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 P0321 & P0361 HELP!!!

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95ParkAveUltra
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PostSubject: P0321 & P0361 HELP!!!   P0321 & P0361 HELP!!! EmptySun Aug 16, 2009 3:43 pm

so last night i start my car and the check engine light was on. happened a few times b4. wasnt able to get home fast enough to use the scanner. last night i was close enough to try. as i start to go. she begins to hesitated, bok, shutter, all of the above. pretty much anything above idle she didnt want to go. so i got alil mad and just punched it. well she went then lol. i made it a block or so and just turned her off and back on. light went off. she drove alil better. when i made it home i pulled the codes.

P0321= Ignition System Problem, 18x Interrupts Lost Signal

P0361= Ignition System Problem, Electric Spark Timing, EST Not Toggling

Where do i look? Is this a crank sensor? Ignition Module? Begin the check list guys...
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: P0321 & P0361 HELP!!!   P0321 & P0361 HELP!!! EmptySun Aug 16, 2009 3:50 pm

I think you should check the wiring under the ignition module for chafed insulation.

Albertj
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mdhall1
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PostSubject: Re: P0321 & P0361 HELP!!!   P0321 & P0361 HELP!!! EmptyMon Aug 17, 2009 10:43 pm

here is what alldatadiy says p0321
DTC PO321 WILL SET WHEN

* The engine is running.
* The PCM detects 150 fuel control reference pulses (50 crank revolutions), and no spark reference pulses.
* Engine RPM is below 1200.

ACTION TAKEN (PCM WILL DEFAULT TO)
When conditions for setting DTC P0321 exist, the fuel reference signal is used by the PCM to control ignition timing advance. This condition will cause module mode to be used for ignition timing below 400 RPM and PCM-controlled ignition timing to be degraded below 1200 RPM. DTC P0321 does not illuminate the Malfunction Indicator Lamp (Service Engine Soon).

DTC CHART TEST DESCRIPTION
Number(s) below refer to circled number(s) on the diagnostic chart.

1. Verifies that CKT 647 is not shorted to ground or open in the ignition jumper harness.
2. If a window on the harmonic balancer is interfacing with the 18X Hall-effect switch, the ignition control module will ground the spark reference signal. Starter may have to be bumped several times to obtain a voltage reading.
3. Voltage reading should be lower than that obtained with engine not running indicating a pulsed reference signal.

DIAGNOSTIC AIDS
An intermittent may be caused by a poor connection, rubbed through wire insulation, or a wire broken inside the insulation
Check for:

* Backed out connector terminals at Electronic Ignition (EI) module or PCM.
* If connections and harness check OK, try monitoring voltage on CKT 647 with DVM while moving the related wiring harness and connectors with the engine idling. This may help to isolate the location of the malfunction.
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mdhall1
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PostSubject: Re: P0321 & P0361 HELP!!!   P0321 & P0361 HELP!!! EmptyMon Aug 17, 2009 10:46 pm

albertj wrote:
I think you should check the wiring under the ignition module for chafed insulation.

Albertj
I agree
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95ParkAveUltra
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PostSubject: Re: P0321 & P0361 HELP!!!   P0321 & P0361 HELP!!! EmptyTue Aug 18, 2009 1:28 am

wow good resources. will do. thanx
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Young Steph
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PostSubject: Spark Reference Lost (PLEASE HELP)   P0321 & P0361 HELP!!! EmptyWed Mar 07, 2012 3:07 am

I'm a newby but i've been lerking around and now i officially need help. I have 1995 riviera supercharged with 88k miles on it. I've had the motor rebuilt around 1800 miles ago. My car stalls at 1500rpm on the highway often. The service engine light comes on randomly during start up but never while driving. Sometimes I can turn the car off then back on to get the light off. When the light is on you can tell the difference in performance. I've had ICM checked and it came back good. I had the car at a local auto electric shop and all grounds are good no chafed wires. Then to the dealership it went to return with a clean bill of health aside from my hid's killing the car upon turning on which i removed (SES never came on for them). So i got desperate and started buying parts, basically anything I could think of. Today we put on a new cam sensor, crankshaft sensor, o2 sensor and a new harmonic balancer (old one was cracked the whole way around) and the problem still remains. Could a missing coil pack bolt cause these things? The code is read as "spark reference lost". I really like my car alot but I'm beyond lost. Any Help will be greatly appreciated.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: P0321 & P0361 HELP!!!   P0321 & P0361 HELP!!! EmptyWed Mar 07, 2012 7:50 am

Welcome. I think the missing coil pack bolt could indeed be part of the problem. I assume there is one missing?

