HomeDashboardFAQSearchRiviera Questions & AnswersWrite-Ups IndexRegisterRelated LinksMemberlistLog in
Share | 
 

 Groaning Wheel When Turning

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
crosss3
Amateur


Name : Steve
Joined : 2009-11-18
Post Count : 38
Merit : 0

PostSubject: Groaning Wheel When Turning   Fri Dec 18, 2009 9:01 am

I just started to notice that when im going slow and turning a corner or pulling into a parking space my right front wheel is making a whining groaning sound. Kind of like when you rub your arm against leather. Any idea what this might be? Could it just be the cold weather?
Back to top Go down
albertj
Guru
avatar

Name :
Location : Finger Lakes of New York State
Joined : 2007-05-31
Post Count : 6674
Merit : 123

PostSubject: Re: Groaning Wheel When Turning   Fri Dec 18, 2009 9:31 am

depends on the sound. Sometimes this is just tire rubbing on the inner fender. Sometimes is power steering hoses. Sometimes is CV joint. Sometimes is normal (a whine when you turn the wheel to lock and hold it is normal; however be advised that PS units don't like that and it's a sure way to break them).

Are you moving or still when it groans?

Albertj


Last edited by albertj on Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
crosss3
Amateur


Name : Steve
Joined : 2009-11-18
Post Count : 38
Merit : 0

PostSubject: Re: Groaning Wheel When Turning   Fri Dec 18, 2009 9:35 am

I don't even have to have the wheel turned all the way. And it doesn't happen all the time. Sometimes after I have been driving it for awhile others when I just start driving. No noise when i take a turn or corner going above 25mph. Could it just be a bad ball joint or the Y joint going bad?
Back to top Go down
woggy
Enthusiast
avatar

Name : Paul
Age : 55
Location : Altoona, Florida (Somewhere in the ocala national forest)
Joined : 2009-04-28
Post Count : 201
Merit : 7

PostSubject: Re: Groaning Wheel When Turning   Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:59 am

sounds like a wheel bearing is gone bye bye!
Back to top Go down
duckstu
Member


Name : Stuart
Joined : 2009-11-23
Post Count : 86
Merit : 10

PostSubject: Re: Groaning Wheel When Turning   Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:09 am

I have that noise also. And both of my front wheel bearings are brand new.

The noise is a groan,...but strangely enough it doesn;t sound like power steering. Almost like the tire is groaning.

Besides the new wheel bearings, I also have new struts, new strut mounts and new upper bearings.

Not sure what's left to replace.
Back to top Go down
albertj
Guru
avatar

Name :
Location : Finger Lakes of New York State
Joined : 2007-05-31
Post Count : 6674
Merit : 123

PostSubject: Re: Groaning Wheel When Turning   Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:27 am

duckstu wrote:
I have that noise also. And both of my front wheel bearings are brand new.

The noise is a groan,...but strangely enough it doesn;t sound like power steering. Almost like the tire is groaning.

Besides the new wheel bearings, I also have new struts, new strut mounts and new upper bearings.

Not sure what's left to replace.

You can get a noise and 'memory steer' if the strut bearings (the upper bearings) are installed upside down.

Albertj
Back to top Go down
crosss3
Amateur


Name : Steve
Joined : 2009-11-18
Post Count : 38
Merit : 0

PostSubject: Re: Groaning Wheel When Turning   Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:43 am

Is this something I need to worry about right away or something I can wait a little while to get it looked at?
Back to top Go down
duckstu
Member


Name : Stuart
Joined : 2009-11-23
Post Count : 86
Merit : 10

PostSubject: Re: Groaning Wheel When Turning   Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:12 pm

albertj wrote:

You can get a noise and 'memory steer' if the strut bearings (the upper bearings) are installed upside down.

Albertj

I put them in the way the originals came out (ridges up). I even tried to see if they'd work the other way around,...but it would have been ridge to ridge, and they wouldn't have had a way to stay centered.


What I do remember just now is the rubber upper spring isolators were squished out and touching the strut mount. I believe it is a failure in design (typical of GM suspension).

There should be a metal upper spring perch that goes all the way out to the edge of the rubber isolator and then curves down and around the outside a bit to fully capture the isolator. On this car it is only above, and does not go down the sides of the rubber isolator at all. So when the rubber ages a bit,..it starts to make contact with the strut mount.

