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 FAQ: G-Body Suspension Basics

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phillygp676
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PostSubject: FAQ: G-Body Suspension Basics   Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:31 pm

i was wondering what are you guys doing about suspension bcus arent these g bodys? havent really seen anything for them
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Jack the R
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: G-Body Suspension Basics   Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:05 am

phillygp676 wrote:
i was wondering what are you guys doing about suspension bcus arent these g bodys? havent really seen anything for them

Addco makes sway bars that will work. We've had good luck adapting an STS strut tower brace to work in front and back. Ewolfe had custom STBs made that are even better. A few of us have replaced the air shocks with Rancho gas shocks.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: G-Body Suspension Basics   Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:33 am

Jack the R wrote:
phillygp676 wrote:
i was wondering what are you guys doing about suspension bcus arent these g bodys? havent really seen anything for them

Addco makes sway bars that will work. We've had good luck adapting an STS strut tower brace to work in front and back. Ewolfe had custom STBs made that are even better. A few of us have replaced the air shocks with Rancho gas shocks.
yea i was looking at a write on the f250 rancho i was thinking what the hell bcus arent those truck shocks lol ty for the other info tho
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phillygp676
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: G-Body Suspension Basics   Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:33 am

Jack the R wrote:
phillygp676 wrote:
i was wondering what are you guys doing about suspension bcus arent these g bodys? havent really seen anything for them

Addco makes sway bars that will work. We've had good luck adapting an STS strut tower brace to work in front and back. Ewolfe had custom STBs made that are even better. A few of us have replaced the air shocks with Rancho gas shocks.
yea i was looking at a write on the f250 rancho i was thinking what the hell bcus arent those truck shocks lol ty for the other info tho
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: G-Body Suspension Basics   Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:15 pm

Another great suspension mod is to replace the front struts with KYB GR-2s. More a list of suspension write-ups, see this link:

http://rivperformance.editboard.com/brakes-suspension-f6/suspension-handling-write-up-index-t1376.htm

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'98 SC Riviera • 268k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180Ί t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch


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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: G-Body Suspension Basics   Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:52 pm

phillygp676: please tell us what riviera you have, how long you've owned it, and what you like or dislike about the way it rides?

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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: G-Body Suspension Basics   Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:56 pm

Thinking about the Ranchos - yeah sure they are marketed as truck shocks but technically they are shocks that can be made to fit the Riv and have a damping rate on compression and rebound that works out well for some people. They are not my cup of tea, so to speak, because the Ranchos will not compensate at all for loads and the Riv will droop.

What I suspect you may be reacting to is that if your Riv has a stock suspension in good condition and you are driving on country roads (long twisty two lanes) you have noticed that it tends to "bob" like a bass boat on the ocean. If you have a '98 Riviera you can get rid of the bobbing with KYB or Gabriel struts. Monroes pretty much get rid of it too. I do not remember what the strut choices were for the earlier RIvs.

If you drive 'spirited' and you notice that the Riv leans a lot in corners, then the larger Addco sway bars and the STBs are your cup of tea. Fitting the STB in the front is kind of a problem because of the brake reservoir and the hood - but it can be done.

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Jack the R
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: G-Body Suspension Basics   Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:39 am

phillygp676 wrote:
Jack the R wrote:
phillygp676 wrote:
i was wondering what are you guys doing about suspension bcus arent these g bodys? havent really seen anything for them

Addco makes sway bars that will work. We've had good luck adapting an STS strut tower brace to work in front and back. Ewolfe had custom STBs made that are even better. A few of us have replaced the air shocks with Rancho gas shocks.
yea i was looking at a write on the f250 rancho i was thinking what the hell bcus arent those truck shocks lol ty for the other info tho

I bet if you took a ride in my Rancho-equipped Riv you wouldn't be laughing.

