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 Knock-Off Headers (Pace Setter, Autochrome, Chinese, eBay, etc.)

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T Riley
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PostSubject: Re: Knock-Off Headers (Pace Setter, Autochrome, Chinese, eBay, etc.)   Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:46 pm

sorry buddy... i dont know what to tell you.... maybe plug wire??
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turtleman
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PostSubject: Re: Knock-Off Headers (Pace Setter, Autochrome, Chinese, eBay, etc.)   Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:22 pm

I'm embarassed to be posting this but I definitely had wire numbers 2 & 4 backwards. I think I've actually done this twice now but I can promise it won't happen again.

But I guess we can write this off as a pretty solid symptom-problem ID. Constant popping and no power = incorrect plug wire routing!


Last edited by turtleman on Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Knock-Off Headers (Pace Setter, Autochrome, Chinese, eBay, etc.)   Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:24 pm

Glad you solved that. I was worried the cat had crawled in your down pipe!

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 268k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO • 49k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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T Riley
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PostSubject: Re: Knock-Off Headers (Pace Setter, Autochrome, Chinese, eBay, etc.)   Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:24 pm

turtleman wrote:
I'm embarassed to be posting this but I definitely had wire numbers 2 & 4 backwards. I think I've actually done this twice now but I can promise it won't happen again.

But I guess we can right this off as a pretty solid symptom-problem ID. Constant popping and no power = incorrect plug wire routing!

n00b... you better not have chipped a piston.
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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: Knock-Off Headers (Pace Setter, Autochrome, Chinese, eBay, etc.)   Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:49 am

Yikes! Glad you found it...
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TonySmooth89
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PostSubject: Re: Knock-Off Headers (Pace Setter, Autochrome, Chinese, eBay, etc.)   Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:10 pm

Its ok. I swapped 3 & 5 when i did my plog install.


I knew right away what it was though.
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T Riley
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PostSubject: Re: Knock-Off Headers (Pace Setter, Autochrome, Chinese, eBay, etc.)   Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:13 pm

Pics or it didn't happen wink
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turtleman
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PostSubject: Re: Knock-Off Headers (Pace Setter, Autochrome, Chinese, eBay, etc.)   Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:34 am

It definitely happened and I've got several minor wounds throughout my hands and wrists to proove it.

Photobucket

Photobucket

Photobucket

Photobucket

gtp trans dipstick

Photobucket

Photobucket

Photobucket

header wrapped and RTVed downpipe flex
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BillBoost37
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PostSubject: Re: Knock-Off Headers (Pace Setter, Autochrome, Chinese, eBay, etc.)   Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:36 am

Turtle..it's more common than you know..lol

Been there..done that plenty of times.
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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: Knock-Off Headers (Pace Setter, Autochrome, Chinese, eBay, etc.)   Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:38 am

Looks good! Are those the SSAC headers?

Whenever I plan a job this big, I always have a backup day for resolving little things I didn't think of. No matter how many things I think I thought of (HA) I always miss something, and it's usually something that won't let me drive the car. It took like a month to resolve my transmission issues... supposed to be a 1-day swap.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Knock-Off Headers (Pace Setter, Autochrome, Chinese, eBay, etc.)   Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:38 am

Quote :
No matter how many things I think I thought of (HA) I always miss something,
I've found that taking notes, photos, and doing write-ups helps me to keep track of things better, causing fewer slip-ups. I still make mistakes, but usually I'm more aware of them when a documentation is in progress.

Nice job on the headers, glad you fixed the ignition prob.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 268k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO • 49k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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turtleman
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PostSubject: Re: Knock-Off Headers (Pace Setter, Autochrome, Chinese, eBay, etc.)   Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:37 pm

Besides my silly mistake, the main thing that I missed was I didn't realize that it was going to put my O2 sensor that much farther back from its original location so I ended up cutting and soldering mine and that worked out fine. If I had known about that beforehand, I probably would have just bought the extention harness.

I actually broke my #6 wire while pulling it off that spark plug so I had to get another wire to replace that.

