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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: Front seat interchangability   Front seat interchangability - Page 2 EmptyFri Jan 08, 2010 6:02 pm

Which part of their website are they on.?
They have seats made for almost everything.
Can't seem to find the GTS2.
They are not Jeep seats, are they./

NEVER MIND. YOU MEAN GTS II.
I found them. DB

For anyone else that's interested, here they are: http://www.corbeau.com/products/reclining_seats/gts_ii/
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robotennis61
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PostSubject: Re: Front seat interchangability   Front seat interchangability - Page 2 EmptyFri Jan 08, 2010 6:16 pm

they are really good seats and they also have ready made brackets that sell for the riv. or you can fab your own.
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: Front seat interchangability   Front seat interchangability - Page 2 EmptyFri Jan 08, 2010 6:20 pm

I've looked at their Seat heaters and Hand Inflatable Lumbar supports. How can a lumbar support be mounted under your ass, as the picture shows.?
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robotennis61
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PostSubject: Re: Front seat interchangability   Front seat interchangability - Page 2 EmptyFri Jan 08, 2010 6:21 pm

ha ha! they install it before shipping out rick! and i also believe that one can remove it in case of failure with out tools..its a cool company
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Front seat interchangability   Front seat interchangability - Page 2 EmptySat Jan 09, 2010 5:04 pm

turtleman wrote:
I've considered getting them redone but that only takes care of the visual problems. I still have no lumbar in the drivers seat and the passenger will not tilt forward anymore - only backward (which I suspect may be fixable)


Depending on the shop you take it to, they may fix that too - you'd need to ask.

Lumbar in the drivers seat - if the motor is working the lumbars in the Buick seats are really simple, odds are you can fix it with pieces of light gauge coat hanger wire once you are in it. As for the passenger seat tilt, I think RockAuto sells the motors BUT it is as likely a switch or wiring problem, you'll need to poke around and see.

Albertj
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ibmoses
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PostSubject: Re: Front seat interchangability   Front seat interchangability - Page 2 EmptySat Jan 09, 2010 9:51 pm

turtleman wrote:
I've considered getting them redone but that only takes care of the visual problems. I still have no lumbar in the drivers seat and the passenger will not tilt forward anymore - only backward (which I suspect may be fixable)

Overall though I don't mind spending a few bucks to get seats that are not only in better shape but also an upgrade in options from what I have and like Rick said, this stuff is only getting harder and harder to find.

Check here:
http://www.car-part.com/

You might just find what you need nearby, at a fair price.


Bert tavis
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turtleman
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PostSubject: Re: Front seat interchangability   Front seat interchangability - Page 2 EmptyMon Jan 18, 2010 1:11 am

Well I bought em.
The seats relisted $25 cheaper and I snatched em up.
Total was $349.93 freight shipped.

I will definitely post a follow-up to the questions in this thread.

Assuming these seats go into my car fine, I will have both of my fronts for sale for near nothing if you want to pick up. I will not be keeping them for long if no one wants them because they are too large to store so let me know ASAP.
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turtleman
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PostSubject: Re: Front seat interchangability   Front seat interchangability - Page 2 EmptySat Jan 23, 2010 2:48 am

Well now it turns out there are 1998 Rivs that don't even have heated or memory seat on the driver which means I'm happy happy happy happy 'ed

It looks like I can swap the lower skin from one to the other but I have to do some deep investigation to see if I can swap the seat-back section. I need to use the new leather and new lumbar but keep my heat... hmm

I cannot see how you get the seat back apart from the base to start with. I'm kind of stuck there. Anyone know?
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turtleman
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PostSubject: Re: Front seat interchangability   Front seat interchangability - Page 2 EmptySat Jan 23, 2010 3:09 am

Passenger seat
Photobucket
Photobucket

The passenger seat wiring w/o the passenger heated seat option is very simple. It has a single 2-pin connector (w/ or w/o lumbar) that connects the seat's single harness to the car.

Photobucket
There's the floor once you take the drivers side out if you have the memory seat equipment.

Photobucket
There's another little single pin connector too that's almost hidden from sight. I don't think that was plugged into anything but I'm gonna double check.

Photobucket
That's the bottem of the drivers seat equipped with memory power seat and heat. The black box at the top is the heater module

If you have a drivers seat that doesn't have heat or memory power function, it's about as simple as the passenger. the only extra thing I see is the signal line for the seat belt which means its a 3-pin connector instead of a 2-pin but that's about it.
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PostSubject: Re: Front seat interchangability   Front seat interchangability - Page 2 EmptySat Jan 23, 2010 3:16 am

IIRC, the extra lower connector is the diagnostic connector for the memory module.
I also noticed an extra rheostat-connector in the seat bundle when I had mine out, for Park Ave's that included the recliner in the memory settings (which they should have done in our cars!)
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Front seat interchangability   Front seat interchangability - Page 2 EmptySat Jan 23, 2010 8:59 am

To get the covers off you need a set of wire cutters to cut the hog rings off.

To install the covers on your seats w/heat and memory you need to use a set of hog ring pliers and you'll need a few dozen rings.

In an earlier post I recommended getting the pliers and rings from Aubuchon Hardware. Because the poster was in Massachusetts, and hog rings are used to construct and repair lobster traps. Where you are (Illinois) probably your best bet is get them (by mail) from JC Whitney. When I have used it in the past, the 'economy' hog ring pliers kit lasted long enough to attach the rings, to do one set of seat covers. You may want to have a regular set of pliers also to cinch some of the rings further. With the economy kit what has happened to me is the rivet at the plier joint has loosened a little; you can whack it back with a hammer and bit but I guess it is fair to say it will last long enough to cinch those 100 rings it comes with. The pliers with the 400 ring set last longer (bought that kit once) but the plier ends don't really get into tight spaces. The 'professional' hog ring pliers are pretty nice; I bought one once but don't have it any more (it was stolen with other tools when I lived in Pittsburgh PA). And "professinal" has to be said tongue-in-cheek - the pro upholsterer I kew used an air tool to cinch those things, unless the air tool could not get into some crevice and then he used hand pliers I think from K-D.

Ironically - JCWhitney used to sell seat covers from Autocraft, whcih came with a set of stamped steel (instead of forged wire) hog ring pliers (and several dozen rings) that worked well for the most part. Problem with them was eventually the bit that squeezed the rings would bend out of shape.

All that said, you might want to check Google shopping or eBay for hog ring pliers that look like what JCW sells as 'professional' or for the K-D pliers - I am thinking odds are someone will have them for less than JCW is asking.

To get the old hog rings off - they are mild steel and a good pair of nippers will make short work of them. Nippers should be on the small side because with the contouring of the upholstery you will find hog rings behind those seams cinching the upholstery to wires in fairly tight places.

A 'plan b' would be to take the seats to an upholsterer to swap the covers for you. I can not see an upholster who knows what he/she's doing charging more than $75 or $50 cash to swap those covers. If you have the right tools and some experience it's maybe an hour to do the pair. If you have good tools and no experience it's maybe 2 hours. The hint is it's not all that difficult, you are merely going to have to find and cut a bunch of pesky little rings and reattach new ones thru the holes the old ones left behind to guide you.

Albertj
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: Front seat interchangability   Front seat interchangability - Page 2 EmptySat Jan 23, 2010 9:20 am

Good info Albert.
Codith, you can also look at Eastwood.com for hog ring pliers and hog rings, IIRC.
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turtleman
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turtleman

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PostSubject: Re: Front seat interchangability   Front seat interchangability - Page 2 EmptySun Jan 24, 2010 10:19 pm

I'm going to hopefully talk to someone tomorrow about doing it all for me sometime soon. If that doesn't work out, I'll probably do it myself. Right now, I just don't have too much time to find tools and learn a new trade and I kind of want it to just be done. That's my driver seat.

BTW, I used Lexol(sp?) leather seat cleaner and the conditioner on the new passenger seat before I put that one in and although it didn't impress me much at first, It made the leather very soft and healthy after the conditioner set in so I'd say that's good stuff. I'm going to try to use the cleaner and conditioner treatment twice a year or so to try to take the best care of these as I can. I did pay a few hundred for them after all.
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turtleman
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PostSubject: Re: Front seat interchangability   Front seat interchangability - Page 2 EmptyFri Jan 29, 2010 2:27 pm

Ok I took the two driver seats over to a place I was referred to called image upholstry. They are going to do the complex transfer of all the good to one seat.

Basically, I'm going to use my original seat bottom with the skin and cushion foams from the new and therefore also the newer style buttons. The heating element for the lower portion won't be touched other than switching out the cushioning foams. The top part will have basically the whole section of the new seat except it will have the heating element integrated into it from the original seat since the new one doesn't have heat. If for some reason that doesn't work out, then he has to transfer the skin to the original seat back and also the lumbar unit from the new one since my old one is broken. The motor basically broke off of the gearbox/actuator section.

