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joe's riv
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Name : rob
Location : northern NJ
Joined : 2009-04-13
Post Count : 35
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sluggish 95 riv Empty
PostSubject: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv EmptyMon Apr 13, 2009 3:30 pm

Hi everyone, I am new here, hope you all can help me.

I have a friend Joe that has wanted a 95 Riv for sometime, and recently got one, but its got some problems, and he isnt intro wrenching, and since I built my 70 GS stage 1, he asked me to help, but obviously this is much different.

The car is slow, my diesel dually is faster, and I know these cars should have more get up and go than that.

When you press the gass pedal, it will go, but if you press it too much the car shudders, and doesnt accelerate. I tried fuel injector cleaner and a new airfilter, and it got a little better, but not much.

I am thinking either a dying fuel pump or maybe a MAF......but I am not really familiar with this car. Could you guys help me out? sad

The SES light comes on from time to time, but I cant find the OBD port, and even if icould, I only have a OBD II scanner......
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AA
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AA

Name : Aaron
Age : 42
Location : C-bus, Ohio
Joined : 2007-01-13
Post Count : 18370
Merit : 241

sluggish 95 riv Empty
PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv EmptyMon Apr 13, 2009 3:44 pm

Hi. Rob. Try installing a new set of ignition wires (~$60), and plugs (~$10) if they haven't been changed in a while. Use OEM wires, or a set designed for the supercharged 3800.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
joe's riv
Amateur


Name : rob
Location : northern NJ
Joined : 2009-04-13
Post Count : 35
Merit : 0

sluggish 95 riv Empty
PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv EmptyMon Apr 13, 2009 3:51 pm

well the wires look brand new, I have to pull the plugs and see what they look like. I plan on doing that tonight. Is there a fuel filter other than the sock thats in the tank?
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AA
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AA

Name : Aaron
Age : 42
Location : C-bus, Ohio
Joined : 2007-01-13
Post Count : 18370
Merit : 241

sluggish 95 riv Empty
PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv EmptyMon Apr 13, 2009 4:21 pm

Even if they look new, I suspect the wires. Are the wires original equipment? How many miles are on the car?

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
joe's riv
Amateur


Name : rob
Location : northern NJ
Joined : 2009-04-13
Post Count : 35
Merit : 0

sluggish 95 riv Empty
PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv EmptyMon Apr 13, 2009 4:46 pm

95k on the clock....definatly not OE....I dont remember what brand, I think accel or something like that. I will look when I get home.
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deekster_caddy
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Name : Derek
Age : 48
Location : Reading, MA
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sluggish 95 riv Empty
PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv EmptyMon Apr 13, 2009 4:56 pm

I'd agree with AA here - it sounds like bad plugs or a bad wire to me. Replace them all to start and we'll go from there.

Good luck!
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Rickw
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Name : Rick
Location : Lancaster, MA
Joined : 2008-09-13
Post Count : 6232
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sluggish 95 riv Empty
PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv EmptyMon Apr 13, 2009 5:23 pm

[quote=" Is there a fuel filter other than the sock thats in the tank?[/quote]

Yes it is under the car on the drivers side frame rail in the rear of the car.
Inexpensive and easy to replace, if the line isn't too corroded.
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joe's riv
Amateur


Name : rob
Location : northern NJ
Joined : 2009-04-13
Post Count : 35
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sluggish 95 riv Empty
PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv EmptyMon Apr 13, 2009 6:05 pm

OK.....I was wrong about the wires.....they arent that new. The plugs are champions, but I cant get them out without burning myself. The owner of the car just said do new plugs and wires and dont worry about it. How the hell do you get to the plugs in the back? I think I see why nobody changed the plugs on this thing....

I am also gonna check the fuel filter right now since I already have it on jackstands and am already dirty.
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Rickw
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Name : Rick
Location : Lancaster, MA
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sluggish 95 riv Empty
PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv EmptyMon Apr 13, 2009 6:09 pm

Easier to replace them from underneath the car.
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joe's riv
Amateur


Name : rob
Location : northern NJ
Joined : 2009-04-13
Post Count : 35
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sluggish 95 riv Empty
PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv EmptyMon Apr 13, 2009 6:34 pm

Rick,

Thanks for the heads up about that filter....judging from the corrosion on the housing id say its OE......

heading to autozone now to get a new filter, wires and plugs....what do you guys recomend for plugs and wires for this motor?
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Rickw
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Name : Rick
Location : Lancaster, MA
Joined : 2008-09-13
Post Count : 6232
Merit : 112

sluggish 95 riv Empty
PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv EmptyMon Apr 13, 2009 6:43 pm

My OE plugs were Platinum NGK's, I think. Can't remember because i changed to a Autolite #104. The 104's are a colder plug that is recommended if you've increased boost or reflashed PCM and running a colder thermostat (180*). Otherwise just put recommended heat range plugs in for a stock motor.
For wires I found a set of OEM Packard silicone 7mm
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joe's riv
Amateur


Name : rob
Location : northern NJ
Joined : 2009-04-13
Post Count : 35
Merit : 0

sluggish 95 riv Empty
PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv EmptyMon Apr 13, 2009 9:05 pm

i got ac delco's and some 8mm wires.......what should i gap the plugs too?
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Rickw
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Name : Rick
Location : Lancaster, MA
Joined : 2008-09-13
Post Count : 6232
Merit : 112

sluggish 95 riv Empty
PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv EmptyMon Apr 13, 2009 9:41 pm

Stock settings are .060"
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AA
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AA

Name : Aaron
Age : 42
Location : C-bus, Ohio
Joined : 2007-01-13
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sluggish 95 riv Empty
PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv EmptyMon Apr 13, 2009 10:11 pm

Rob, maybe replace the plugs first to see if that's the problem. Then you could return the wires to the store if they aren't needed. Plugs would be a cheap fix!

