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 Write-Up: Fuel Pump/Sending Unit (NA Series II)

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97Riv3.8
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PostSubject: Write-Up: Fuel Pump/Sending Unit (NA Series II)   Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:56 am

See write-up below, and additional write-up here:
http://rivperformance.editboard.com/t6381p60-write-up-fuel-pump-sending-unit-na-series-ii#102113


The fuel pump died on my cousin's 95 Rivera N/A and I took off the access panel and found that the lock ring is rusted really bad i did a search and found the GM sells the top ring but the bottom ring is so bad I think it will just disintegrate as I try to remove the pump. before I try to remove it I was wondering can the lower ring be replaced or are we screwed. I'll post a pic in a few.
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Fuel Pump/Sending Unit (NA Series II)   Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:04 am

The lower ring is molded into the plastic tank.
Before working on it continue to soak all of it with a good penetrating spray and take your time tapping on the steel removable ring with a brass drift / punch and try to free it up without hacking up the gas tank.
Be prepared by buying a new seal and metal lock ring for installation.
Good Luck.
Look at the Write Ups section on here, I think there is one for this job that has some good pictures.
Here is a link that might be useful. Look through the whole thing, page two has a pic of what your dealing with.
http://rivperformance.editboard.com/series-i-engine-transmission-f13/write-up-walbro-255-lph-fuel-pump-t2918.htm
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97Riv3.8
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Fuel Pump/Sending Unit (NA Series II)   Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:16 am





Write-up is continued below.
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97Riv3.8
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Fuel Pump/Sending Unit (NA Series II)   Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:18 am

thanks I have it soaking in some PB Blaster. Hopefully it wont get messed up too bad.
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Fuel Pump/Sending Unit (NA Series II)   Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:18 am

Re-Read the post above, I added a LINK to a similar problem. might not be as bad as yours though.
That looks BAD.
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ibmoses
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Fuel Pump/Sending Unit (NA Series II)   Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:31 pm

Be sure and use a vacum cleaner or some other method of removing the loose rust and other debris to prevent it from falling in the tank.

Bert tavis
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Fuel Pump/Sending Unit (NA Series II)   Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:50 pm

I just went out to try it and the upper and lower rings are just falling apart. If worse comes to worse I know there is a 95 Riv in a junk yard near me may be I can get a ring off of that some how hoping it is not as bad as this one.
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Fuel Pump/Sending Unit (NA Series II)   Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:53 pm

The new ring from GM with the proper O-ring / gasket for it is about $10.00. Don't try to use old parts there.
I have also seen people post that the locking ring is available aftermarket at the auto parts stores. IDK, for sure, I've only purchased from GM.
If you need the 95 junkyard tank assembly because of the rotted base, that's a different story. And try to keep the fuel pump from the junk yard tank. The fuel pump housing and level sensor will come in handy later. Hell you might get a tank assembly with a good pump in it.
You can test it with an Ohmmeter.
But still get a new GM or good aftermarket lock ring and gasket if you are going to open up this new/used tank.


Last edited by Rickw on Sun Nov 15, 2009 1:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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97Riv3.8
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Fuel Pump/Sending Unit (NA Series II)   Sun Nov 15, 2009 1:04 pm

Oh of coarse I am getting a new gasket I am not sure if my cousin will get a used pump are not. anybody who uses the old gasket is just dumb. I am talking about the rings there has to be a way to separate the lower ring from the tank. This is one of the reasons I am personally a Mopar guy. this is just a stupid design to me. On My Dodge intrepid the pump is held in with an aluminum clamp that won't rust and if for some reason it does become seized you won't be f***ed as it will still be somewhat easily removed. Sorry for the rant.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Fuel Pump/Sending Unit (NA Series II)   Sun Nov 15, 2009 1:15 pm

By looking at your pic's it looks like you have an extreme challenge on your hands.
Since the car won't run because of a bad fuel pump, it would be worth your while and time to find out how much this used tank assembly will cost.
You can easily see if it is as corroded as the one you have, as you know, by removing the access plate.
Having / saving the spare plastic container that the fuel pump is mounted in will allow you to buy just the pump ( cheap) on Ebay and not the whole assembly from GM and replace only the pump.
I recently got a pump with all necessary hose's, etc. on Ebay for about $50.00 shipped.
And that was for a SC engine which is generally more expensive. The Non- SC is cheaper.
The whole assembly from GM can be several hundred dollars.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Fuel Pump/Sending Unit (NA Series II)   Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:09 am

The bad news is that I've heard many similar situations on GMs that require gas tank replacement.

