSubject: Re: Battery Light   Battery Light EmptySat Dec 20, 2008 6:17 pm

What does the VATS delete box do?
What is it deleting and could this be the source of problems?
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Bushytea
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Name : Mike
Location : Texas
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Battery Light Empty
PostSubject: Re: Battery Light   Battery Light EmptySat Dec 20, 2008 6:21 pm

I am not 100% on what all it deletes. I thought it was there only to delete the VATS part of the system. Basically where you do not have to have the key with the little chip in it anymore to start the car.

Is the PCM the box that is under the hood on the driver side? Haven't really looked for the PCM but saw what looked to be one when changing out the valve covers.


Last edited by Bushytea on Sat Dec 20, 2008 6:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Rickw
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Name : Rick
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Battery Light Empty
PostSubject: Re: Battery Light   Battery Light EmptySat Dec 20, 2008 6:27 pm

On my car the PCM is under the right hand side of the instrument panel, behind glove box. But I think earlier years they were in different locations. I'm not 100% sure though.
We really need a 1995 Manual.
Anybody out there have the FSM for the 95 that can help out here.
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Bushytea
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Name : Mike
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Battery Light Empty
PostSubject: Re: Battery Light   Battery Light EmptySat Dec 20, 2008 6:48 pm

Well the PCM is behind the glove box so that is in the same spot.

However where exactly during the key turn does it do the bulb test?

When my key is off (key can come out of ignition), if I turn it once a few lights come on, then go off including the voltage light. If I go one more turn that is when all the lights come on and those lights before do not go off. Then of course I turn it and it starts.

Example:
Key Off
Turn to Click One: Few lights come on then go off
Turn to Click Two: All lights come on, Voltage, Oil, Security and SES lights all stay on
Turn to Start

Maybe it was my mistake on the putting the key into the run position. If the run position is that first click then I went past that earlier and they do go off then.

So maybe I sent us down a wrong path by not having the key in the right position.
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Rickw
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Battery Light Empty
PostSubject: Re: Battery Light   Battery Light EmptySat Dec 20, 2008 7:00 pm

I just went out and checked my car and it has the two positions also. I was never aware of that. DUH.
Anyway, lets go back to the procedure;
1) Engine Off
2) Ignition in Locked Position
3) Disconnect PCM Connector
4) turn Ignition key to "Run"
5) Is voltage indicator still ON?
Try this and see what happens.
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Bushytea
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Name : Mike
Location : Texas
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Battery Light Empty
PostSubject: Re: Battery Light   Battery Light EmptySat Dec 20, 2008 7:07 pm

The battery light would come on and go off on the first position before unplugging but not in the second position.


PCM Unplugged:
First position worked the same as before. Light came on and went off

Second position the voltage light comes on but it does go off now. However the security, oil and traction off lights are all still on.
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Rickw
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Name : Rick
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Battery Light Empty
PostSubject: Re: Battery Light   Battery Light EmptySat Dec 20, 2008 7:11 pm

O.K. we are only concerned with voltage light for now, not all the other ones.
Let me read some more about where to go next.
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Rickw
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Battery Light Empty
PostSubject: Re: Battery Light   Battery Light EmptySat Dec 20, 2008 7:17 pm

These are all the things the troubleshooting guide calls for in this order;
1) Check Red wiring between PCM and Alternator for an open or short to ground.
2) Check connections at Alternator
3) Disconnect Battery Thermistor connector. ( that is small wire coming off battery positive terminal, there will be a connector in the line for the thermistor which measures for battery overtemp.
4) Using fused jumper, connect terminals "A" and "B" of the body harness ( No Clue)
5) Is voltage indicator still ON ?
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Bushytea
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Name : Mike
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Battery Light Empty
PostSubject: Re: Battery Light   Battery Light EmptySat Dec 20, 2008 7:22 pm

Thanks Rick,

It got dark here and temp is dropping so I will go through some of those things tomorrow and give an update on what I find. I might try to look for an obvious break or short tonight though.

Thanks again,
Mike
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Rickw
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Battery Light Empty
PostSubject: Re: Battery Light   Battery Light EmptySat Dec 20, 2008 7:27 pm

Your welcome, Let me know if you need more help tomorrow. I'm getting a little burnt out tonight. I'll try and figure out the Term A and B from the Body Harness part.
Goodnight.
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Rickw
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Name : Rick
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Battery Light Empty
PostSubject: Re: Battery Light   Battery Light EmptySat Dec 20, 2008 7:44 pm

A bad battery thermistor will cause this problem. Thermistor is attached to Battery Pos cable at the battery.
Try bypassing it or replacing. Measure resistance, check for open, etc. Check the easiest thing first.
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Bushytea
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Name : Mike
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Battery Light Empty
PostSubject: Re: Battery Light   Battery Light EmptySat Dec 20, 2008 9:14 pm

Well that would seem to be the problem Rick.