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
mdhall1
Member
mdhall1

Name : Matt
Age : 41
Location : New Braunfels, Texas
Joined : 2008-06-15
Post Count : 58
Merit : 1

sluggish 95 riv Empty
PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv EmptyMon Apr 13, 2009 11:41 pm

On my 95 I remove the vacuum box (not sure of the technical term) that is mounted to the firewall and lay on top of the motor. With that box out of the way there is plenty of room.
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joe's riv
Amateur


Name : rob
Location : northern NJ
Joined : 2009-04-13
Post Count : 35
Merit : 0

sluggish 95 riv Empty
PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv EmptyTue Apr 14, 2009 10:00 am

is that what that black rectangular thing is? I thought it was some messed up cup holder joker ....

I figure the wires were only $30....Im just gonna do plugs and wires at the same time.....

Any thoughts on the ac delco"s? Ive used them in my 70 GS 455 with good success....but thats a different animal....Would I be better off running the NGK platinums?

The more I drive this car, the more I think its a combination of bad plugs/ wires and a plugged fuel filter. When you romp on the gas the car shudders and bucks, and it stops as soon as you back off the gas. My gut feeling says its a fuel delivery problem, but Im used to diesels where there are no spark plugs, but I could see how improper combustion would do it too. I have to laugh, the previous owner must have replaced one wire at a time.....6 cylinders....and 3 different kinds of wires....
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AA
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AA

Name : Aaron
Age : 42
Location : C-bus, Ohio
Joined : 2007-01-13
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Merit : 241

sluggish 95 riv Empty
PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv EmptyTue Apr 14, 2009 10:09 am

Bad wires will cause exactly the symptom you're describing - even with no visible cracks. Plugs or coils can do the same, but it's usually the wires. Our supercharged engines behave nothing like diesels or even N/A engines when it comes to spark delivery.

Best wires are fresh OEM, best plugs are Autolite, imo. More on plugs and wires here:

http://rivperformance.editboard.com/series-ii-engine-transmission-f4/which-spark-plugs-wires-should-i-use-t26.htm

A bad fuel filter does more than cause hesitation with our engines. It will cause spark knock and the PCM will cut timing, resulting in a power reduction. It's a totally different feeling than the pulsating you're describing; it could cause audible ping, or it could be silent depending.

Maybe swap out each part one at a time to find out what the real problem is? I've a strong feeling you put fresh wires on and the problem goes away.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
steve314159
Amateur


Name : Steve
Location : Indiana
Joined : 2008-04-18
Post Count : 23
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sluggish 95 riv Empty
PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv EmptyTue Apr 14, 2009 8:24 pm

Definitely don't replace the fuel pump unless you have checked the fuel pressure first. Borrow or buy a $30 pressure guage, much cheaper.
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joe's riv
Amateur


Name : rob
Location : northern NJ
Joined : 2009-04-13
Post Count : 35
Merit : 0

sluggish 95 riv Empty
PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv EmptyWed Apr 15, 2009 10:19 am

Yeah, I REALLY dont want to have to drop the tank.....replacing the fuel pump is gonna be a last resort. I am probably gonna do the plugs, wires and fuel filter tonight if it doesnt rain again.
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steve314159
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Name : Steve
Location : Indiana
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sluggish 95 riv Empty
PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv EmptyWed Apr 15, 2009 10:54 am

Good news if you have to replace the fuel pump - you can remove it from the trunk. Don't have to drop the tank.
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joe's riv
Amateur


Name : rob
Location : northern NJ
Joined : 2009-04-13
Post Count : 35
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sluggish 95 riv Empty
PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv EmptyWed Apr 15, 2009 11:04 am

really????......damn the people at buick have their shit together more so than the rest of GM thats for sure.....
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AA
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AA

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sluggish 95 riv Empty
PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv EmptyWed Apr 15, 2009 11:11 am


_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
joe's riv
Amateur


Name : rob
Location : northern NJ
Joined : 2009-04-13
Post Count : 35
Merit : 0

sluggish 95 riv Empty
PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv EmptySat Apr 18, 2009 6:12 pm

ok....did the plugs and wires today......it sucked.

6 cylinders.... 4 champion plugs, 2 delco's...none of which were gapped right. I replaced all plugs and wires, and took it for a spin, was better, but still slow, and then I noticed something......there is 3 lines that say warning fuel or something like that. 2 of them are fuel lines, but the third was not connected to anything, and it was right next to a solenoid looking thing with an empty port. I remembered when I had no boost in my 6.5 diesel because the boose solenoid was disconnected, so I figured maybe thats what this thing is, so I connected it. Also there was a vaccum line on the same thing that had a really bad connector, so I made a makeshift one out of some surgical tubing and zipties and took it for a ride. I dont know if what I did is right, but man the car moves now. When you romp on the gas it goes...no shuddering or any of that stuff. I can only assume what I did was correct then.....problem is the check engine light is ALWAYS on now, where as before it came and went.......can somone give me a hand here?
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Rickw
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Name : Rick
Location : Lancaster, MA
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Post Count : 6232
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sluggish 95 riv Empty
PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv EmptySat Apr 18, 2009 6:16 pm

Have you downloaded the codes?
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joe's riv
Amateur


Name : rob
Location : northern NJ
Joined : 2009-04-13
Post Count : 35
Merit : 0

sluggish 95 riv Empty
PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv EmptySat Apr 18, 2009 7:25 pm

no, I dont know how to....could you tell me?
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