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 FAQ: P0341 Camshaft Position Sensor (Cam Sensor / Timing Chain)

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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: P0341 Camshaft Position Sensor (Cam Sensor / Timing Chain)   Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:34 am

Since the problem began after changing the rockers and whatever else you did. Go back through your steps and find where you could have disturbed a wire or wire connector.
You mentioned removing the belts, did you replace them or just remove tension on them.?
Did you double check your ignition wires (spark plug wires) for proper install?
Did you replace spark plugs when you did the job? It's always possible that you have a bad plug or two, they also crack very easily on installation and you may not have noticed it.
Now that the ticking is gone (lifters pumped back up) does it feel like the engine is skipping or misfiring at all.
A misfire will cause all the symptoms you describe including the traction control light.
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L67
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: P0341 Camshaft Position Sensor (Cam Sensor / Timing Chain)   Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:08 am

I only detensioned the accessory drive belt but i'm hoping i may have bumped the sensor while doing that. The wires are also on the coils correctly and i didn't change plugs either. On my short drive last night it didn't seem to be misfiring but I'll have to confirm that today with my scans. Are the only vital wires for this problem from the ICM to PCM, and ICM to Cam sensor?
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: P0341 Camshaft Position Sensor (Cam Sensor / Timing Chain)   Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:28 am

I'll have to look at the wiring diagram for you.
But off the top of my head the spark plug wires are important to this issue also and when removing them from the plugs they can break internally and cause a problem.
I'll look at the FSM wiring diagram and post again soon.
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: P0341 Camshaft Position Sensor (Cam Sensor / Timing Chain)   Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:21 pm

Travis,
Can you copy the diagnostic chart from Alldatadiy for code P0341 and post it here. That is the info he needs and I can't seem to be able to copy it and paste it on here. I know you know how to do it though. I'm clueless and frustrated with trying to do it.
The 1998 and 96 should be the same or at least close enough to troubleshoot the problem.
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L67
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: P0341 Camshaft Position Sensor (Cam Sensor / Timing Chain)   Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:46 pm

Rickw wrote:
I'll have to look at the wiring diagram for you.
But off the top of my head the spark plug wires are important to this issue also and when removing them from the plugs they can break internally and cause a problem.
I'll look at the FSM wiring diagram and post again soon.

If i scan today and have little or no misfires does that rule out the plug wires? Or would a plug not firing not register as a misfire?
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: P0341 Camshaft Position Sensor (Cam Sensor / Timing Chain)   Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:52 pm

L67 wrote:
If i scan today and have little or no misfires does that rule out the plug wires? Or would a plug not firing not register as a misfire?
You should not have any misfires at all. Any misfires, even intermittent, will be picked up by the PCM and recorded in history or trigger a fault.


Last edited by Rickw on Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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L67
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: P0341 Camshaft Position Sensor (Cam Sensor / Timing Chain)   Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:53 pm

Rickw wrote:
L67 wrote:
If i scan today and have little or no misfires does that rule out the plug wires? Or would a plug not firing not register as a misfire?
You should not have any misfires at all. Any misfires, even intermittent, will be picked up by the PCM and trigger a fault.

So if i have some should they be attributed to a faulty plug wire? And this is something that would trigger the P0341 rather than a multiple misfire code?
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: P0341 Camshaft Position Sensor (Cam Sensor / Timing Chain)   Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:27 pm

Quote :
If i scan today and have little or no misfires does that rule out the plug wires? Or would a plug not firing not register as a misfire?
You can have misfires repeatedly and not trip a DTC or SES, to the point that you can feel the miss and the PCM won't record a fault. It's got to be pretty bad before it throws a code.

I don't see any correlation between bad wires/plugs and a P0341. This says camshaft position sensor, so unless you have symptoms pointing at an ignition problem, that's probably what it is.

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3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
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EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: P0341 Camshaft Position Sensor (Cam Sensor / Timing Chain)   Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:33 pm

I'll bow out at this point....as I obviously don't know what I'm doing.
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L67
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: P0341 Camshaft Position Sensor (Cam Sensor / Timing Chain)   Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:16 pm

AA wrote:
Quote :
If i scan today and have little or no misfires does that rule out the plug wires? Or would a plug not firing not register as a misfire?
You can have misfires repeatedly and not trip a DTC or SES, to the point that you can feel the miss and the PCM won't record a fault. It's got to be pretty bad before it throws a code.

I don't see any correlation between bad wires/plugs and a P0341. This says camshaft position sensor, so unless you have symptoms pointing at an ignition problem, that's probably what it is.

Alright so it seems i should focus my attention to the wires from the ICM to PCM and to the cam sensor. And I think we can all agree that the sensor didn't just crap out, and that i must have moved some wires or soemthing while accessing the VC's correct?
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: P0341 Camshaft Position Sensor (Cam Sensor / Timing Chain)   Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:27 pm

It would make sense, if you were working in that area. I agree, it's hard to believe the sensor just failed at the same time. Have you opened the valve covers to check that all of the rockers are working as they're supposed to?

Rick, I'm just going from an experience I had where my wires were causing a major miss under boost. The PCM never reported a thing.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


Last edited by AA on Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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L67
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: P0341 Camshaft Position Sensor (Cam Sensor / Timing Chain)   Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:29 pm

AA wrote:
It would make sense, if you were working in that area. Have you opened the valve covers to check that all of the rockers are working as they're supposed to?

I dont remember disconnecting those specific wires, only the plug wires. I havent opened up the VC's to check but they seem to be running smoothly. I really dont wanna have to open up the rears again frown
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: P0341 Camshaft Position Sensor (Cam Sensor / Timing Chain)   Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:32 pm

I understand that. I wouldn't either. By 'running smoothly' we can assume you mean the ticking is gone, and no missfires that you can feel. Have you tested at WOT?

