Riv Performance
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

The 8th Gen Riviera Resource
 
HomeDashboardLatest imagesSearchRiviera Questions & AnswersWrite-Ups IndexRegisterRelated LinksLog in

 

 ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers

Go down 
+6
BillBoost37
T Riley
deekster_caddy
Rickw
robotennis61
turtleman
10 posters
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
AuthorMessage
turtleman
Expert
turtleman


Name : Codith
Age : 36
Location : Villa Park, IL
Joined : 2007-02-08
Post Count : 3671
Merit : 140

ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers   ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers - Page 4 EmptyWed Sep 02, 2009 5:37 am

ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers - Page 4 CIMG1032

stock rockers

ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers - Page 4 CIMG1047

YT roller rockers

ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers - Page 4 CIMG1055

valvespring compressor that is way too wide for the LS_ style retainers so I used an antenne tool as a washer since I didnt have any good washers to use for it

ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers - Page 4 CIMG1056

that's pretty much the two extremes for the hight. Those are both with the cc105 springs and the new intense retainers. One has the new keepers and the other has the old ones.
Back to top Go down
Rickw
Guru



Name : Rick
Location : Lancaster, MA
Joined : 2008-09-13
Post Count : 6282
Merit : 119

ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers   ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers - Page 4 EmptyWed Sep 02, 2009 7:10 am

Very noticeable difference in valve stem height. Don't even have to measure it to tell.
I'm assuming the OLD ZZP compcams ones are on the left and NEW compcams keepers are on the right.?


Last edited by Rickw on Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:03 pm; edited 4 times in total
Back to top Go down
turtleman
Expert
turtleman


Name : Codith
Age : 36
Location : Villa Park, IL
Joined : 2007-02-08
Post Count : 3671
Merit : 140

ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers   ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers - Page 4 EmptyWed Sep 02, 2009 11:25 pm

Rickw wrote:
I'm assuming the new ones are on the left and OEM on the right.?
Or when you say "OLD" keepers do you mean old ZZP CC keepers.?


old = the first set of zzp-compcams keepers I just took off
Back to top Go down
BillBoost37
Junkie



Location : Enfield CT
Joined : 2007-11-28
Post Count : 769
Merit : 26

ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers   ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers - Page 4 EmptyThu Sep 03, 2009 11:05 am

And which keepsers did you put back on?
Back to top Go down
turtleman
Expert
turtleman


Name : Codith
Age : 36
Location : Villa Park, IL
Joined : 2007-02-08
Post Count : 3671
Merit : 140

ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers   ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers - Page 4 EmptyThu Sep 03, 2009 6:58 pm

Now I have all the new compcams ones I just got on and they all look level
Back to top Go down
Rickw
Guru



Name : Rick
Location : Lancaster, MA
Joined : 2008-09-13
Post Count : 6282
Merit : 119

ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers   ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers - Page 4 EmptyFri Sep 04, 2009 11:02 pm

I wonder why there is such a difference with the same manufacturer.
I'll bet that was my problem. I never considered the keepers to be the problem at the time so I re-used the OEM retainers with the new comp cams HD keepers..
Now I think I'll pull everything apart and install the modded CC retainers with stock OEM keepers and see what the valve stem height looks like, only because I was told the OEM retainers further compress the springs an additional .080" and could break a spring or take out the timing chain dampener prematurely.
Back to top Go down
BillBoost37
Junkie



Location : Enfield CT
Joined : 2007-11-28
Post Count : 769
Merit : 26

ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers   ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers - Page 4 EmptyTue Sep 08, 2009 11:02 am

Modded or LS retainers do give you additional clearnance. I saw the measured difference at the machine shop. But the locks..hmmm
Back to top Go down
Rickw
Guru



Name : Rick
Location : Lancaster, MA
Joined : 2008-09-13
Post Count : 6282
Merit : 119

ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers   ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers - Page 4 EmptySun Mar 07, 2010 11:19 pm

Turtle,
In the last pic you posted, on this page, your showing the assembled springs with the LS style retainers and the one valve has the old ZZP heavy Duty keepers and the other valve has the same retainer with the New ZZP keepers or locks.(whatever you prefer to call them)
Correct.!!!
1.) I know it's been a while but, do you remember whether the valve on the left has the old or new keepers.?
2..) I'm trying to figure out which one did you end up using.? The set-up that provided the higher valve stem height (the one on the right) or the lower valve stem height on the left of the picture.