The info in the write-up could use updating though since Rancho no longer sells that model of shock. They make a non-adjustable shock that works, but I don't have the part numbers handy.
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phillygp676
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: G-Body Suspension Basics   Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:51 pm

thank you guys for all the support im really just familiar with the wbody's.. and at the time i dont have a riv but i am planning on getting one... thats why i figured i would start looking at the suspenion for these car bcus my buick handled like a boat around turns but my friend that has a buick had the gm performance handleing kit and the improvements on it are just amazing
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Karma
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: G-Body Suspension Basics   Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:32 am

When looking around for info on car handling, this page kept coming up, and I find its a great read every time.

Thought that I would share:
http://www.gwellwood.com/automotive/handling.html

I find its a good overview of everything.

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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: G-Body Suspension Basics   Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:36 pm

Another company that makes suspension parts for the riv is performance suspension techniques, or p-s-t.com (sorry I don't know how to link it). They make polygraphite suspension bushings for many cars (in case you're wondering polygraphite and polyurethane are similar but the graphite supposedly self lubricates and doesn't squeek as much) but unfortunately as of now they only carry an oem kit for the riv. But what they do have, or had as I didn't see it in their latest catalog, are boxed rear control arms, both adjustable and non adjustable. They also carry an assortment of replacement steering parts.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: G-Body Suspension Basics   Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:28 pm

http://www.p-s-t.com/gm.aspx

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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: G-Body Suspension Basics   Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:24 pm

Thanks Larry, that's exactly what I was talking about. Found the catalog and they carry sway bars as well as the complete rear suspension kit. I'm wondering about their fitment charts tho. Anyone know why they would list the rear suspension to fit the 95-96 but not the 97-99. And the opposite for the sway bar, they list it as fitting a 97-99 but have no listing for the 95-96. Makes me wonder but I've used their polygraphite front end rebuild kit on a camaro I had and it worked great with no fitment issues whatsoever and minimal squeak.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: G-Body Suspension Basics   Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:21 pm

there is f..k all for the 95. you have to fab everything yourself. apart from the swaybars and the shock conversion,thats it. oh..and a front strut tower bar.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: G-Body Suspension Basics   Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:39 pm

another good article on suspension:
http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets6.html

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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: G-Body Suspension Basics   Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:41 pm

Excellent, very good stuff.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: G-Body Suspension Basics   Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:52 pm

Information from the Dorman website. Interesting stuff:

What is a Suspension Mount?

Suspension Mounts do one of several different jobs (depending on application):

* Cushions between the strut or shock and the body of the vehicle.
* Cushions between the various components of the suspension linkage of the vehicle.
* Enhances the handling performance of a vehicle.
* Keeps the suspension of a vehicle running smoothly and prevents noise.
* Mount bearings provide smooth and consistent turning as the vehicle is steered.

Like all active rubber parts on a vehicle (belts, hoses, balancers, CV boots, and tires.) Mounts wear out over time.

What is a Strut Mount vs. a Shock Mount? Does a vehicle always have a Mount? What design trends have taken place?

Suspension designs have varied greatly over the past 30 years, affecting the type of mounts used and the failure rates of these mounts. In addition, the trend from passenger cars to trucks and SUVs has also affected this category and increased the number of mount failures.

* Early to Mid 70s - In the traditional RWD designs prior to the mid 70s, shocks and coils were used. Mounting bushings were also often used in these designs. These bushings are failure prone, but are included with replacement shocks.
* Late 70s - In the large-scale transition to fuel efficient FWD vehicles in the late 70s, designers began using the MacPherson Strut. This design is one of the most failure- prone, and includes both the strut mount for load bearing and the bearing for steering.
* Early 90s - Since the early nineties, the switch to trucks and SUVs has resulted in less mount failures because these vehicles use traditional suspensions with shocks that do not use a separate mount.
* Today - SUV consumers have since demanded that the handling of these vehicles be better and many OE designs have switched back to MacPherson Struts. This return to MacPherson Struts has improved the long-term opportunities for this product line.

Why do Suspension Mounts fail? What happens when they do?

* Normal Load Cycling from the vehicle's weight and driving fatigues the rubber in the mount causing failure. A "clunking" noise coming from the suspension when the vehicle goes over bumps is a sign of a failed mount.
* Normal Aging of the mount causes "set" in the mount. This set orients the position of the mount in a loaded state, decreasing its effectiveness. Poor vehicle handling results causing the driver to experience a looser ride as the vehicle tends to throw the riders, rather than hugging the road.
* Salt, Heat, Temperature Cycling, and Exposure to Ozone degrade the natural rubber leading to rubber failure. The failed mount results in noise and poor ride-ability.
* Bearings Wear Out due to normal vehicle weight, vibrations, load cycling, and driver habits such as frequency of steering. Worn bearings cause memory steer, where the vehicle turns in the direction last turned.

Link: http://www.dormanproducts.com/dispstatichtml.aspx?PageName=TPI_websitefaq_suspension_mount.html

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 268k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180Ί t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO • 49k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: G-Body Suspension Basics   Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:08 pm

Understeer vs. Oversteer

Our heavy FWD Rivieras tend to be prone to understeering, as are most cars sold today. This is mainly for safety, but there are some things we can do for more neutral handling, or even to oversteer for some real fun.

Understeer:

• Push, plowing, front tires slide out first.
• Usually slight understeer is safer.



A front wheel skid is when the front wheels of a vehicle lose traction. Cars which are powered by the front wheels tend to suffer from this problem a great deal more than cars with rear wheel drive. This is mainly due to the fact that the front wheels are driving the car and so demand more grip from the front tires than from the rears. Front wheel skids usually occur under heavy breaking, where the front wheels lock up, or when trying to go around a corner too quickly for the road conditions. A front wheel skid is also known as understeer, as the car will typically carry on in a straight direction, regardless of how much steering input you apply.

Ways to correct Understeer:

Raise front tire pressure.
Lower rear tire pressure.
Soften front shocks.
Stiffen rear shocks.
Lower front end.
Raise rear end.
Widen front track.
Install shorter front tires.
Install taller rear tires.
Install wider front tires.
Install narrower rear tires.
Soften front sway bar.
Stiffen rear sway bar.
More front toe out.
Reduce rear toe in slightly.
Increase front negative camber.
Increase positive caster.
Soften front springs.
Stiffen rear springs.
Increase front suspension travel.
Install wider front wheels.
Remove weight from front of vehicle.
Add weight to rear of vehicle.
Increase front wing downforce (high speed).
Reduce front braking force.
____________________________________________________

Oversteer:

• Loose, rear tires slide out first.
• Oversteer can be dangerous, especially at high speeds.



A rear wheel skid occurs when the rear wheels lose traction. This tends to happen either under heavy braking, especially if there is a fault with the rear brakes (which applies to cars with front or rear wheel drive), or more commonly when going around a corner too quickly! In this respect, rear wheel cars tend to suffer from rear wheel skids (also known as oversteer) more than front wheel drive cars, as the rear wheels propel the car, and so put extra demands on the rear tires. When a car oversteers, it will feel like it is trying to “spin” itself around. However, unlike understeer, you still have the ability to control the front wheels. Effective control of the front wheels in this situation can quickly remedy oversteer, but this takes practice.

Ways to correct Oversteer:

Lower front tire pressure.
Raise rear tire pressure.
Stiffen front shocks.
Soften rear shocks.
Raise front end.
Lower rear end.
Reduce front track.
Install taller front tires.
Install shorter rear tires.
Install narrower front tires.
Install wider rear tires.
Stiffen front sway bar.
Soften rear sway bar.
More front toe in.
Increase rear toe in.
Reduce front negative camber.
Reduce positive caster.
Stiffen front springs.
Soften rear springs.
Increase rear suspension travel.
Install wider rear wheels.
Remove weight from rear of vehicle.
Add weight to front of vehicle.
Increase rear wing downforce (high speed).
Reduce rear braking force.