That connector is so corrodied that it will not even come apart and actually got so bad that 2 wires on one side just broke off the connector.

Would the best way to fix this be to just cut the connectors off and just connect the wires directly? Really don't see the different unless I needed to change the positive battery cable.
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Rickw
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Name : Rick
Location : Lancaster, MA
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Battery Light Empty
PostSubject: Re: Battery Light   Battery Light EmptySat Dec 20, 2008 9:20 pm

Yes, thats the quick fix. Make sure you strip insulation and are able to cut back wires until there isn't any corroded wires remaining. You may have to splice some new wire if the corrosion has worked it's way up the wires.
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1995 Riv
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Name : Don
Location : Cols OH
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Battery Light Empty
PostSubject: Re: Battery Light   Battery Light EmptySat Dec 20, 2008 9:37 pm

1995 with ign in run lights will stay on. Check rear fuse block for BATT THER 10 amp fuse, IGN 3 60 amp fuse, and I/P 1 15 amp fuse. Instrument panel fuse block CRANK 10 amp fuse. If stil having problem check the above glad Rick was right there to help you.
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Bushytea
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Name : Mike
Location : Texas
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Battery Light Empty
PostSubject: Re: Battery Light   Battery Light EmptySun Dec 21, 2008 5:29 pm

Thanks for the advice and tips guys.

Fuses I go through as one of the very first things when I buy a car from someone. Cant say how many times the old owners think something is totally wrong and its just a few fuses.

However in this case it was that horribly corroded connectors. I never could get them to come apart so I cut the connectors off and just spliced them together. Works great now with no battery light after start up.

On another note, my traction off light comes on only after reaching a certain speed. It was around the 40-45 mph mark. Then once that light comes on the button won't turn the traction control back on. You just have to drive with it that way until you turn the car off and start it again. I would assume its a hub problem? but I am sure thats an expensive guess lol.

Thanks!
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Rickw
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Name : Rick
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Battery Light Empty
PostSubject: Re: Battery Light   Battery Light EmptySun Dec 21, 2008 5:34 pm

1) Does the light come on every time you drive the car or is the problem random?

2) Does it come on at the same approximate speed every time?
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deekster_caddy
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Name : Derek
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Battery Light Empty
PostSubject: Re: Battery Light   Battery Light EmptySun Dec 21, 2008 7:12 pm

What connectors were corroded? The positive post on the alternator?
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Rickw
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Name : Rick
Location : Lancaster, MA
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Battery Light Empty
PostSubject: Re: Battery Light   Battery Light EmptySun Dec 21, 2008 7:15 pm

The connector going to the Thermistor at the Pos BAT terminal.
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albertj
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albertj

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Battery Light Empty
PostSubject: Re: Battery Light   Battery Light EmptySun Dec 21, 2008 7:56 pm

Mike - it might be a bum connector, it's worth just looking at the ABS wires under the car, wheel by wheel to see what the connectors and wires look like. Also watch out for brittle/broken wires especially in the fronts, which you can find by flexing the wires between your fingers and feeling for breaks beneath the insulation if they don't look busted.

Albertj
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Bushytea
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Name : Mike
Location : Texas
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Battery Light Empty
PostSubject: Re: Battery Light   Battery Light EmptySun Dec 21, 2008 10:19 pm

Well, I guess it is kind of random to a point.

Took the car out and did it about 5 times and each time the light comes on between the 30mph and 45mph point. Couple of times at 35mpg, another at the 40mph mark or so. So it it does not come on the exact same times as the time before.

As for does it come on everytime, so far everytime I test drive the car it has come on.

Thanks,
Mike
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Rickw
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Name : Rick
Location : Lancaster, MA
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Battery Light Empty
PostSubject: Re: Battery Light   Battery Light EmptySun Dec 21, 2008 10:29 pm

Sounds more like a faulty wheel speed sensor since the problem repeats itself at speed and resets after shutting down. Which makes sense because the fault is not there below a certain speed. Once driven past the fault speed the system will keep the light on until you shut off power.
Unfortunately the only way I know how to find out which sensor is bad is to drive the car with a Tech 2 or other scanner that can decipher ABS/TC problems while driving.
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