I wasn't really sure about how the DP was going to work out since I already had a Hogan shorty that was welded to the 3" exhaust system but I figured it would be at least close enough to work an adapter or something onto it to have an exhaust system to drive the car with. That was not the case. The headers' downpipe was moved over to the right about an inch or two and was farther down so there was no way that was going to happen. I drove the car with an open downpipe about 15minutes to the exhaust shop that built my exhaust and had a short section of 3" pipe welded between the new header downpipe and the rest of my exhaust. It's hard to explain but with the Hogan being offset that 1 or 2 inches, the original exhaust required a slight "S" bend to accomodate the downpipe and now its exactly straight on so that actually worked out very nicely. I don't love that the bend of this downpipe is now the lowest clearance point under the car now but it's all for the sake of low-restriction so sacrifices are made.

I don't know if this was just me but I had a hell of a time getting the crossover connected to the front and rear headers. When I kind of had it in place, it really didn't seem like it was going to work at all but with some work, I got it in and it looks correct now. If I were to get a lot of money and buy another set of headers, I'd probably go for the TOGs just to have the flanges that are much easier to deal with. The SLP/XSP setup kind of looks better though once you get it together



I dropped about another lb of peak boost now with these headers over my hogan 3" dp with a 3" exhaust and front PEM so they must be doing something right. I can hardly believe how much different the car actually sounds with the headers. I figured it wouldn't make a very noticable difference but it does. In short, everything kind of sounds smoother or less rubbly. I don't know if I prefer it over what it sounded like before but I'm planning on quieting down my exhaust anyway so I'm not too concerned about it either way.


Last edited by turtleman on Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:50 pm; edited 2 times in total
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turtleman
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PostSubject: Re: Knock-Off Headers (Pace Setter, Autochrome, Chinese, eBay, etc.)   Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:43 pm

deekster_caddy wrote:
Looks good! Are those the SSAC headers?

Whenever I plan a job this big, I always have a backup day for resolving little things I didn't think of. No matter how many things I think I thought of (HA) I always miss something, and it's usually something that won't let me drive the car. It took like a month to resolve my transmission issues... supposed to be a 1-day swap.

yes they are SSAC. Let's call them XS or XS power headers though.
It's less gay sounding.

It's a damn good thing I had the next day off because I didn't plan it taking more than the one day. It was 90% done the first day though.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Knock-Off Headers (Pace Setter, Autochrome, Chinese, eBay, etc.)   Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:50 pm

Lol, at least they aren't called BSAC headers!

Interesting to find that there ARE in fact differences between copycat headers, even though they might appear the same. My SLPs dropped right in, with the flex pipe lining right up with the stock exhaust. The crossover fit perfectly, too with no fuss. Pretty easy to install everything in about 6 hours, imo.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 268k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO • 49k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
turtleman
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PostSubject: Re: Knock-Off Headers (Pace Setter, Autochrome, Chinese, eBay, etc.)   Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:07 pm

AA wrote:
Lol, at least they aren't called BSAC headers!

Interesting to find that there ARE in fact differences between copycat headers, even though they might appear the same. My SLPs dropped right in, with the flex pipe lining right up with the stock exhaust. The crossover fit perfectly, too with no fuss. Pretty easy to install everything in about 6 hours, imo.

I didn't ask Travis how much he struggled to get his crossover on when he did his just recently but I'd be interested to know. If he had an easier time with it, we could conclude that the manufacturing tolerances of the knock off version are inferior to the original (big surprise there), or I'm just retarded but I'm leaning towards option A.

The downpipe is designed a little differently on the XS. I don't believe the SLP headers' downpipe has the weird detatchable flangy-like part that's held together with the special clamp that you can see in the picture of the downpipe above does it? My exhaust that is in the car was originally built to fit the hogan so it's not really a fair conparison to a factory system. I reckon there wouldn't have been any issues, at least side-to-side.
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97rivsc
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PostSubject: installing pace setter headers   Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:02 pm

I know a few of you who have installed pacesetter headers before, pretty deekster has. anyway I was wondering from those of you who have done it.......does it bolt up to the stock exhaust? any tips you guys can give me?
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TonySmooth89
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PostSubject: Re: Knock-Off Headers (Pace Setter, Autochrome, Chinese, eBay, etc.)   Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:44 pm

No headers will bolt up to stock exhaust. It will need to be taken to an exhaust shop to be welded to the stock system.

