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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv - Page 2 EmptySat Apr 18, 2009 7:44 pm

http://rivperformance.editboard.com/series-i-scans-tuning-f14/scannng-setup-for-the-1995-riviera-t144.htm
Read this and see if it is of any help.

Also: http://rivperformance.editboard.com/series-i-scans-tuning-f14/actron-scantool-t5.htm
I have one of these scan tools that i use on both OBD1 and OBD2. Gives basic info needed for diagnosis. Bought it on sale at a local auto parts store then got additional cable on-line. Not very expensive, IIRC.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv - Page 2 EmptySun Apr 19, 2009 12:26 am

Quote :
I dont know if what I did is right, but man the car moves now. When you romp on the gas it goes...no shuddering or any of that stuff.
So the stuttering problem has been solved, right? Car runs strong with new wires and plugs. Now it seems you have a new problem. Any chance you unplugged something, or hooked something up wrong? I agree we need to see a scan to know for sure.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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joe's riv
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PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv - Page 2 EmptySun Apr 19, 2009 9:42 am

yes thats correct.....the shuddering is gone.....but I was kind of guessing about the hookup of those hoses. If I did something wrong it would have to be there. All I did with the plugs and wires was one at a time remove them, gap the new ones and replace to make sure I didnt mess up the firing order, but it is pretty straight forward that 1,3,5 are in the front and 2,4,6 are in the back....much easier than the old days of distributors.

That solenoid looking thing had a vacuum line attatched to it that was literally falling apart. I repaired that piece, so Im fairly sure thats where it belonged. Where I kind of guessed was that other line. As I said there were 3 lines, 2 of which were clearly fuel lines going to the injectors, but the third, that was marked the same and in the same group was disconnected. The only port anywhere near where it terminated was where I connected it. I assumed it was a boost solenoid of some kind like on the diesels. The connection was a perfect fit and it did seem to solve my immediate problem.

As I mentioned I have an actron OBD 2 scanner, but im really confused here. Problem #1 is that I cant find the diagnostic port. The second problem is that I have been told this car is NEITHER OBD 1 or 2.....but then again I have had some members tell me they have used an OBD 2 scanner.......I am really lost here.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv - Page 2 EmptySun Apr 19, 2009 10:06 am

Well, at least we've made some progress! See my brief post in your OBD thread.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
joe's riv
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PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv - Page 2 EmptySun Apr 19, 2009 10:34 am

ok, found the port......OBD II scanner plug fits......but all I get is LINK ERROR.....no matter what position the key is in
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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv - Page 2 EmptySun Apr 19, 2009 8:17 pm

You need to find a vacuum line diagram and make sure you hooked them up right. The BBV shouldn't have direct vacuum, it comes from a controller solenoid (at least it does on the SII engines), not sure how it should look on an SI.
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joe's riv
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PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv - Page 2 EmptySun Apr 19, 2009 8:43 pm

ok you kinda lost me.......BBV? I have a vacuum gauge, where should I hook it to?
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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv - Page 2 EmptySun Apr 19, 2009 8:52 pm

Sorry, I thought you hooked the vacuum line up to your boost bypass valve (BBV). That was on your old truck, in reading the post closer. Maybe you hooked up your MAP sensor? Some pictures would help us determine what you did and what you might need to do. Either way, you cleared up a huge vacuum leak, and vacuum is needed to make the boost bypass valve work, so you've not been using your supercharger. As to the check engine light, I don't know if anybody's come up with a working suggestion for the '95.
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Karma
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PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv - Page 2 EmptySun Apr 19, 2009 11:02 pm

If its throwing a light you will want to get it checkd. Mine threw a light before i had a scanner, it was a Quad Drive Module failure, which can be a number of things, but in my case was the Boost Control Solinoid. Costs like 50CAD at the dealer and controls the actutator that moves the boost bypass valve. In my case with it not working correctly and throwing th code, at WOT at best I was making 3psi. Stock you should be 7ish. As far as making the car sluggish, this makes a HUGE difference. So check out that SES light, if its a QDM (4 i think?) failure change the BCS as enjoy the newfound power.