And the bottom of the strut mount is coated in rubber,....so it's rubber against rubber when you turn the wheel. I think that may be what's happening. New rubbers would help,...or a spacer that moves the metal spring seat farther away from the strut mount (which will increase ride height). Or a properly designed upper spring perch.

Here's a professional drawing of what I mean.

Green.. is the strut mount
Black... is the metal upper spring perch.
Purple. is the rubber spring isolator.
Orange is the coil spring.

The top pic is what ours probably looked like when new.

The middle pic is what they look like when the rubber is a few years old. The rubber is now touching the strut mount and starts making a groaning noise when the wheel is turned. (at the location of the Red arrow)

The bottom is what a proper design would have looked like (and does look like in every other brand of car I've ever seen).
Back to top Go down
Rickw
Guru


Name : Rick
Age : 58
Location : Lancaster, MA
Joined : 2008-09-13
Post Count : 6074
Merit : 104

PostSubject: Re: Groaning Wheel When Turning   Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:44 pm

Albert,
What happened to the pic.??????
Back to top Go down
albertj
Guru
avatar

Name :
Location : Finger Lakes of New York State
Joined : 2007-05-31
Post Count : 6674
Merit : 123

PostSubject: Re: Groaning Wheel When Turning   Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:05 pm

Rickw wrote:
Albert,
What happened to the pic.??????

dunno

No kidding, I can't find it, either. AA probably knows.

For the rest of you: on the site in a suspension thread we had a photo of this problem.



Albertj
Back to top Go down
albertj
Guru
avatar

Name :
Location : Finger Lakes of New York State
Joined : 2007-05-31
Post Count : 6674
Merit : 123

PostSubject: Re: Groaning Wheel When Turning   Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:23 pm

duckstu wrote:
albertj wrote:

You can get a noise and 'memory steer' if the strut bearings (the upper bearings) are installed upside down.

Albertj

I put them in the way the originals came out (ridges up). I even tried to see if they'd work the other way around,...but it would have been ridge to ridge, and they wouldn't have had a way to stay centered.


What I do remember just now is the rubber upper spring isolators were squished out and touching the strut mount. I believe it is a failure in design (typical of GM suspension).

There should be a metal upper spring perch that goes all the way out to the edge of the rubber isolator and then curves down and around the outside a bit to fully capture the isolator. On this car it is only above, and does not go down the sides of the rubber isolator at all. So when the rubber ages a bit,..it starts to make contact with the strut mount.

And the bottom of the strut mount is coated in rubber,....so it's rubber against rubber when you turn the wheel. I think that may be what's happening. New rubbers would help,...or a spacer that moves the metal spring seat farther away from the strut mount (which will increase ride height). Or a properly designed upper spring perch.

Here's a professional drawing of what I mean.

Green.. is the strut mount
Black... is the metal upper spring perch.
Purple. is the rubber spring isolator.
Orange is the coil spring.

The top pic is what ours probably looked like when new.

The middle pic is what they look like when the rubber is a few years old. The rubber is now touching the strut mount and starts making a groaning noise when the wheel is turned. (at the location of the Red arrow)

The bottom is what a proper design would have looked like (and does look like in every other brand of car I've ever seen).

What year is your riv, again?!?

On my strut mounts, the *tops* are rubber on Monroe and Gabriel replacement mounting plates, and a cork/rubber composite is on top on the GM OEs. And there is a hard plastic cone gadget that fits between the strut bearing and spring. I have a '98; wasn't yours a '97 or earlier? They have a different mount scheme and I am not sure if there is or is not a hard plastic cone gadget.

If yours is a '98 you have the wrong mount and/or missing parts.

I am guessing someone may have mis-assembled your mounts before you got the car. Don't wig out -- it has happened to *a lot* of Riv owners matter of fact I bet that it's contributed to a lot of them being traded or sold cheap.

I think at minimum we need to get someone with yor year riv to comment and/or post a pic.