Also i'm pretty sure deekster caddy runs SSAC headers but oldsman105 ran pacesetters.
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PostSubject: Re: Knock-Off Headers (Pace Setter, Autochrome, Chinese, eBay, etc.)   Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:40 am

97rivsc wrote:
I know a few of you who have installed pacesetter headers before, pretty deekster has. anyway I was wondering from those of you who have done it.......does it bolt up to the stock exhaust? any tips you guys can give me?

Pretty deekster, any thoughts? oops

Here are some tips (SLP headers, but similar install):

http://rivperformance.editboard.com/series-ii-engine-transmission-f4/write-up-installing-slp-exhaust-headers-t291.htm

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 268k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO • 49k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: Knock-Off Headers (Pace Setter, Autochrome, Chinese, eBay, etc.)   Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:58 am

I need some mud on my face. Tony's right, you'll need to fit the header outlet to your cat or whatever aftermarket cat you come up with. Good news is that there's plenty of room down there.
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97rivsc
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PostSubject: Re: Knock-Off Headers (Pace Setter, Autochrome, Chinese, eBay, etc.)   Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:58 pm

ok sounds good deek, what size clamps did you use? and did you use the last flange that connects on after the dp?
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: Knock-Off Headers (Pace Setter, Autochrome, Chinese, eBay, etc.)   Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:19 pm

On the XS Autochrome headers I used qyt 2 - 2 1/4" bandclamps for the crossover pipe. Also, bought new Delphi O2 sensor and harness extension as the original will not reach position of O2 sensor in header.
Then I used the piece that comes with the headers and connects with V band on end of downpipe, flanged it to a new 3" high flow Magnaflow Cat, then welded to existing exhaust.
I wrapped header with header wrap and painted before install, worked good with no clearance issues and also bought a new dipstick tube and dipstick from GM (P/N's are listed earlier in this thread) for a GTP I believe.
Also, don't use the header or flange gaskets that come with the headers, they will leak after a short time. Use metal GM exhaust manifold gaskets with the new headers and you won't have any premature exhaust leaks. I also used new ARP header bolts. I bought all the misc stuff except headers from ZZP.
And if you think you are going to need to remove your EGR valve for clearance then get a new gasket for that at your local auto parts store (less than $3.00) I found removing the EGR to provide a little more clearance / space for installing crossover and rear header worth the extra labor.
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PostSubject: Re: Knock-Off Headers (Pace Setter, Autochrome, Chinese, eBay, etc.)   Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:11 pm

You need the band clamps Rickw mentioned. I made my own O2 harness extension out of some trailer light wire, forgot about that oops

I didn't get a dipstick tube - I cut the middle of the old tube out and used a piece of heater hose of the same length in it's place with hose clamps, laid it over to the side safely out of the way. How often do you check your trans fluid? I just pick up the hose when I need to check it, no big deal...

I think Rick covered everything else.
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97rivsc
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PostSubject: Re: Knock-Off Headers (Pace Setter, Autochrome, Chinese, eBay, etc.)   Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:45 pm

I got the prebent tube from zzp, I'm grabbing the clamps tomorrow.
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turtleman
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PostSubject: Re: Knock-Off Headers (Pace Setter, Autochrome, Chinese, eBay, etc.)   Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:46 pm

Did you guys RTV the gaskets up at all?
I'm going to get some new metal gaskets because I just used the ones supplied with the XS headers and the front, at least, seems to leak a tiny bit.
I'd really prefer not to go through the hassle of RTVing the gaskets if I don't need to, especially if I end up replacing the rear gasket.
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97rivsc
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PostSubject: Re: Knock-Off Headers (Pace Setter, Autochrome, Chinese, eBay, etc.)   Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:54 pm

I'm going to RTV the gaskets....
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