Rear end jumps around over bumps.

The rear of my Riv doesn't seem to take bumps well. It jumps around when going down a bumpy road. It rides great on a smooth road. Is this common to Rivs or is there a problem?

I kind of noticed that myself but I don't know if it's supposed to be that way or my rear suspension is worn out. The other thing is my rear shocks are pumped up with a bit more air than normal. I believe that may be a contributing factor.

Sometimes it feels like the rearend is sliding out in a bump... I get it too.

both of you most likely need to replace rear shocks. Hint: when I thought mine might be going, I tried pushing down on the rear corners to see if it would bounce. Even when the shocks were bad (leaking and with that sliding feeling in the rear) it would not bounce. Go figure.

Anyway--if you look at the rear shocks and the metal cylinders (especially the lowers) are rusted and bulging, they are definitely going. The lower cylinder holds oil; the upper holds the air pressure for the air-ride operation. So you can not have either upppers or lowers rusty or perforated - and if you do it's time to replace.

Albertj

Most likely shocks, the air shocks aren't the best for handling to begin with... add 10 years and...

but also keep in mind the rear suspension is complex. There are control arm bushings, upper track bar bushings (high mid-center), rear sway bar end links (really cheesy ones too, wouldn't be surprised if one of them were broken)...

Most alignment shops will do a free inspection of suspension components, if you're not sure what you are looking at.

Dont forget to check the air pressures in the tires, that could affect the handling also.
Bert

Thanks guys, I'll take a good look at the rear suspension and particularly the shocks once the weather breaks and I can make myself work outside again (my garage has a Chevelle in it). I did have it aligned a couple of months ago and it helped some. At least now it jumps straight instead of to the right.........

I have a new set of monro max airs sitting around waiting to go in. I'll post back with results. Might not be too soon though.

The shocks looked pretty rough so I bought some Monroe's and put them on. That took care of the problem. The car now rides like a new one.

Thanks for the report, Steve. Glad we could help.

I had this problem as well. I went to Good Year for an alignment and had one of the worst experiences ever. After two months and three alignments later I am still displeased with the service. I am on my third set of tires from them. The bottom of my back wheels are pointed in and burning off the edges of my tires. I told Good Year not to put in the camber adjustments. They screwed up my 96 by doing that. I'm going Saturday to have my mechanic friend look at it. My ass end trails as well. Hopefully we will be able to get this resolved.

Samuel: you probably need new shocks. Do you know if the rear links are OK?

Remember - when I thought mine might be going, I tried pushing down on the rear corners to see if the car would bounce. Even when the shocks were bad (leaking and with that sliding feeling in the rear) it would not bounce. Go figure.

Albertj

I agree with everything above. When my rear shocks went bad, they were leaking oil. If they are leaking oil, then they are bad. The best thing to do is to take the tire off and visually inspect everything.

My rear shocks were leaking oil at around 64k I replaced them with Delco over the counter and they are guaranteed as long as I own the car. If they are not leaking air or oil I would never replace them.

Getting a little farther along with this. I took my car to a friends shop and although the alignment was in spec, visually you can see the bottom of the rear tires closer together than the tops. \ / Replaced the air shocks 35K miles ago. Again everything is in spec so driving isn't too bad. Found SPECIALTY PRODUCTS making shims to compensate for this. My first question is, How did this happen in the first place? I'm quite sure the vehicle was never in an accident. I did however have an alignment done when I was in Tennesee last year and things never seemed right after that. Is there a way to fix this without the shims? If I do need shims and have my current readings, Where do I go from here?



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Hi Samuel...


the rear springs could be weak, or PO could have cut them to 'lower' the car. the control arm for the air shocks could be bent such that the air compressor doesn't puff the shocks up enough. If the compressor is not running for some reason that could be a problem as well. Do you know how to check and see if the air ride is even working?

Albertj

My compressor is disconnected. I ran a valve to the underneath of my bumper when I replaced the shocks. I didn't have a problem until Good Year did an alignment on it. I never leave the rear end sitting low. If anything I have it pumped up just a little. I carry a lot of sound gear at times for my band and need to pump up the back end when the trunk is loaded down. I have been underneath the car several times and nothing seems to be out of whack.


''

It probably isn't going to sit right until (a) the compressor and switch are fixed or(b) you really pump it to the proper level - you'd be surprised at how finicky it can be to get it right or (c) you replace air shocks with regular shocks and matching springs - and then it will still sag, look funny, and scuff the inboard side of your tires with all that stuff you are schlepping when you load it up.

There is no magic fix or secret for this one - if there was someone else would have chimed in by now.

One other problem given you are in western NY - the built in compressor has an air dryer built in IIRC - the air sources you use might or might not have dry air. Result is that moisture will accumulate over time in the air shocks, early failure the result. I also wonder if you hava problem with the rear sway bar or the control links, although your mechanic should have spotted that. The links are Unobtainum from the dealer but you can put in "adjustable" ones form a tuner site like 3800 Performance (see the Dash, this editboard) - problem is the adjustable links are a couple hundred bucks the pair.

Over time on this editboard I've noticed that most people don't have to fix the air ride other than replacing the shocks every 100 to 150K miles - and if they do it's just once and usually because something happened - piece of road debris damages the system or some such. If your experience is like the overwhelming majority you'll only need to restore the air ride once.

The air ride components are similar on GM cars that use them, except for the mounting and the Riv's switch is 'special' for instance but IIRC it's only the shape of the arm and if you know what you're doing you can refit a compressor off a different GM car (like a similar year aurora or park avenue).

Also it might be the case your strut mounts are a problem, did you replace the mounts when you replaced the air shocks?

My guess, without having looked at the car, is you'd be best off fixing the air ride - get used parts from Ed Morad (run a search on this board to find him, he's in Ohio - also he has an ebay site) and a new hose kit from dealer (they are not that much) or if turns out you actually need new air shocks you'll get a hose kit if you buy Monoroes or the Gabriel shock sets. Watch out for parts dealers selling you one for the price of 2. For about $60-$70 you should get 2 shocks and a hose kit to connect to the compressor.

If the air ride was disconnected when you got the car, I imagine a hose was leaking or the height switch was not working. Again - if your experience is like the overwhelming majority you'll only need to fix this once.

I also wonder if the original lateral links failed and the replacement ones were just too short.

Good luck. Once it's fixed you'll have one of the few cars on the road that will handle right while loaded with a chock full trunk of luggage and 5 adult passengers. But getting it right will probably require restoring the rear suspension as designed, not just repairing it more or messing with the amount of air you put in the shocks.

Albertj

I myself disconnected the compressor. I did replace the shock mounts as well. When I did this I had no problems. I simply pulled the power from the compressor and fitted the lines with high pressure fittings. The car was able to ride high or low with no ass end jump or uneven tire wear. The problem came after Good Year messed with it. I looked again to see if anything was bent. Sway bars and links all look good. I have had the shocks at all different levels with no cargo in the trunk. No matter what the tires seem to be pointed in at the bottoms. I am almost ready to sue the shit out of Good Year. I have all the receipts and all the printouts from the THREE alignments that they have done as well as the third set of Eagles they put on that are burned to shit!. Mind you the front end is perfect with no uneven tire wear.

The high or low rear will change the rear alignment. There's no way for them to align it and make it right without it sitting at the correct height, as the geometry of the rear suspension changes (intentionally) as the car goes up and down. With the compressor/switch disconnected, how do you know what is the correct height?

WARNING: I'm not a lawyer so if you rely on my comments I am not responsible and you are on your own.

He doesn't.

When he puts it back together as designed, it'll work as designed. He reconnects the compressor and sets the limit switch properly, provided all those parts actually are undamaged and work, then gets it realigned, Problems solved.

The idea that he'd sue Goodyear isn't likely. First, what are the damages involved in aligning or not aligning an old car?

If he actually goes to sue Goodyear - he's in trouble. Suppose the damages were large enough to be argued. Goodyear's lawyers will not take long to figure out he's modified the suspension by disconnecting the air-ride. That makes him responsible for the alignment - all Goodyear will likely have to do is point that out from the sworn depositions, present the facts to the judge, and then the case will get thrown out of court - the argument will be along the lines of: you can't modify something then sue somebody else because of the consequences of the modifications. And you can't - at least not without a whole lot more finesse than this.

Goodyear also will likely show their mechanic did the work properly and within the limits defined by the disclaimer on the work order (it's either in the fine print or included by reference). The best he could hope for would be to only be liable for Goodyear's costs, which will be prodigious.

Samuel: no disrespect intended. If you want the car to ride high or low, can't do it with the factory air-ride becuase of the way the links and control arms are set up - at least, can't do it and expect the suspension geometry to be reasonably correct. Even in trucks that don't have adverse suspension geometry and air bags on all four corners, you can only get an inch or so with air ride components. If you want more, by now you've probably figured out that you need to fabricate or have a "lift kit" solution made to work on all 4 wheels. The problem, basically, is that a vehicle that has ride height adjustment of more than an inch or so also has a suspension other than the front and rear control arms that you see on the Riviera. The front and rear control arms, connected as they are to the car, will force the wheels to tilt inboard our outboard once they move past a certain fairly small amount of suspension travel. On a air-lifted car, what you'd usually find would be pneumatic or hydraulic cylinders that raise the body of the car off of separate front and rear sub-frames that keep the wheels on and square to the ground.

And as you gathered from my comments above, well, this is America and you could sue, you sure seem angry enough. However I suspect it'd be less expensive and more satisfying to find a rear-wheel drive car like a crown vic, lincoln, or pre -'96 chevy caprice/buick roadmaster to modify with a lift kit. If you are serious about suing, it's time to hire a lawyer, not talk on an internet board. If only because the stuff you post could be used against you.

Albertj

I will reconnect the air ride and see where it goes from there. Thank you for your advice and yes I was angry but have calmed down! I work at a law firm and my lawyer told me the same thing!

It's 100% OK to be angry as long as you focus the energy in a constructive way and as long as you listen in order to inform your energy. I also appreciate that you asked a lawyer instead of depending on what some yahoo (that yahoo would be me) says on an Internet site.

Also - so that you're not frustrated - when you reconnect the ari ride and limit switch you're still going to have an alignment problem. You may need to get some help un-doing the Goodyear alignment. I suspect that will involve removing the shim kit and re-adjusting the trailing links at the bolts in the central carrier. While you are at it you might want to use new hardware (the bolts and stuff).

Albertj

Thanks for all your help. I do appreciate it much. I will connect the air ride again, replace all the bolts, washers, etc, get another alignment and hope for the best. I have not put the shims in yet so nothing to extract at this point. Thanks again for all your help and encouragement. Peace to you.
I have a great sense of family on this site to know that all are willing to help and give guidance. It's rare that so many care for their cars in the way in which we all do.



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Peace to you too and let us know how it goes.

Albertj