The reason I'm asking is that I finally got around to having the OEM retainers replaced with the Manley retainers that are now available from Intense. ( LS Style)
BillBoost did the swap for me (due to my back) and we took some measurements using combination's of everything that is available. Stock, ZZP and Intense, as far as checking valve spring height available with combination's of all 3 retainers as well as stock and HD keepers.
None of the arrangements we could do showed a valve stem height as high as the one on the right in your picture.
The reason I'm curious about that one pic or more precisely that one valve with the stem protruding so high out of the retainer is that it would cause much more spring compression than the one that doesn't have the valve protruding so high.
This was the sole reason for me to change retainers because I was warned that the OEM retainer will cause too much static spring compression and tension causing an early failure of many things including the valve chain tensioner, by putting too much stress on the valve springs.
It will also cause the valve seats to be beat up quickly, etc.
After using a stock head on the bench and doing all the measurements, we did find a measurable difference between the LS Style (Manley) retainer, the ZZP modified retainers and the OEM. So I am glad that we changed retainers and hope that about 6,000 miles hasn't caused any undue problems. I don't hear or feel any problems, engine runs great. But I will be considering to change the timing chain and tensioner the next time I find myself close to that area. Such as a water pump change will get me half way there.
Please let me know if you can remember.
Thanks.


Last edited by Rickw on Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:16 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
turtleman
Expert
turtleman


Name : Codith
Age : 36
Location : Villa Park, IL
Joined : 2007-02-08
Post Count : 3671
Merit : 140

ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers   ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers - Page 4 EmptySun Mar 07, 2010 11:35 pm

I'm pretty sure the right one, where the stem is sticking up over the retainer, is the after.

I see where you're coming from with the resting height but I don't have any good way of measuring anything to really know what's going on. Frankly, I was happy just to have everything looking about even and not making noise when I was done. When I was compressing the valves to replace the retainers and keepers, I was having problems with the retainers not wanting to compress down past the keepers because the retainers were mushrooming at the inside edges where the keepers had to fit through. This mushrooming was evidently because the retainers were being pushed by the rockers which is NEVER supposed to happen so I was definitely ok with having the stems sticking up past the retainers more.

If anyone's got some reference pics of there's, I'd love to see what they all look like. The other thing is the Intense retainers were a good bit different than the zzp ones. Perhaps my pic on the right is how it is supposed to look with that retainer. I dunno though - I don't have much to go on.
Back to top Go down
Rickw
Guru



Name : Rick
Location : Lancaster, MA
Joined : 2008-09-13
Post Count : 6282
Merit : 119

ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers   ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers - Page 4 EmptySun Mar 07, 2010 11:46 pm

turtleman wrote:
I'm pretty sure the right one, where the stem is sticking up over the retainer, is the after.

I see where you're coming from with the resting height but I don't have any good way of measuring anything to really know what's going on. Frankly, I was happy just to have everything looking about even and not making noise when I was done. When I was compressing the valves to replace the retainers and keepers, I was having problems with the retainers not wanting to compress down past the keepers because the retainers were mushrooming at the inside edges where the keepers had to fit through. This mushrooming was evidently because the retainers were being pushed by the rockers which is NEVER supposed to happen so I was definitely ok with having the stems sticking up past the retainers more.

If anyone's got some reference pics of there's, I'd love to see what they all look like. The other thing is the Intense retainers were a good bit different than the zzp ones. Perhaps my pic on the right is how it is supposed to look with that retainer. I dunno though - I don't have much to go on.
Well, Bill took pictures of all the possible configurations.
Once he has some time, I'll ask him to post them in this thread for future reference by all.
Back to top Go down
Rickw
Guru



Name : Rick
Location : Lancaster, MA
Joined : 2008-09-13
Post Count : 6282
Merit : 119

ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers   ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers - Page 4 EmptyMon Mar 08, 2010 8:12 pm

Hey Codith,
Did you know what happened to the photo's of your assembled springs on this page.
They were here yesterday.
Do you think you can try and correct this and I'm going to ask Bill to add the pictures we took this weekend as well.
Thanks
Back to top Go down
turtleman
Expert
turtleman


Name : Codith
Age : 36
Location : Villa Park, IL
Joined : 2007-02-08
Post Count : 3671
Merit : 140

ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers   ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers - Page 4 EmptyMon Mar 08, 2010 11:06 pm

As of this moment, they are back but I didn't do anything. I don't know what's going on with em
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content





ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers   ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers - Page 4 Empty

Back to top Go down
 
ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers
Back to top 
Page 4 of 4Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
 Similar topics
-
» Strange fluttering/ticking noise...
» Broken Valve Spring!!
» Very quiet ticking noise from engine compartment. Any Ideas?
» Ticking - Exhaust?
» Ticking noise in the engine 95 series 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Riv Performance ::   Supercharged 3800 Tech :: Series II Engine & Transmission-
Jump to: