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 HELP - starting problem...

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Name : Andrew Zamiska
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Location : Cecil, PA - 25 miles south of Pittsburgh
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HELP - starting problem... Empty
PostSubject: HELP - starting problem...   HELP - starting problem... EmptyFri Jul 24, 2009 7:18 pm

Alright guys and gals, here's the scoop:

I just got my '95 Riviera back from my cousin's place getting fixed. It's been sitting for about 2 years prior to me purchasing it. A lot of things have been fixed including full brakes excluding the pump or MC, rust holes fixed, and some gaskets done.

Today, I went to start the car and....nothing. No cranking, just something like a relay clicking and the dash lights turning on like they should. I tried it twice more and the car started up like normal. No problem. Well, a little bit later when I went to start it again, it started up fine. After a while I come back to it and it does the same thing - three tries, no response from the car aside from the normal dash lights. 4th try it starts fine. The battery is not the problem and I replaced the starter, same problem.

I'm wondering if it has to do with some loose wiring somewhere? I just don't know where to start. It's like the starter isn't even connected to the car, and then the car starts great. The car runs great in every way besides that. Also, yesterday I started getting an intermittent SES light.

Any ideas at all? I really want to get this fixed - I don't want this to become a permenant problem...

Thanks!

-Andrew Z
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HELP - starting problem... Empty
PostSubject: Re: HELP - starting problem...   HELP - starting problem... EmptyFri Jul 24, 2009 7:21 pm

Have the SES light checked. Might be totally unrelated, but good to know what's causing it.

Could be the ignition switch that's causing your starting problem.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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Z-type
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Name : Andrew Zamiska
Age : 32
Location : Cecil, PA - 25 miles south of Pittsburgh
Joined : 2009-06-29
Post Count : 1427
Merit : 62

HELP - starting problem... Empty
PostSubject: Re: HELP - starting problem...   HELP - starting problem... EmptyFri Jul 24, 2009 7:23 pm

I thought the ignition switch could be a problem. Sigh.

I wish I could the SES light checked...i have ZERO money to pay for a scan. Anyone local that can do it for me smile .
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AA
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HELP - starting problem... Empty
PostSubject: Re: HELP - starting problem...   HELP - starting problem... EmptyFri Jul 24, 2009 7:25 pm

You might try a local parts store. Some read codes for free. Let them know your car is a '95 model.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
ibmoses
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PostSubject: Re: HELP - starting problem...   HELP - starting problem... EmptyFri Jul 24, 2009 7:26 pm

Just guessing but since you are sure it is not the battery or the batt. cables or the starter, the first thing that comes to mind is a potential ignition switch trying to fail. Or possibly a bad ground connection where the ground cable connects to the engine.
Next time it does it you could try wiggling the gear shift lever to rule that out.

Bert tavis
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Name : Andrew Zamiska
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HELP - starting problem... Empty
PostSubject: Re: HELP - starting problem...   HELP - starting problem... EmptyFri Jul 24, 2009 7:30 pm

Yeah I'll try Advanced tomorrow and see if they will scan for free. If I can get told what it IS then I'll be at a good starting point.

You say ignition switch too? Is this a dealer part and replacement job, just out of curiosity?
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PostSubject: Re: HELP - starting problem...   HELP - starting problem... EmptyFri Jul 24, 2009 9:42 pm

could also be a vats issue, try cleaning the chip on the key with some alcohol and maybe hit each side with like some very fine sandpaper 400 grit. will shine it up pretty good. try it and see if it helps with the issue.
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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: HELP - starting problem...   HELP - starting problem... EmptyFri Jul 24, 2009 9:42 pm

When was the battery replaced? Sitting for 2 years can kill a battery.

Usually if it's the ignition switch it will crank but not start.
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HELP - starting problem... Empty
PostSubject: Re: HELP - starting problem...   HELP - starting problem... EmptyFri Jul 24, 2009 9:50 pm

The battery is literally 3 weeks old. I'm positive (no pun intended) that the battery is good. It's just the weirdest problem. The car does NOTHING when I turn the key, like the starter is shot. But the starter is fine because it did this same problem with the old starter as the new. I know, buying a new one was a mistake but the symptoms pointed to it.