Another thing to note that I suspected but wasn't sure about is that the 98 (and presumably 99) tan seats are a slightly lighter shade of tan then my original 97 seats. The difference in shade is not even noticable against the interior of the car but if you put the seats right next to eachother in a well lit room, the 97 seat looks a little more brown. Also the newer ones seem to possibly have a little more cushion to them in some spots but It's hard to really confirm that without seeing them all apart. For one, if you look at the pics above of the passenger seats, my original seat bottom looks very flat whereas the cushion of the newer seat concaves up from the seams more like my drivers seat does. I don't suspect that's just a wear thing because that would mean the less worn seat is flatter.

I paid $350 for the full set of seats and I'm going to pay $200 to have this operation done to my driver so it has added up a little but still not out there. I'll be fine with that since the end result : cost is still pretty good considering what I hear people paying to do anything like this.

I'll take a few more pictures ones I get the seats back of how they look in the car and also of the donor seat without the skins on it for reference.
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: Front seat interchangability   Front seat interchangability - Page 2 EmptyFri Jan 29, 2010 3:21 pm

$200.00 for all that work seems very fair. I wish i could find someone I trust around here.
In the future I'd like to have the leather removed and the foam trimmed to provide more side bolsters, so I don't slide around in the seat so much during spirited driving. Rather than buy completely different sport style seats, i wonder if these can be reworked like i want.
Oh and please take some pic's like you said of the seats without skin on them. I'd be interested in looking at them.
If you can possibly go to this guys shop and get some shots of the hog ring operation that would be cool too.
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robotennis61
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PostSubject: Re: Front seat interchangability   Front seat interchangability - Page 2 EmptyFri Jan 29, 2010 4:38 pm

about how much do the seats weigh individually turtle? they look heavy!
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turtleman
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PostSubject: Re: Front seat interchangability   Front seat interchangability - Page 2 EmptyFri Jan 29, 2010 5:55 pm

Ok so it turns out the heating element in the seat is the textbook definition of non-replaceable, which also means not seperable from the upholstry by any simple means. They called me up to have a look and decide what to do with it. Basically the seat upholstry or skin that you can remove is made up of a few layers. The leather you see is the primary layer but there are also a few very thin layers of fiber and thin insulation. This is all a unit piece and guess where the heating elements are. It's right in the middle of those layers and not accessable or even viewable unless you literally unstich the skin and then pull these layers apart and it is not manufactured in any way to make it in the least bit easy. btw the only way I could even really see how the seat skin is made up is because of the tear I have in it. If it weren't for that, I wouldn't even know even with the seats all taken apart and skins off.

(I originally thought that this heating element grid must be replaceable and therefore removable from the upholstry. I figured once I had the skin off and seperated from the cushion foams, I'd just see the wires there and be able to transfer them - not the case at all)

Basically what they're going to do is unstich the skins of the old seats and remove the heating element wires and their immediate sandwiching layers and add it to my new skins. They aren't going to unstich or take apart my new skin in any way but rather add this portion of the old skin making up the whole heating grid right to the new skin. It will still be above the cushion obviously and there's almost no real isulation there so it should work perfect. As far as I know, they are going to be using a special glue to add this skin layer, not sewing it.

Rick, I didn't have my camera with me when I went there but I'm going to make sure they leave the extra seat parts seperated so I can take pictures of all the nitty gritty. I don't think your idea of adding more side bolster is out of the question but the upholstry place would have to really know what they're doing and be friendly to customization. If I were to actually do that, I think I'd make sure they replace that entire section all the way around with a new custom-fitted leather piece to enclose the extra cushion area. (If you have heat you'd be in the same boat as me - you'd have to figure something out there)

As for weight of the seats, I'm not sure. They are decently heavy but they aren't quite as heavy as they look; that's the best way I can put it. I had really no trouble carrying them.
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turtleman
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PostSubject: Re: Front seat interchangability   Front seat interchangability - Page 2 EmptyFri Jan 29, 2010 6:06 pm