Albertj
Back to top Go down
Rickw
Guru


Name : Rick
Age : 58
Location : Lancaster, MA
Joined : 2008-09-13
Post Count : 6074
Merit : 104

PostSubject: Re: Groaning Wheel When Turning   Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:26 pm

I put new everthing in when I did my front struts and I think I'm starting to hear a noise from either the upper bearing or the rubber.
Has not been a very long time since replacement, but then again it is getting very cold and could just be the rubber.
If it should get any worse I will have the shop drop the strut from the upper mount and inspect the rubber as well as inject some fresh grease into the bearing with a needle tip adapter.
Back to top Go down
Ship
Fanatic
avatar

Name : Dave
Age : 68
Location : Weymouth, MA
Joined : 2009-01-01
Post Count : 312
Merit : 12

PostSubject: Re: Groaning Wheel When Turning   Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:53 pm

I had the same "sound" when turning right on either my 96 or 97 Riv (can't remember now its been so long ago that I had them) and it turned out to be a loose motor mount....may not be related to what you're describing...but it doesn't hurt to look into.
Back to top Go down
duckstu
Member


Name : Stuart
Joined : 2009-11-23
Post Count : 86
Merit : 10

PostSubject: Re: Groaning Wheel When Turning   Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:38 pm

albertj wrote:
If yours is a '98 you have the wrong mount and/or missing parts.

I am guessing someone may have mis-assembled your mounts before you got the car. Don't wig out -- it has happened to *a lot* of Riv owners matter of fact I bet that it's contributed to a lot of them being traded or sold cheap.

I think at minimum we need to get someone with yor year riv to comment and/or post a pic.

Albertj


Mine is a '97.

I'm pretty sure they struts in there were the origionals. They had GM stampings and were very rusty. I can't imagine they had been replaced.

My '97 shares strut mounts with the '95 & '96. Not sure about the upper spring perches.

It only takes 8-10 minutes to remove a strut. Perhaps I'll do that Sunday and post actual pictures. Then I can use an angle grinder or hack saw to trim down the rubber to get rid of the noise.
Back to top Go down
duckstu
Member


Name : Stuart
Joined : 2009-11-23
Post Count : 86
Merit : 10

PostSubject: Re: Groaning Wheel When Turning   Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:40 pm

Rickw wrote:
Albert,
What happened to the pic.??????

It was just gone for a couple minutes while I added the red arrow and re-hosted it.

Sorry about that.
Back to top Go down
albertj
Guru
avatar

Name :
Location : Finger Lakes of New York State
Joined : 2007-05-31
Post Count : 6674
Merit : 123

PostSubject: Re: Groaning Wheel When Turning   Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:53 pm

Stuart, where does the (plastic) bearing go in your strut diagram?

Also where is the plastic spring seat? see the Raybestos picture:

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1031516

Here is the Moog set:

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=274559

Points are:

1) That rubber isolator is intentionally flat like in the pic.

2) your drawing does not show the plastic spring seat nor does it show the strut bearing - leading me to think your spring seats and strut bearings are missing - at the very least they are missing from your drawing. Or did you just not draw them?

Your thoughts? Please tell us. I mean, I don't have your year Riv so I can't really say, but I really think you might simply have got the car with struts misassembled and now that you put new parts on it's making noise.

Albertj
Back to top Go down
duckstu
Member


Name : Stuart
Joined : 2009-11-23
Post Count : 86
Merit : 10

PostSubject: Re: Groaning Wheel When Turning   Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:11 pm

I just didn't draw them. Trying to keep it simple. The bearings would be inbetween the black seat and the strut mount (which is unusual,..in most cars the bearing is in the strut mount,..and the spring seat stays with the strut ahaftm,,,and the shaft and seat turn together. In this system the shaft stays with the strut mount,..and the shaft rotates in the strut bottom when the wheel is turned. The bearing at the toip is only for the spring.

And a big bearing it is. I imagine bearings 1/2 the size or ones an inch in diameter in the upper strut mounts would cause less noise.

My strut top is assembled the way the origional one was.
Back to top Go down
albertj
Guru
avatar

Name :
Location : Finger Lakes of New York State
Joined : 2007-05-31
Post Count : 6674
Merit : 123

PostSubject: Re: Groaning Wheel When Turning   Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:17 pm

OK thank you I get it.

At the moment the only thing I can think of is maybe the bearing might be upside down. If so you might need to get new plastic upper spring seats.

Again since I have a '98 I'm kind of out of advice without a photo and without the owners of your year Riv chiming in.

ALbertj
Back to top Go down
 
Groaning Wheel When Turning
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Groaning Wheel When Turning
» Noise when turning steering wheel
» Horn relay clicks when steering wheel is turned.
» Steering shudder, pump or rack noise?
» Grumble when turning right at low speeds

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Riviera Performance ::   General Tech :: Brakes & Suspension-
Jump to: