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 Scan's after the GEN V WOT and than a little cruising

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T Riley
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PostSubject: Scan's after the GEN V WOT and than a little cruising   Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:43 pm

http://www.scandepot.net/viewscan.php?pk=4797

I have been bed ridden sorta.. dad went and did a scan for me cool

Umm This is with the LQ4 files for the MAF if you would like to see my bin pm me with your email and i'll email it to you!!!

mods include Gen V, SSAC, 1.9RR, 3.3 pulley intake, N*, LQ4, and supporting mods..
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PostSubject: Re: Scan's after the GEN V WOT and than a little cruising   Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:10 pm

my guess is that 8* KR at 20mph is due to wheel spin and trac control doing its thing pulling timing rapidly.
other than that it's hard to tell how it is running since your dad didnt get it past 60mph or see the top of 2nd.

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PostSubject: Re: Scan's after the GEN V WOT and than a little cruising   Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:13 pm

Mr.Riviera wrote:
my guess is that 8* KR at 20mph is due to wheel spin and trac control doing its thing pulling timing rapidly.
other than that it's hard to tell how it is running since your dad didnt get it past 60mph or see the top of 2nd.


ya.. i know he let off a little bit too halfway through the WOT run...
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PostSubject: Re: Scan's after the GEN V WOT and than a little cruising   Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:46 am

O2s are wild and lean, likely a contributor to the KR or a result of the wheelspin/trac. Has your torque management been disabled? Please scan for MAP KPa instead of "boost". Also scan for IPW (injector pulse width). Is this street gas or E85?

If you want to send me your .bin I can help you figure out your tuning, but not from that scan... wink
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PostSubject: Re: Scan's after the GEN V WOT and than a little cruising   Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:09 am

Scan isn't very good resolution, not enough to tune from. Besides, no WOT tuning until you've tuned both idle and cruise first. Oh, there's a mistake in your sig, should say under rated.

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'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
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PostSubject: Re: Scan's after the GEN V WOT and than a little cruising   Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:28 am

Are you running the 3.1 pulley on the GenV with 1.9 rockers? Do you at least have PEMs or headers? Some more info on your mods will help with the tuning/scan reviewing too. Don't you have big injectors too? We really do need to know all this stuff to be able to properly analyze a tune.
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PostSubject: Re: Scan's after the GEN V WOT and than a little cruising   Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:56 pm

deekster_caddy wrote:
Are you running the 3.1 pulley on the GenV with 1.9 rockers? Do you at least have PEMs or headers? Some more info on your mods will help with the tuning/scan reviewing too. Don't you have big injectors too? We really do need to know all this stuff to be able to properly analyze a tune.

RIGHT now.. mods are 3.3, Gen V, SSAC headers, 1.9RR, N* with lq4, and supporting mods.. I am selling the 79# injectors because they are ginormous

I am getting 42.5 lb injectors really soon!
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T Riley
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PostSubject: Re: Scan's after the GEN V WOT and than a little cruising   Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:33 am

http://www.scandepot.net/viewscan.php?pk=4801

heres a little idling and slow cruising
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PostSubject: Re: Scan's after the GEN V WOT and than a little cruising   Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:02 am

Now that's more like it. Look at frames 116-on, where LTFT is lean. For every one that is a +% value, check the corresponding MAFF value and adjust your BIN's MAFF table at that MAFF value a +1% amount. For example, you subtract 1.24 from that MAFF value in your BIN's MAFF table. Only do 1 % per row at first.

Flash, reset your PCM, scan again, and see if it made a difference. You should see your LTFTs go down by about 1%. If the report is good, you can start changing by more than 1% until all of your LTFTs are near zero. Ideally you want them to be between -2 and 0. They'll never be exactly zero because of things like wind, hills, and air temps.

DO NOT CHANGE MAFF VALUES MORE THAN 1% UNTIL YOU KNOW. Some scanners have the +/- values mixed up, so you think you're rich and you're actually lean!

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'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


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T Riley
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PostSubject: Re: Scan's after the GEN V WOT and than a little cruising   Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:50 pm

AA wrote:
Now that's more like it. Look at frames 116-on, where LTFT is lean. For every one that is a +% value, check the corresponding MAFF value and adjust your BIN's MAFF table at that MAFF value a +1% amount. For example, you subtract 1.24 from that MAFF value in your BIN's MAFF table. Only do 1 % per row at first.

Flash, reset your PCM, scan again, and see if it made a difference. You should see your LTFTs go down by about 1%. If the report is good, you can start changing by more than 1% until all of your LTFTs are near zero. Ideally you want them to be between -2 and 0. They'll never be exactly zero because of things like wind, hills, and air temps.

DO NOT CHANGE MAFF VALUES MORE THAN 1% UNTIL YOU KNOW. Some scanners have the +/- values mixed up, so you think you're rich and you're actually lean!
Thanks AA!! I'd give you a + but i can't rolleyes

Anyway Umm have you heard of the MAF calculator? I am using this right now....... it's pretty good so far i think
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PostSubject: Re: Scan's after the GEN V WOT and than a little cruising   Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:45 pm

AA... Umm you say to Reset the PCM.. after doing a flash does it do this automatically?
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PostSubject: Re: Scan's after the GEN V WOT and than a little cruising   Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:51 pm

Yes, I have a MAF calculator, but I also created my own in Excel. It works with KR, too, and graphs before and after fuel curves.

Like a math calculator, I recommend doing it manually until you understand how it works, then use the calc for when you're doing scans & tunes more frequently.