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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Young Steph
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PostSubject: Re: P0321 & P0361 HELP!!!   P0321 & P0361 HELP!!! EmptyWed Mar 07, 2012 8:16 am

Yeah it's missing I was rushing after having icm checked and snapped the bolt for the harness in the icm so to avoid being late for work I used a coil pack bolt in my spare icm to get me to work but never figured out where to get a replacement. Thank you, I'll try that first
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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: P0321 & P0361 HELP!!!   P0321 & P0361 HELP!!! EmptyWed Mar 07, 2012 9:01 am

Make sure the undersides of the coil packs are clean and they are getting a good ground, as well as the terminals being clean.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: P0321 & P0361 HELP!!!   P0321 & P0361 HELP!!! EmptyWed Mar 07, 2012 9:10 am

Steph, your post was merged with a similar thread. Check the 3rd post from top for info on the P0321 DTC.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
Young Steph
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PostSubject: Re: P0321 & P0361 HELP!!!   P0321 & P0361 HELP!!! EmptyWed Mar 07, 2012 12:12 pm

I'm going to try to clean the contacts for the coil packs and find a bolt and hopefully that helps. Thank you
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Young Steph
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PostSubject: Re: P0321 & P0361 HELP!!!   P0321 & P0361 HELP!!! EmptyThu Mar 08, 2012 2:45 am

Nope same ol problem but I did notice the misfire at 1500rpm doesn't occur when the ses light is on but the car feels funny right before the shift from first to second like the timing is off
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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: P0321 & P0361 HELP!!!   P0321 & P0361 HELP!!! EmptyThu Mar 08, 2012 6:35 am

How old and what brand are your spark plug wires? if you can't figure it out they may need replacement. I would recommend trying to find AC Delco wires, some aftermarket wires just don't cut it for our engines.
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Young Steph
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PostSubject: Re: P0321 & P0361 HELP!!!   P0321 & P0361 HELP!!! EmptyFri Mar 09, 2012 3:12 am

The wires can't be anymore than 4 months old, but far as brand I don't even remember. I don't know if it's related but I didn't mention my security light stays on for random amounts of time 30sec-10mins) upon start every time. Today it rained and the ses was on and stayed on until my first break at work but when I started I cranked a little longer than I'd like but it did start with no ses light. Should I take it back to the dealership?
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: P0321 & P0361 HELP!!!   P0321 & P0361 HELP!!! EmptyFri Mar 09, 2012 10:05 am

Security won't make the car run badly, nor is it related to the DTCs. It's a whole other issue. When your car refuses to start for 3 mins, THAT'S the Security lamp issue:

http://rivperformance.editboard.com/t4564-write-up-no-start-3-min-delay-disabling-pass-key-ii-security

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
Young Steph
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P0321 & P0361 HELP!!! Empty
PostSubject: Re: P0321 & P0361 HELP!!!   P0321 & P0361 HELP!!! EmptyFri Mar 09, 2012 12:44 pm

I got up and removed the icm and checked all the wires as far as I could trace (not very far) and I found nothing chafed. If its a bad ground can't I make a new ground from directly off the harness or is this a triggered ground?
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: P0321 & P0361 HELP!!!   P0321 & P0361 HELP!!! EmptySat Mar 10, 2012 12:08 am

suggest you check the ignition switch - start car and while it is running, wiggle the key up/down/back/forth. Just a hunch and won't take long to eliminate it if is not a cause.
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Young Steph
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PostSubject: Re: P0321 & P0361 HELP!!!   P0321 & P0361 HELP!!! EmptySat Mar 10, 2012 1:22 am

I wiggled it an no change but it does have a lot of play in it. It's funny because if you start the car and then turn it off then back on sometimes the ses goes away. That car may have a new owner at the rate I'm going unfortunately
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Young Steph
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PostSubject: Re: P0321 & P0361 HELP!!!   P0321 & P0361 HELP!!! EmptySun Mar 11, 2012 12:19 am

The story just got more intersting. I go to get in the car and notice the dome lights dimming up and down before I even put the keys in the ignition. I thought nothing of it and got on the highway where the headlights started dimming as well. As the headlights dimmed I noticed the car stalling and the rpms falling even under throttle. Before all this I was at a stop light and everything dimmed but the idle had dropped to about 500rpm and idled there. I think we're getting close to the problem (electrical)
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: P0321 & P0361 HELP!!!   P0321 & P0361 HELP!!! EmptyMon Mar 12, 2012 10:07 am

Time to say Duh.

I strongly suspect your problem Steph is the battery. When the battery's power output falls you get all kinds of anomalous problems.

Check your battery - turn car off and disconnect it (you will lose radio presets, make sure the Theftlock is OFF or you'll have to find the thread on here that says how to fix). Then clean the terminals (even if they look clean) and check the voltage. If you are running less than say 12.4V you probably have an issue. If you are running 10.something or 11.something you most likely need a new battery. If your installed battery is NOT a Group 79, you need a new one no matter what unless the battery you have (a) is an Optima (b) is vented and beats the 79's specs (there is no such animal). The OE Group 79 battery for the Riv is large and expensive for a reason: the Riv drains a huge parasitic load off that battery when parked. A battery that is not putting out 450 or more CCA's won't run it right, and a battery that's rated less than ~850 CCAs new won't last long at all. And a battery that is not vented thru plastic tubing thru the floor will outgas such that will rot the floor out under the battery.

Please post and tell us what you find and what you do about it.

Albertj
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