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 FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions

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Jack the R
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Jack the R

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FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions   FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 EmptySat Jul 18, 2009 2:02 pm

Those "vents" are protective caps covering the topside battery terminals.

I wish I knew where they went, because they aren't there anymore (this pic was taken when I first installed the battery)

FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 Pos_term_corrosion

Sorry the pic isn't of better quality.

The flecks of dirt in the top right corner are corrosion that has been ground off in the past. Now there is more.
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ibmoses
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ibmoses

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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions   FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 EmptySat Jul 18, 2009 3:26 pm

[quote="Jack the R"]Those "vents" are protective caps covering the topside battery terminals.

In the first pic:
http://rivperformance.editboard.com/care-maintenance-f8/write-up-installing-the-optima-34-78-red-top-t4497.htm
The two silver/grey safety valves on the opposite side of the top of the battery from the "topside battery terminals"

Peel the rubber back from around your terminal end and get it back far enough away from the metal portion where you can clean the entire metal part to where it is completely spotless on both sides and around the outside edge. When you remove the rubber ring you may find that the terminal end is seperating and ruined.

There may be corrosion inside the rubber where it surrounds the terminal, if there is and you can not clean it completely because of the difficulty getting it scraped out of there you may want to consider cutting that portion off with a razor. I would also remove the bolt from the terminal and clean the inside of the hole in the terminal as well as the bolt and the bolt hole in the batt.
You might consider getting a new bolt.

Jack I apologize if I am suggesting things you already know and have tried before. Just trying to help, maybe I can help you spot the problem.

Bert tavis
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Jack the R
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Jack the R

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FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions   FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 EmptySat Jul 18, 2009 3:29 pm

No problem. I'm learning new things. I didn't know the red plastic around the contact was removeable, otherwise I wouldn't have ground mine up so bad.

I think the car's good for a few months. I'm going to look for a better terminal and chuck this one next time it acts up.
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ibmoses
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ibmoses

Name : Bert
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FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions   FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 EmptySat Jul 18, 2009 3:44 pm

Perhaps someone who is familiar with that terminal end would chime in here about how one would go about replacing it correctly. I have never had to replace one and have no idea how it is done.
If it were me I would find a AC Delco certified shop and have them do it(if it needs replacing) they have the proper tools to crimp the end correctly. The other problem is: would there be enough slack in the cable to replace the terminal end?

Good Luck

Bert tavis
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Jack the R
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions   FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 EmptySat Jul 18, 2009 6:38 pm

I've got crimping pliers. I dunno if they'll work with this big a cable. I'm not picturing this being very hard- cut the cables, crimp on connects, crimp on new terminal cable.

If it's more complicated, please, someone let me know before I do it.
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robotennis61
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FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions   FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 EmptySat Jul 18, 2009 7:25 pm

i wired up my old car,i relocated the battery to the trunk and ran 2 gauge wire from the starter to the trunk. all i did was find a battery cable eyelet the size of the cable, got some resin core solder from radio shack and just soldered the thing together.. it was a solid connection. i never had a problem in that area. i didnt have a crimper that size ,and i thought soldering the cable to the eyelet was a better idea. you can go to jegs and for $15 taylor sells a eyelet that after accepting the cable you just simply screw the whole thing together. it seems like a good idea. even if i had that i would still solder everything together.
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Rickw
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FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions   FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 EmptySat Jul 18, 2009 7:45 pm

If you don't use a bolt / screw type connector and want to swedge a connector or eyelet terminal to end of cable you can buy an inexpensive crimper (less than $20.00) from your local welding supply store.
I purchased the tool and #4 welding cable last year when I was making all new cables for a motorcycle and it works excellent.
The tool requires that you insert your terminal end /eyelet connector and wire, then strike the top of it with at least a 16 oz. hammer. It makes perfect crimps every time.
I then soldered for extra security. I was able to buy everything I needed at the one store.
Wire, terminals, tool, solder and flux.
You can always use the tool again when making amplifier cables as well.
I'll try and find a photo of the tool I am talking about. But I am not very good at retrieving images and posting them.
You can simplify things even more by going to a local NAPA or other well stocked parts store and they have cable ends for side post terminals that are designed for what you want to do. Just need to cut off your old ends, strip some wire insulation off your cable, insert into new cable end and tighten.
When you strip the insulation from your cables you'll be able to see if the corrosion has climbed up the cable at all. If it has crawled further than you can cut without making the cable too short then you will need to buy or make a new cable.
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Jack the R
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions   FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 EmptySat Jul 18, 2009 9:51 pm

Thanks for the advice. Silly thing costing me money . . .
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions   FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 EmptySat Jul 18, 2009 9:59 pm

Just replace the terminal end with one made for that purpose or replace the whole cable. Won't be that much money.
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Jack the R
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Jack the R

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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions   FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 EmptySat Jul 18, 2009 11:25 pm

Nickel and diming me to death wink
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albertj
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FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions   FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 EmptySun Jul 19, 2009 8:13 am

ibmoses wrote:
Jack the R wrote:
The corrosion is on the factory positive terminal.

Wouldn't the paint act as an insulator?

ibmoses - Would it work on copper, or is it formulated for lead?

I found my bulb grease. Should have put it on while I had the battery out.
bonk

Albertj has a good point(as usual). The corrosion should not be constantly reoccurring.
Post a few good pics of your battery location and perhaps several different sets of eyeballs can spot something that could be easily changed to help solve this trouble. Is there a metal brace across the battery between the terminals?

The spray coating should work on any automotive application. Just make sure everything is good and clean(no corrosion) and it should help prevent the corrosion from coming back.
http://www.usahardware.com/inet/shop/item/03120/icn/20-437707/crc/05046.htm
Just get whatever brand they have at the parts store. I like NAPA(get the good stuff)
I have used brake cleaner to help loosen the corrosion up and get it cleaned off. Not sure if that would be wise on the Riv, the fumes are very noxious.

Bert tavis

Thanks, Bert...

Problem is, the corrosion has to be removed first, before the paint trick will work. Looking at that terminal, after the red plastic sock is pulled off looks like ti's time for (a) terminal replacement if the wire is corroded or (b) a dust mask (do you don't breathe metal or corrosion chips) and a Dremel with one of those little round stainless wire brushes.

I wonder if GM has a cable splice with terminal on the end as a service part. They used to be "out of fiche calls" I don't know what they call that repair part class now. Advance Auto has the bare lead (or are they zinc) bolt on terminals for $2.00 but I don't know if the red plastic sock will fit it.

Albertj
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Rickw
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FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions   FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 EmptySun Jul 19, 2009 10:41 am

albertj wrote:

Problem is, the corrosion has to be removed first, before the paint trick will work. Looking at that terminal, after the red plastic sock is pulled off looks like ti's time for (a) terminal replacement if the wire is corroded or (b) a dust mask (do you don't breathe metal or corrosion chips) and a Dremel with one of those little round stainless wire brushes.

I wonder if GM has a cable splice with terminal on the end as a service part. They used to be "out of fiche calls" I don't know what they call that repair part class now. Advance Auto has the bare lead (or are they zinc) bolt on terminals for $2.00 but I don't know if the red plastic sock will fit it.

Albertj
You don't need the Red plastic sock, especially where our battery's are mounted.
It is only on there to minimize possible shorting out if you should touch the cable end to ground. Just cut the whole thing off to expose the condition of your connector and clean or replace as necessary.
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Jack the R
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FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions   FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 EmptySun Jul 19, 2009 12:18 pm

I used a dust mask and my trusty Dremel.


Last edited by Jack the R on Fri Jan 01, 2010 12:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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Rickw
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FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions   FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 EmptySun Jul 19, 2009 12:27 pm

Did you notice any corrosion working its way up the cable from the terminal end or is all OK now.
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Jack the R
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Jack the R

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FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions   FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 EmptySun Jul 19, 2009 4:20 pm

I haven't checked. I put it all back together yesterday afternoon and it started fine. I'll run by O'Reilly's in the next few days and see what they've got.
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Jack the R
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions   FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 EmptyMon Oct 05, 2009 5:21 pm

O.K. it's time to play "design that cable." I got distracted fixing other things and now the car is down again with the same poor connecting terminal problem.

This looks like a good starting point -

FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 631962

NAPA pt. Part: MPB 781133

But it's 4 gauge. Looking back at the older posts it appears I need a 2 gauge cable?

What about the accessory lead? I don't know what gauge it is, but it's much thicker than the lead on this cable.


Last edited by Jack the R on Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Rickw
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FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions   FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 EmptyMon Oct 05, 2009 9:30 pm

Unable to pull up your link. cut and paste didn't work for me......but I'm not very computer literate.
So, I can't see what your proposing to do or what exactly your problem is, other than a bad cable, maybe..??????
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Jack the R
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FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions   FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 EmptyMon Oct 05, 2009 10:10 pm

Sorry Rick. It looks like NAPA's web site won't allow deep linking and I didn't notice. I've editted the original post. NAPA hasn't figured out I can deep link images.
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Rickw
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FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions   FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 EmptyMon Oct 05, 2009 10:36 pm

If your interested in replacing the cable with OEM replacement:

Battery Positive Cable, 95-98 = P/N 12157068
99 = P/N 15321236
But at $140.00 from monsterpartsonline, your probably not interested in that option.

Battery Negative Cable, 95 = 12157252
96-99 = 15320700
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Rickw
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FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions   FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 EmptyMon Oct 05, 2009 10:41 pm

Jack the R wrote:
O.K. it's time to play "design that cable." I got distracted fixing other things and now the car is down again with the same poor connecting terminal problem.

This looks like a good starting point -

FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 631962

NAPA pt. Part: MPB 781133

But it's 4 gauge. Looking back at the older posts it appears I need a 2 gauge cable?

What about the accessory lead? I don't know what gauge it is, but it's much thicker than the lead on this cable.

This is not what you need. There are other alternatives.
Start with a cable that has the correct battery terminal end on it at least and then you can always modify the other end.
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions   FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 EmptyMon Oct 05, 2009 10:45 pm

Jack - you may be able to make up a cable with a combination of audiophile and marine components. Marine component will be a terminal only (not swaged to a wire) that has a terminal bolt with wingnut and washers for attaching cables. Audiophile-land (and a full line auto parts store) will have 2 gauge cable with ring terminals already swaged on one or both ends in the length you can use.

Also consider just getting a replacement cable assembly from monster parts. 12157068 or Delco SOSX134-2 thru 98. for 99 the GM# is 15321260 and Delco is SOSX134-2A. Granted they are $141 and $120 respectively. But the miracle I guess is they *are* available. And the raw cable is not cheap anyway - see http://www.wiringproducts.com/contents/en-us/d78.html for one source of cable. Another source - a 10-foot roll of 2 AWG will cost you $37.- : http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=679&familyName=2+Gauge+Marine+Tinned+Battery+Cable+-+%28Red%2C+Black+and+Yellow%29

hope this helps

Albertj
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Jack the R
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions   FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 EmptyTue Oct 06, 2009 1:30 am

I have an Optima which has both top and side terminals. I want to use the top terminal. The side terminal is stripped out from overtightening (never could get a good connection without tightening that puppy down, even after cleaning). I really hate side terminals because it is too easy to strip out soft lead threads.
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Rickw
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FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions   FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 EmptyTue Oct 06, 2009 1:40 am

Jack the R wrote:
I have an Optima which has both top and side terminals. I want to use the top terminal. The side terminal is stripped out from overtightening (never could get a good connection without tightening that puppy down, even after cleaning). I really hate side terminals because it is too easy to strip out soft lead threads.
Oh, well that changes everything. Forget about what I posted earlier. You can make almost anything you will need for a top post battery connection.
As far as the secondary wire is concerned, you can get the diameter of wire you need and just crimp a ring terminal on the battery end and bolt it to one of the 1/4" bolts that crimps the main battery cable to the terminal end.
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions   FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 EmptyTue Oct 06, 2009 11:46 am

Kind of the same here - Basically I think some marine battery wiring will fix this right - a top-post connector with a binding post to which you can connect wires that have ring connectors. To wit:
[url]
http://www.discountmarinesupplies.com/Lugs_Terminals-SEACHOICE_BATTERY_TERMINAL_SET.html[/url]

Actually, such terminals are available as most Wal-Marts in the automotive section near the batteries. What they may not have is the terminal covers - again, to wit:
[url]
http://www.discountmarinesupplies.com/Lugs_Terminals-SEACHOICE_MARINE_BATTERY_TERMINAL_COVERS.html[/url]

should not be hard to get these at a marine store near you. Also - if you are going to a pick-and-pull that has older foreign cars sitting around, odds are you can get suitable terminals and covers if you look around enough. On older Nissan and Subaru (at least ones I have owned) it was common to use an assembled terminal instead of a swaged one.

Albertj
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Jack the R
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions   FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 EmptyTue Oct 06, 2009 12:37 pm

Does anyone know what gauge the accessory wire is?

O'Reilly's has the 2 guage wire with top mount thumbsup

Where do you get the connectors to splice these big cables together? O'Reilly's doesn't have anything on their website (or I'm missing it one).

What do you guys think of battery washers -

FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 Ssl643tp

I've never seen anyone use these.

Rickw wrote:
If you don't use a bolt / screw type connector and want to swedge a connector or eyelet terminal to end of cable you can buy an inexpensive crimper (less than $20.00) from your local welding supply store.
I purchased the tool and #4 welding cable last year when I was making all new cables for a motorcycle and it works excellent.

FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions - Page 3 QC%20Brute%20crimp%20tool

Is that it?

I've been googling around, seems a vice or a blunt chisel will work too. Those I have.

Albertj - I'm not sure where a marine supply store is around here, but being by a couple of lakes we must have one. I'll ask around.
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