Sources:

http://www.timskelton.com/lightning/race_prep/suspension/corrections.htm

http://www.driversdomainuk.com/advanced-driver/skid-pan-training.shtml

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 268k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180Ί t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO • 49k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: What's the best way to reduce bodyroll?   Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:34 pm

Okay, so my step dad installed a brand new suspension he says is better than stock in my rivvy almost a year ago, and this car just has WAY TOO MUCH BODYROLL FOR ME, seriously.

there are tons of windy ass backroads where I live, and if I'm going down a sharp turn at like 60, my 100+ pound subwoofer gets thrashed around like a ragdoll, as well as anyone in the back seat. and the front seat to some extent. sometimes when I feel like the car is just about to lose traction, it feels like the suspension is unstable, is this my tire walls flexing, or the actual suspension? Iv'e only been driving really for a few months and have less than 10,000 miles behind the wheel, so I could be wrong blaming my suspension for feeling unsafe to corner faster. but I feel confident blaming it for bodyroll.

also, I'm interested in real heavy duty rear sway bars, which I'm thinking will help the terrible weight distribution and improve cornering, and handling. can anyone reccomend a great suspension setup for me and link me to some parts? I'd like it as stiff as possible, because I really hate this soft suspension.

PS: I want to feel safer in my car. if I have to do extreme maneuvers, it would help confidence, knowing my car can corner better. I almost died once avoiding a deer as well as another car, and ended up going offroad, going pretty fast, and ended up cracking my right rear wheel, and I think I damaged my radiator then as well, which is probably why I have to replace it now. =/


Obviously, I'm more careful and slower on the backroads now, but I really don't feel safe driving a car that if shit goes wrong, I know I can die do to limitations of the vehicle :o
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: G-Body Suspension Basics   Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:54 am

A cheap easy mod would be installing a front strut tower brace. You'd really feel a difference around corners, and it really tightens up the handling.


http://rivperformance.editboard.com/Supercharged-3800-Tech-c2/Suspension-Handling-f6/Write-Up-Installing-a-strut-tower-brace-t109.htm
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: G-Body Suspension Basics   Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:23 am

what year is your car?

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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: G-Body Suspension Basics   Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:29 am

97 with an L36
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: G-Body Suspension Basics   Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:26 am

the only thing to do is swap out the springs shocks and sway bars.But those alone wont stop the dread.there is nothing available in the shock dept that is anything close to a performance set up.If anything,the aftermarket shock,Monroe,KYB,are nothing more than a couple clicks up in the stiff territory.most of all,Ya gotta get rid of the OEM rubber bushings.All the horse power in the world wont make you go around a corner faster if you're bushings are slimeing their ass all over the place.
there is so much modification to be done to these cars.
My advise? think hard about priorities.Do you want to go through the challenges to make your Riv better in the suspension dept? because if you do,you are in for a hell of a project.Or you can just leave the Riv the way she is with only sway bars and springs.Those two items will improve the ride.
There is a good book called, CHASSIS ENGINEERING.full of great tips on suspension.
But getting the Riv to handle like a race car is a monumental task.You need $ & welding skills.Or someone who can do it for you.And that means forking over the dough.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: G-Body Suspension Basics   Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:49 am

There is a place down in Alabama called ,PAECO.COM OR PAECO industries.This place will custom fabricate a full set of DELRIN nylon bushings front and back for $35 a piece.ya cant go wrong with that.just contact them and they will tell you all the info you need to get that ball rolling. I might do DELRIN for the fronts,but I have my heart set on Spherical Bearings all the way around.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: G-Body Suspension Basics   Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:56 am

Wait so that strut tower brace won't fit my car?

I don't get it, seems like you implied that it won't :3
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