Anyway, the ignition switch does make sense since this is an intermittent problem. Sometimes it starts normal, other times it won't do a thing. I just hope this isn't a big deal. And I hope it ends up to be the switch, not wiring.
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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: HELP - starting problem...   HELP - starting problem... EmptyFri Jul 24, 2009 10:00 pm

When this happens do the dash lights come on, or do you have _nothing_? Double check that your connections are tight at the battery terminals...
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Name : Andrew Zamiska
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HELP - starting problem... Empty
PostSubject: Re: HELP - starting problem...   HELP - starting problem... EmptyFri Jul 24, 2009 10:01 pm

No all the dash lights come on like the car WANTS to start, but the only thing that doesnt engage is the starter. everything else is normal smile .
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deekster_caddy
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HELP - starting problem... Empty
PostSubject: Re: HELP - starting problem...   HELP - starting problem... EmptyFri Jul 24, 2009 10:01 pm

OK, just checkin...
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Name : Andrew Zamiska
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HELP - starting problem... Empty
PostSubject: Re: HELP - starting problem...   HELP - starting problem... EmptySat Jul 25, 2009 1:24 pm

Hmmm...found something interesting. I find that if I leave the key in the ignition for a few seconds before starting the car, it starts up the first time, even cold.

Could this have to do with the key security system? I'm still learning these cars...
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: HELP - starting problem...   HELP - starting problem... EmptySat Jul 25, 2009 1:29 pm

Which dash lights are on when you turn the key but starter does not engage?

Albertj
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HELP - starting problem... Empty
PostSubject: Re: HELP - starting problem...   HELP - starting problem... EmptySat Jul 25, 2009 1:38 pm

All lights are coming on like they're supposed to - like the car WANTS to start but it won't engage. I hope that answered your question. I don't really know how to say it other than the lights operate normally but sometimes the starter doesnt engage at all.
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PostSubject: Re: HELP - starting problem...   HELP - starting problem... EmptySat Jul 25, 2009 2:05 pm

If the problem is the security system, the security yellow light will stay on while you are trying to start.

If you are getting no crank... hmm... does this car have an aftermarket security system installed?

Albertj
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HELP - starting problem... Empty
PostSubject: Re: HELP - starting problem...   HELP - starting problem... EmptySat Jul 25, 2009 3:07 pm

Yeah the security light does NOT stay on while trying to crank. So I guess that rules that out. Oh and it has the factory security system, not aftermarket.

Well, like I mentioned in the last post, if I leave the key in for a few seconds before I turn it to crank the car, it starts fine and pretty quickly. This is very strange.
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HELP - starting problem... Empty
PostSubject: Re: HELP - starting problem...   HELP - starting problem... EmptySun Jul 26, 2009 2:00 am

I think what I meant to say before is that the Passkey (?) system could be the problem? Not the security system necessarily. I'm under the impression those are separate systems. Either that or a bad ignition switch like suggested. Either of those sounds pretty likely at this point since the problem is very VERY random.
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HELP - starting problem... Empty
PostSubject: Re: HELP - starting problem...   HELP - starting problem... EmptyMon Jul 27, 2009 1:54 pm

Well, the car is at the dealer now. I was on my way there to ask them when I could drop it off and the alternator/steering pump belt got chewed up and thrown off the pulleys. Luckily I had enough power to get the rest of the way there. Messed up my hood insulator though...

I guess I'm down a car again. Already. But I made them a list of things that need done that I can't do myself so hopefully they'll fix the car up...
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HELP - starting problem... Empty
PostSubject: Re: HELP - starting problem...   HELP - starting problem... EmptyThu Jul 30, 2009 3:56 pm

Well, I got a call from the dealer today and they said that the starting problem was due to dirty fuses?? This makes sense as the car was sitting for so long and was filthy when I got it. I trust this dealer with everything I've got so I'm banking on them being right. We'll see how it holds up. The belt tensioner and pulley need replaced so I'll get the car back after that and we'll see if that really is the starting problem after all.
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HELP - starting problem... Empty
PostSubject: Re: HELP - starting problem...   HELP - starting problem... EmptyThu Jul 30, 2009 4:00 pm

Dirty fuses. That's a new one. Glad you figured it out.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
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PostSubject: Re: HELP - starting problem...   HELP - starting problem... EmptyThu Jul 30, 2009 4:30 pm

They must have meant corroded or "Dirty" connections in the fuse panel holders.
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HELP - starting problem... Empty
PostSubject: Re: HELP - starting problem...   HELP - starting problem... EmptyThu Jul 30, 2009 5:25 pm

I think that's what they meant Rick - that makes more sense to me. But again, I really hope that's all the problem was. From what I can recall, ignition switch problems are not all THAT common and I'd hate to be part of that statistic if I don't have to be.

That car better start every time from now on...
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PostSubject: Re: HELP - starting problem...   HELP - starting problem... EmptyThu Jul 30, 2009 11:50 pm

Mine was having this problem, but it turned out to be the negative battery cable not wanting to stay firm.
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Z-type
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Name : Andrew Zamiska
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Location : Cecil, PA - 25 miles south of Pittsburgh
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HELP - starting problem... Empty
PostSubject: Re: HELP - starting problem...   HELP - starting problem... EmptyFri Jul 31, 2009 11:20 am

Thanks Jamie - I like input like that so I can keep a lookout for little problems like that.
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