You are doing the right thing soaking it in blaster, but even that may not be enough.

Good luck!
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Fuel Pump/Sending Unit (NA Series II)   Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:04 am

well we got it out yesterday. The lower ring was salvageable but the upper ring came out in a billion pieces. I took some pics but have to go to work I'll post them when I get off work. The car feels like it is running smoother now.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Fuel Pump/Sending Unit (NA Series II)   Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:32 pm


The Lower ring was not in great shape but it still could be used.

Old Pump

New Pump

We put some anti-seize in hoping that if this ever has to be done again it will not rust together.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Fuel Pump/Sending Unit (NA Series II)   Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:43 pm

nice job.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Fuel Pump/Sending Unit (NA Series II)   Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:06 pm

Yes, nice job. Unfortunately the antisieze won't do a heck of a lot of good there. It helps in threads, hubs and such, but that spot is going to get damp and sand/salt will sit up there, even through 'undercarriage' washes at the car wash.

Glad to see it fixed!
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Fuel Pump/Sending Unit (NA Series II)   Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:18 pm

i agree. if corrosion is a problem in your area, just pull the carpet now and again spray with W-D wipe clean...good to go
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Fuel Pump/Sending Unit (NA Series II)   Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:14 am

OH well it was worth a try though. thanks.
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PostSubject: Fuel pump replacment- how screwed am I?   Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:55 pm

I bought another 97 riv with a bad fuel pump. This was a friend's car that was taken to a shop when it died. The shop diagnosed it as a bad pump, went to change it and said the tank was rusted out and would need to be replaced. They didnt want to do the work so gave me the car for next to nothing. I knew the tank its self could not be rusted out being plastic, so I assumed they saw the rusty ring and went with the whole tank being bad. I picked it up and went to pull the sending unit today to find either the shop had either removed the ring or it completely rusted away, the unit pulled right out without doing anything. Looking at the tank, they were nice enough to get chunks of shit in there that I now have to clean out, but the bigger problem is the ring on top of the tank is pretty well shot. I think there are 2 usable tabs left on it.
What can I do short of replacing the whole tank? I found a NIB tank on craigslist local to me for $200, but would rather not go through the work of replacing something that appears to have the car built around it. And also, is the L67 and L36 pump the same? I saw a bare delco pump on ebay but they specify L67, but this is an L36. And heres the best pic I could take of my mess.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Fuel Pump/Sending Unit (NA Series II)   Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:07 pm

I can't see the usable locking tabs on that tank in this picture, although you say there are two.
Even if there are two that are there, are they able to capture the locking cam and seal and are they enough to prevent a leak.?


Last edited by Rickw on Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Fuel Pump/Sending Unit (NA Series II)   Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:35 pm

Its hard to see, But there are 2 that look almost usable. I don't know if they will hold anything though.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Fuel Pump/Sending Unit (NA Series II)   Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:41 pm

Is the car worth putting another tank and pump in it, if you can find one?
What condition is the car in, how many miles, etc.
Would it be better to part it out.?
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Fuel Pump/Sending Unit (NA Series II)   Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:33 pm

If the car is worth saving, then it's worth replacing the tank... and $200 sounds like a good price. As bad as this tank is placed, the '90's T-Birds and Cougars actually had the driveshaft running through it.

The two '97 engines did use different fuel pumps, the supercharged models having a higher-volume pump and a 2-speed control module for it in the trunk... At the moment I can't tell if the connections at the tank are the same or not. Perhaps someone with a '97 FSM handy could tell.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Fuel Pump/Sending Unit (NA Series II)   Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:36 pm

Eldo wrote:
If the car is worth saving, then it's worth replacing the tank... and $200 sounds like a good price. As bad as this tank is placed, the '90's T-Birds and Cougars actually had the driveshaft running through it.

The two '97 engines did use different fuel pumps, the supercharged models having a higher-volume pump and a 2-speed control module for it in the trunk... At the moment I can't tell if the connections at the tank are the same or not. Perhaps someone with a '97 FSM handy could tell.
I didn't notice the NIB for $200.00 or i would have never mentioned parting it out.
Mybad.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Fuel Pump/Sending Unit (NA Series II)   Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:39 pm

Well, the car is in excellent shape, no rust, minor scrape on the front bumper, immaculate interior. Has anyone tried rigging something up for tank with bolts or something to hold the sending unit in?
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Fuel Pump/Sending Unit (NA Series II)   Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:48 pm

If the car is in that good of shape, why micky mouse it and chance a fuel leak.
Buy the new tank and pump and turn the car over for a profit.
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