When you flash your PCM, them should be an option to reset the fuel maps. Check it! This makes all LTFTs return to zero, so more accurate results for your next scan. You won't need to wait for the PCM to 'learn' the new fuel curve, like a lot of folks will tell you.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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T Riley
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PostSubject: Re: Scan's after the GEN V WOT and than a little cruising   Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:59 pm

AA wrote:
Yes, I have a MAF calculator, but I also created my own in Excel. It works with KR, too, and graphs before and after fuel curves.

Like a math calculator, I recommend doing it manually until you understand how it works, then use the calc for when you're doing scans & tunes more frequently.

When you flash your PCM, them should be an option to reset the fuel maps. Check it! This makes all LTFTs return to zero, so more accurate results for your next scan. You won't need to wait for the PCM to 'learn' the new fuel curve, like a lot of folks will tell you.

hmmm.. i'll check this out man cool
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PostSubject: Re: Scan's after the GEN V WOT and than a little cruising   Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:17 pm

Here's another tip - try waiting until you see your STFTs in a given range start to drop. When STFTs get close to 0, see what your MAF Hz and LTFT is. The LTFT represents the change you need to make to the MAF, but only after STFTs settle down. That's the part that takes time.

Also, you don't want to do too much tuning with no load on the engine. Tune your idle while in gear, not in neutral. Then watch your TP% and do 10% throttle, starts and stops, unitl STFTs settle down, then adjust for LTFT. Then do 20% throttle, repeat...

once you get up around 30-35% throttle you will start to encounter boost, at which point you stop getting usable STFT and LTFT readings. This is where it gets more difficult. But that should get you started.
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PostSubject: Re: Scan's after the GEN V WOT and than a little cruising   Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:51 pm

Quote :
The LTFT represents the change you need to make to the MAF, but only after STFTs settle down. That's the part that takes time.
That's true, but resetting fuel trims makes this happen instantly, so your STFTs are your LTFTs. There isn't any history to cause delay, no learning, so no need to wait for it to settle.

Agree, tune for idle in gear, not neutral. Good tip.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: Scan's after the GEN V WOT and than a little cruising   Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:53 pm

true, if you are scanning just after a fuel trim reset the STFTs are somewhat meaningful on the early passes. But for example, rev the engine to 2000 RPM in neutral and hold it there. Watch your STFTs and LTFTs settle out. Many times the LTFT will be different from what you thought it was going to turn out to be. That's why letting STFTs settle and tuning for LTFTs are more meaningful. Sometimes it takes a couple drive cycles to see them settle in.

Another example - the same RPM and MAF range during light acceleration, but as you go through different gears the load changes, and so do the fuel trims. One tuner advises to only record the trims in 3rd gear for consistency.
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PostSubject: Re: Scan's after the GEN V WOT and than a little cruising   Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:47 am

Ok, I wasn't saying to tune using STFT, I meant that LTFT should settle very quickly after a fuel trim reset. Maybe I'm wrong on this? Always worked for me.

I mostly scan in OD for cruise, because I think it best represents my average driving behavior, but I have done a slow run in 3rd to see every little MAFF value. It's not a bad way to do it.

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'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: Scan's after the GEN V WOT and than a little cruising   Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:52 pm

Not to highjack Travis's thread but I'm going to try to do some tuning on my 3.4/1.9 setup soon. I don't know how well it will work since i dont have a plog just yet but I wanna see what i can do with it (especially since I'll be leaving the car home for the semester and I should be able to score one by Christmas). Anyway my big question is what's really the best way to scan. I know how to do WOT scanning, but from what I'm reading here it seems the cruise tuning should be taken care of first. What is the best way to "cruise" tune? Should it be approached by scanning on a drive that best represents my average daily commute? For me this would mostly be city driving, 45 mph etc. Would that yield good enough information?
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PostSubject: Re: Scan's after the GEN V WOT and than a little cruising   Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:57 pm

Cruise tuning is not very different from WOT tuning, just using less throttle, and more consistent. Do some scanning while you accelerate at 10% throttle, then at 20% throttle, at 30% throttle, and you should have a good feeling for what needs to be changed. Watch your LTFTs and MAF Hz during this stage.
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PostSubject: Re: Scan's after the GEN V WOT and than a little cruising   Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:34 pm

http://www.scandepot.net/viewscan.php?pk=4808

Did a scan... LTFT are fuggged up
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PostSubject: Re: Scan's after the GEN V WOT and than a little cruising   Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:44 pm

I do "cruise" tuning with cruise control engaged.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: Scan's after the GEN V WOT and than a little cruising   Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:52 pm

AA wrote:
I do "cruise" tuning with cruise control engaged.

i don't have a cruise anymore cyclops
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PostSubject: Re: Scan's after the GEN V WOT and than a little cruising   Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:08 am

98riviera98 wrote:
http://www.scandepot.net/viewscan.php?pk=4808

Did a scan... LTFT are fuggged up
Whatever you did, try doing the opposite. If you cut fuel by 1%, take your previous BIN and add 1% to each row instead.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: Scan's after the GEN V WOT and than a little cruising   Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:43 pm

AA wrote:
98riviera98 wrote:
http://www.scandepot.net/viewscan.php?pk=4808

Did a scan... LTFT are fuggged up
Whatever you did, try doing the opposite. If you cut fuel by 1%, take your previous BIN and add 1% to each row instead.

dang.. i have been using this MAF calculator.. my tuner is gonna drive out to me and help me out...
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PostSubject: Re: Scan's after the GEN V WOT and than a little cruising   Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:23 pm

Told you about using the calculator... nono

Learn how first, then worry about being fast at it.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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