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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L67
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: P0341 Camshaft Position Sensor (Cam Sensor / Timing Chain)   Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:34 pm

AA wrote:
I understand that. I wouldn't either. By running smoothly we can assume the ticking is gone, and no missfires that you can feel. Have you tested at WOT?

The ticking was gone last night and seemed to run normally. I havent taken it to WOT yet since I wasn't sure if this code could cause serious issues but from what i understand the biggest problem resulting from it is stalling and difficulty to start the car.
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: P0341 Camshaft Position Sensor (Cam Sensor / Timing Chain)   Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:20 am

Matt,
How did you make out, Any update with your problem?
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L67
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: P0341 Camshaft Position Sensor (Cam Sensor / Timing Chain)   Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:34 am

Rickw wrote:
Matt,
How did you make out, Any update with your problem?

Nothing new yet as my Powrtuner was acting up again today. Took her for a spin today and it seemed to run alright, did a few WOT runs and such but i cant tell if its running any differently or if its just in my head. Tomorrow I'm gonna stop by my friends house and her dad who is a mechanic with a decent scan tool is gonna take a look at it to see if anything further can be determined.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: P0341 Camshaft Position Sensor (Cam Sensor / Timing Chain)   Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:37 am

Excellent, always good to have a second set of eyes and another professional opinion.
Good Luck with it.


Last edited by Rickw on Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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L67
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: P0341 Camshaft Position Sensor (Cam Sensor / Timing Chain)   Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:38 am

Rickw wrote:
Excellent, always good to have a second set of eyes another professional opinion.
Good Luck with it.

Thanks, I really want this problem to go away, especially since it seems to be of the worst kind, electrical mad
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: P0341 Camshaft Position Sensor (Cam Sensor / Timing Chain)   Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:33 pm

Small update, went to my friend's house to let her dad taker a look at it and although his scanner didn't find anything else out, he did notice that the Cam Sensor Plug was a little bit wet. I figure it was from removing that coolant pipe from the tensioner assembly. So he was able to unclip it and clean it off, but wasn't able to plug it back in because he was wearing gloves since the engine was hot. This seems like a pretty good explanation for the problem and I'll try to get it plugged in in the coming days and hope it solves the issue.
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L67
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: P0341 Camshaft Position Sensor (Cam Sensor / Timing Chain)   Sat Aug 22, 2009 7:17 pm

Well after cleaning it and plugging it back in its still throwing the code. I also tried to reroute the plug wires since i read online that they can cause electrical interference but that didn't help either. After reading my FSM it says that the engine disables its ability to diagnose misfires when this code is activated so the motor may be missing even though the scans dont show it, although it seems to run pretty smooth. Maybe some of the plug wires were damaged when they were disconnected but I wasn't rough with them or anything... At this point i guess I'm going to have to do some voltage testing between the ICM, PCM and sensor as the troubleshooting table says. If anyone else has any other simpler suggestions of something I may have done while moving the wires around it would be appreciated before I move into the more complicated things.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: P0341 Camshaft Position Sensor (Cam Sensor / Timing Chain)   Sun Aug 23, 2009 1:00 pm

Alright I'm going to investigate the plug wires since it seems reasonable that i damaged them especially since they're so old. Stay tuned.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: P0341 Camshaft Position Sensor (Cam Sensor / Timing Chain)   Sun Aug 23, 2009 4:24 pm

Seems like plug 4 isnt firing as evenly as the rest so its time for new wires...
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: P0341 Camshaft Position Sensor (Cam Sensor / Timing Chain)   Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:01 pm

Well i put new plug wires on in an attempt to clear my P0341 code but it didn't work. After installation i went for a ride with my DHP and scanned for misfires. Cyl # 2 and 5 seemed to be misfiring the most but the "total misfires" parameter seemed to jump all over the place. I also only gathered this data from watching the scan in real time as my log export wasn't saving my logs correctly. I'm wondering if i should trust these misfires i witnessed in real time or not. Would it be unreasonable to believe that the #2/5 coil is bad since they share? Also these are some of the things on the engine that checked out good:

Cam Magnet is good
Cam Sensor is good
Coils were tested and received an "ok"
Pulled crank/cam sensor harness and ignition control module to check for faulty wiring and found none
Grounds G101 and G100 are ok

The next thing I've been told to do is check the wiring from the Ignition Control Module to the PCM, as well as the wires from the crank to cam behind the harmonic balancer.

Any other easier suggestions are welcome hi
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: P0341 Camshaft Position Sensor (Cam Sensor / Timing Chain)   Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:19 pm

When you say coils were tested and received an OK, how were they tested?
A coil can test good using an ohm meter on the primary and secondary side, but while operating at temp and under a load it can fail or produce weak or intermittent spark.
It is a bit curious that the coil shares the two cylinders that are acting up.
Did you try swapping coils around to see if the misfire moves with the current #2/5 coil.?
If the problem moves with the coil then it is obvious whats wrong.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: P0341 Camshaft Position Sensor (Cam Sensor / Timing Chain)   Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:31 pm

Rickw wrote:
When you say coils were tested and received an OK, how were they tested?
A coil can test good using an ohm meter on the primary and secondary side, but while operating at temp and under a load it can fail or produce weak or intermittent spark.
It is a bit curious that the coil shares the two cylinders that are acting up.
Did you try swapping coils around to see if the misfire moves with the current #2/5 coil.?
If the problem moves with the coil then it is obvious whats wrong.

The coil was tested with an ohm meter so maybe it is faulty as you described. I will try to swap the 2/5 coil around and well as fix my log export to try to get a reliable scan with concrete misfire numbers. Thanks.
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