This is right out of my 1997 FSM - page 10-10-10 book 1 of 2

"Heated Seats

The heated seats consist of electronically operated heating coils incorporated directly into the seat cushion and seatback covers. Power to the coils is directed through a relay mounted under the seat near the motor assemblies. If diagnosis shows a nonfunctioning heater coil, refer to ELECTRICAL DIAGNOSIS 8A-143, the entire cover must be replaced."
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: Front seat interchangability   Front seat interchangability - Page 2 EmptyFri Jan 29, 2010 6:14 pm

turtleman wrote:
As for weight of the seats, I'm not sure. They are decently heavy but they aren't quite as heavy as they look; that's the best way I can put it. I had really no trouble carrying them.
Maybe 50 to 75 lbs. 50# isn't too uncomfortable to lift. The seat is just awkward to lift easily in my opinion.
What do you think,?
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turtleman
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PostSubject: Re: Front seat interchangability   Front seat interchangability - Page 2 EmptyFri Jan 29, 2010 6:20 pm

I'd guess in the 75lb range.
I definitely have a lot more of a hard time moving my subwoofer box somewhere. those are light compared to that.
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PostSubject: Re: Front seat interchangability   Front seat interchangability - Page 2 EmptySat Jan 30, 2010 12:45 am

We talked about this before, Cody, but I guess I should have printed the TSB regarding the replacement heaters...

1. Remove the seat back cover. Refer to Seat Back Cover and Pad Replacement -- Front in the Seats sub-section of the Service Manual.
2. Install the seat heat element.
* Remove the paper from the tape that is located on the back of the heat element.
* Carefully position and press the heat element onto the seat back cushion pad.
* Tuck the narrow connecting strips into the seat back cushion pad trenches.
3. Insert the seat heat element harness through a hole located in the right rear corner of the seat cushion trim cover and the seat cushion pad.

4. Connect the seat heat element GREEN electrical connector to the Heat Module GREEN electrical connector.
5. Cut off all of the old heat element harness from the seat back trim cover.

Important
Ensure the heat element is laying flat with no wrinkles on the seat back cushion pad.
6. Install the seat back cover. Refer to Seat Back Cover and Pad Replacement -- Front in the Seats sub-section of the Service Manual.
7. Ensure the seat heat function is operational.


Seat Cushion Heat Element Replacement -- Front
For 1995-1999 Aurora and Riviera

1. Remove the seat cushion cover. Refer to Seat Cushion Cover Replacement -- Front in the Seats sub-section of the Service Manual.
2. Install the seat heat element.
* Remove the paper from the tape that is located on the back of the heat element.
* Carefully position and press the heat element onto the seat cushion pad.
* Tuck the narrow connecting strips into the seat cushion pad trenches.
3. Insert the seat heat element harness through a hole located in the right rear corner of the seat cushion pad.

4. Connect the seat heat element BLACK electrical connector to the Heat Module BLACK electrical connector.
5. Cut off all of the old heat element harness from the seat cushion trim cover.

Important
Ensure the heat element is laying flat with no wrinkles on the seat cushion pad.
6. Install the seat cushion cover. Refer to Seat Cushion Cover Replacement -- Front in the Seats sub-section of the Service Manual.
7. Ensure the seat heat function is operational.
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Front seat interchangability   Front seat interchangability - Page 2 EmptySat Jan 30, 2010 3:00 am

Does the TSB show part #s for the replacement elements?

Albertj
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Eldo
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PostSubject: Re: Front seat interchangability   Front seat interchangability - Page 2 EmptySat Jan 30, 2010 3:42 am

albertj wrote:
Does the TSB show part #s for the replacement elements?

Albertj

Whoops, I didn't scroll down far enough.

1995-99 Rivieras:

25698796 - Seat cushion element
25698799 - Seat back element

Interestingly, but not surprisingly, for warranty work they allowed 1.5 hours to do both on the Park Ave, and 3 hours for the Riviera...
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Front seat interchangability   Front seat interchangability - Page 2 EmptySat Jan 30, 2010 1:51 pm

Monster shows ~$160.- for the cushion element, ~$120 for the seat element. Wonder whqat they look like and if an aftermarket element would work. There are 2 types aftermarket elements, one that's wires and the other that is a carbonfiber material:

http://www.heatedseatkits.com/heatedseatkits/index.html

At the moment these are $80.- the set (seat and back) so if they fit they might be a good alternative.


Below are new cool-or-heat elements

http://aftermarket-systems.com/

happy hunting

Albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Front seat interchangability   Front seat interchangability - Page 2 EmptySat Jan 30, 2010 2:32 pm

You can also try www.1aauto.com for seat heating elements.
Have not bought from them personally so can not vouch for products.
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