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 FAQ: P0341 Camshaft Position Sensor (Cam Sensor / Timing Chain)

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al_roethlisberger
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Name : Al Roethlisberger
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: P0341 Camshaft Position Sensor (Cam Sensor / Timing Chain)   Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:57 am

Quote :
I WROTE YESTERDAY: Well, I can confirm that the infamous black wire exists in the 1995 Series 1 SC.  It is located in the lower left corner of the firewall harness block, and is black with white stripe.  It terminates in the camshaft position sensor connector's center pin.

However, it appears that my black wire is not broken.  I was able to run a continuity test and impedance test from the center pin of the camshaft position sensor connector to the "black wire" pin in the firewall harness block with no drops even with moving the harness/wire around extensively.  So unfortunately so far I am not finding that the wire is the problem.

But I'm still getting the P0341 DTC so that only leave a few options since I've already replaced the camshaft position sensor.

I'll have to check if the inductive magnet is still in place or not.

And I'll need to check the continuity of the wiring from the firewall to the PCM.  I may even swap out the PCM itself since I have a spare.

BTW, does anyone know what the other two wires in the camshaft position sensor do and where they run? There are three wires in the sensor connector. These two wires are on either side of the center "black wire" pin.



Just ignore what I wrote above.  I think I misidentified a black/white wire as the infamous "black wire" and so my testing is invalidated.  The black/white wire did trace via continuity to the cam sensor connector, but that may be ground versus signal.

After consulting my FSMs for the 1995 Riviera, I think I've got some more tracing to do.

I did swap out to my spare PCM, but the result was the same.  So the PCM doesn't seem to be at fault.

The FSM starts troubleshooting with pin RB9 on the PCM red harness which should read 5V with the key on, and all three (blue, white, red) PCM harnesses disconnected.  My pin RB9 is not reading 5V, so the broken black wire issue is still a possibility.

Unfortunately a huge thunderstorm blew in just as I figured this out, and now we're approaching sunset, so it doesn't look like I'll be doing any more troubleshooting today.

I'll update as I learn more.


Last edited by al_roethlisberger on Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:37 pm; edited 2 times in total
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LARRY70GS
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: P0341 Camshaft Position Sensor (Cam Sensor / Timing Chain)   Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:14 am


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98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
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al_roethlisberger
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Name : Al Roethlisberger
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: P0341 Camshaft Position Sensor (Cam Sensor / Timing Chain)   Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:30 am

LARRY70GS wrote:
Look in the FSM.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/95-1995-Oldsmobile-Aurora-and-Buick-Riviera-service-shop-manual-used-Two-volumes/152572239100?hash=item2386039cfc:g:ZvgAAOSwlndZMzbU&vxp=mtr

Yeah, that's on my list to do today as well. I have the FSMs for the 1995, but thought I'd just ask.

My assumption is that the other two wires provide power and ground, but will see.

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al_roethlisberger
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Name : Al Roethlisberger
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: P0341 Camshaft Position Sensor (Cam Sensor / Timing Chain)   Sun May 06, 2018 12:02 pm

OK, thought I'd provide an update.  After driving the car for about a week with no issues, I think it is safe to say this problem is fixed.

So short story; it was the Ignition Control Module.  Replaced with a genuine AC Delco ICM, along with new AC Delco wires and coils, and new Autolite iridium plugs and the misses under hard acceleration and P0341 code is no longer being set.


I can confirm that the 1995 SC has the same often troublesome black wire in the lower left corner of the large firewall harness connector, but in my case it wasn't broken... yet.  So that wasn't my problem this time.  But I also can confirm that wire is under undue stress and is probably why it does break for many owners.  I don't think it is an issue of a bad batch of brittle or defective wire though, although that is certainly a possibility.  I think it is more likely that the wire's location relative to the harness loom and the connector put much of the stress and bending on that one wire when the engine moves.  Over time this breaks the wire.  I noticed that one black wire was a lot shorter and had a fair amount of tension on it as compared to the other wires in the bundle/connector.  Perhaps a good preventative measure would be to proactively extend the length of that wire.

In my case, we'd had ignition problems before and didn't have the time for DIY so took it to our local shop, which I think turned out to be a mistake.  They changed our ICM twice in the last few years (which should have been a clue since ICMs should last the life of the car), and I found two things that indicated they really didn't do the job right.  First, the ICM they used was a "store brand" ICM which probably wasn't the root cause, but I've read enough reviews of off-brand ICMs only lasting a few months to a year, that didn't build confidence.

And upon pulling the plugs, I found they were in terrible shape, and likely were the same copper plugs that I installed years ago.  You might say that is my fault, however I was fairly sure the shop had (or would have) checked the plugs, coils and wires when the ICMs failed previously.  Now I'm not so sure they did, and that's what probably killed the ICMs.  So, key (and perhaps obvious) point, check your plugs.

I had reached this point after tracing and testing all the relevant wires per the FSM.  All traced and tested good, so that indicated either a PCM or ICM issue.  I had a spare PCM, and trading that out didn't help.  So that left the ICM.

So, I just went ahead and refreshed the entire ignition set with a new ICM, new wires, and new coils. Genuine AC Delco wires are only about $40, and the AC Delco coils too are about $40 each.  Although the wires looked good, the coils were 23 years old, so thought it was cheap insurance to just replace it all. And the genuine AC Delco ICM was only a little more expensive than the off brand, so again, cheap insurance.
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