_________________
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joe's riv
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PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv - Page 2 EmptyMon Apr 20, 2009 4:49 pm

sluggish 95 riv - Page 2 DSC_0046

there you go....you can see the 90 degree rubber boot and the vacuum line I fixed with the zip tie and surgical tubing.......
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joe's riv
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PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv - Page 2 EmptyMon Apr 20, 2009 5:05 pm

sluggish 95 riv - Page 2 DSC_0047
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Karma
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PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv - Page 2 EmptyMon Apr 20, 2009 7:31 pm

The set of vaccum lines on the 95 should look like this:
Photobucket
(note above I have a T in for my boost gauge)

Photobucket
Above the Evap solinoid is disconnected as is its power plug, the hose that is disconnected is the same hose that is on the lower left of the square vaccum collector. On the square, left is Evap solinoid, middle goes to a little oneway valve a T , one side to your cruse control acutator, and the other to your big rectangle vaccum box, and right is big hose to brake booster.

Photobucket
And again, just another pic incase you need it. On left side of Square vaccum "gathering" the top hose goes to the top of the T in your supercharger as well as to your transmission modulator. Next hose down goes to the boost acutator. The hose that you see my T tapped into that is second on the tree atached to the SC goes to your fuel pressure regulator.(that is at the back on the series one as oppsed to the front on the series two)

It would be a good idea to buy some vaccum tube of various sizes from an autoparts store and re do any lines that are cracked. Do them one at a time soas not to get confused. Makes a big diff in woren vaccum lines, especually if the one going to the FPR is really cracked.


and don;t worry about anything with the MAP sensor as the 95 DOES NOT have one.

_________________
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joe's riv
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PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv - Page 2 EmptyMon Apr 20, 2009 9:04 pm

wow....damn thats a clean engine.....very nice!

OK well I was right, thats where that 90 degree rubber boot goes.......and the line I repaired was in the right place......but I was only getting an intermittant SES light and as soon as I did the repair, its on all the time.....
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joe's riv
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PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv - Page 2 EmptyTue Apr 28, 2009 12:42 pm

I couldnt find a scan tool to diagnose the SES light, but it doesnt come on that often. I gave the car back to my friend and he is VERY happy with the results, I just wanna thank everyone here for their help, I couldnt have done it without you.....

If anyone is interested, I just added a post about eibach's and KYB's for the same car.....now that she runs good, we gotta get some better handling!.......Thanks again!
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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv - Page 2 EmptyTue Apr 28, 2009 12:49 pm

So what solved the problem?
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joe's riv
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PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv - Page 2 EmptyTue Apr 28, 2009 12:57 pm

well those vacuum lines were discconeected, and I dont think the supercharger was boosting at all.....mixed with cruddy wires and plugs.....I didnt like leaving the SES light on, but it only comes on intermittantly.....my friend said he will have somone scan it when he takes it to the shop to have the struts and springs done ( im NOT doing that ).......
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Z-type
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PostSubject: Pulling slower than I think it should...sluggish Riviera   sluggish 95 riv - Page 2 EmptyThu Jul 16, 2009 9:32 pm

Hi all,

I just got to ride in my '95 for the first time today (only to take it to another garage...no time to enjoy it) and I couldn't help but notice the car doesn't seem to be making the kind of power 225 horses should feel like. I never got to go from a dead stop, but when I got on the gas cruising 35 mph it downshifted fine and started moving fast, like all cars, but it just didn't feel supercharged. The supercharger whine was present, the engine was smooth as hell, but it doesn't feel very powerful. Also, the throttle response is a LITTLE slower than I suspect it should be.

As a sidenote, I won't have the car back until next week due to registration and inspection crap, but in the meantime, anyone else ever experience this? Anyone know what I should look for when I get it back? Please ask any questions to make diagnosing this easier - I want to figure this out...

Thanks,

-Andrew Z
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv - Page 2 EmptyThu Jul 16, 2009 9:36 pm

Have you done any preventive maintenance to the car yet/
Such as changing the fuel filter, air filter, replacing spark plugs, etc.
Check trans fluid condition and level.
These things can make it sluggish when trying to accelerate yet idle ok.
May not be your problem but these are items that should be changed on a regular basis anyway.
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Z-type
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PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv - Page 2 EmptyThu Jul 16, 2009 9:45 pm

Yes all that's been done just days ago. The only thing I have to check on is maybe a clogged air filter. Perhaps it's some kind of vaccuum leak? that seems unlikely since the car runs fantastically...just slow in my opinion. What I'm now thinking is that, from a 35 mph roll, it's not going to accellerate the best there. I've noticed that with many cars I've driven. It's better sometimes to get on it from a slower speed or higher speed. I could be wrong though.
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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv - Page 2 EmptyThu Jul 16, 2009 9:51 pm

How long has it been sitting? Old gas could be causing some KR which will slow you down. Use up that old gas and fill it up with some super, then see what happens!


Last edited by deekster_caddy on Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv - Page 2 EmptyThu Jul 16, 2009 9:57 pm

Yeh, from 35 or 40 mph and being on the gas pedal very lightly will engage the torque converter clutch. That will give you the feeling of sluggishness.
Try tapping the brake pedal when going that speed and see if the TCC disengages, you'll feel it and the RPM's will come up and put you in the power band.
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Z-type
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Z-type

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PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv - Page 2 EmptyThu Jul 16, 2009 10:01 pm

Ah good point Deekster...they did put a little fuel in it and since they were rushing to finish my car, they COULD have skipped the 'premium' part. Hmmmm that never crossed my mind...

I thought I would notice if it had regular fuel in it though...wouldn't the engine run kinda terrible?


Rick - I think that may have been what I did. The only thing is it DID downshift into second and still didn't seem to want to pull as much as I expected. I wish I could investigate further but I can't do that until I get the car back next week...it's making me anxious! Especially when you guys are giving me things to try already.
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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv - Page 2 EmptyThu Jul 16, 2009 10:05 pm

Z-type wrote:
Ah good point Deekster...they did put a little fuel in it and since they were rushing to finish my car, they COULD have skipped the 'premium' part. Hmmmm that never crossed my mind...

I thought I would notice if it had regular fuel in it though...wouldn't the engine run kinda terrible?

I just edited my post to remove the bit about mechanics working on it - I wasn't sure if you just moved the car from storage to another storage, or from a mechanic to another mechanic!

Anyway, if they put regular in it, it will run fine until you put the engine under load. Then it will begin detonation (knock) and the knock sensors will tell the PCM to remove a ton of timing to fight the detonation. We commonly refer to this as KR for Knock Retard. It will kill your performance.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv - Page 2 EmptyThu Jul 16, 2009 10:08 pm

Did you change the air filter? If not, it could give you back the power you're looking for.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
Z-type
Aficionado
Z-type

Name : Andrew Zamiska
Age : 32
Location : Cecil, PA - 25 miles south of Pittsburgh
Joined : 2009-06-29
Post Count : 1427
Merit : 62

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PostSubject: Re: sluggish 95 riv   sluggish 95 riv - Page 2 EmptyThu Jul 16, 2009 10:11 pm

I don't know how long the old gas was sitting in it but it was only 1/4 tank. My mech filled it up to 1/2 so I'll have to ask what he used. I just don't want the engine damaged now. Hoping to dodge a bullet on that one...

AA - Haven't changed the air filter yet. That's the only thing i forgot to remind me mech about (there was a lot to deal with on the car - can't remember everything). I was thinking that might be clogged to a degree. I'll just get a K&N drop-in and put it in as soon as I can.

Anxious to get this thing back! bounce
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