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 Front seat interchangability

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turtleman
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PostSubject: Re: Front seat interchangability   Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:55 pm

Mark I honestly don't see how I could do what you're saying. I'll post some pictures up and maybe you can show me more what you mean. Between me and people who do nothing but upholstry for a living, we couldn't see any simple way to isolate the heating element grid from the skin. Also is there any photo/diagram or description of the part numbers you posted?

I know they have these aftermarket heating kits but they don't use the factory module and button right? I would have to integrate a different system in and install it basically the same way I installed my OEM one as far as the element itsself goes. That doesn't do anything about my problem.

I picked up the seat this morning and cleaned and conditioned everything, then put it in. I will report if there is any change in the heater now. Pics of seat parts coming...
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Front seat interchangability   Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:12 pm

Actually, with the aftermarket seat heater kit you swap the element in place and use factory wiring. The elements are *very* similar; the reason I pointed the one out is they make the elements that go into most of the factory seats anyway. So if you buy from them you effectively don't have to pay the GM mark up. What I do not know, however, is whether there is a difference in the Riv seat heater elements because of the way the seats are sculpted.

See where I am going? You swap the heat elements and leave the wiring. You do need the wiring diagram for the new seat heaters so you wire the thermistor (for temp control) in. Did this onece on a Subaru I had, it did require reviewing the wiring diagrams but in hindsight it was not htat bad. There is really no other way to tell you that there is no magic in those seat heaters and they really don't vary much at all per application - only variation you *might* see is in how the grid is applied and if for whatever reason they are using a somewhat bigger or smaller grid. Then again the way to get around the grid problems is to use the carbon fiber version.

I mean - if this all leaves you uncomfortable then don't do it... it's just that I'd done that before, albeit with different vehicle, and it turned out not to be such a big deal.

If I was you, I'd go along with what your professional installer wants to do, though, in spite of whatever I might say in these posts.

Happy seating

Albertj
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turtleman
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PostSubject: Re: Front seat interchangability   Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:36 pm

Pictures of drivers seat

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back pocket removed - the top plastic part that hangs onto the bar to hold it to the seat is stapled to the pocket and requires some care to keep from ripping it off while removing it. The bottom two retainers are no big deal.

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those 4 pictures are the bottom seat skin. That one has had the layers removed to take out the heating element so all you see is the actual leather its self left over. The white part that goes across the crease of the seat is pretty much a fancy velcro to hold it to the cushion.
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There's a close-up of that

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That is how the bottom and some other parts inside the seat is held to the frame. That part is pretty easy to deal with.

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This is the cutout for the switches. It has a plastic piece that holds it to the frame too so don't forget to unfasten that when removing it.

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area where the back and bottom meet

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seat base - this one is a driver not equipped with heat or the memory functions so the wiring is simple. There is a single harness that starts at the switch panel and connection to the car is just one 3-pin plug.

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This was something that I couldn't find until they took it apart all the way and I saw it. This is how the base and back are held together. I believe that should be a T47 torx.

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driver seatbelt

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inside of seatback, again leather layer only, the thin innermost layers were removed with the heating element

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back of seatback cushion, you can also clearly see the lumbar mechanism - which is broken

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base cushion
You can also see those black strips where the velcro I mentioned above attatches. Its rather strong velcro so if you're taking it apart be gental as not to tear the strips off the skin or cushion instead of the the velcro pieces apart
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: Front seat interchangability   Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:04 pm

Thanks a lot for the Pic's. They will be helpfull
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98inSFl
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PostSubject: Re: Front seat interchangability   Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:25 pm

From what you just went through, can you tell me if the recliner motor is going to be as big pain in the butt as I think?
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: Front seat interchangability   Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:33 pm

Ed,
Removing the seat itself is not very difficult, finding the replacement motor and/or cable assembly to replace whatever is broken will probably be the biggest PIA.
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98inSFl
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PostSubject: Re: Front seat interchangability   Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:44 pm

I have had every part of my interior out (except the dash) in storage as I have replaced my center roof panel. The interior and body are very easy to service but I had not taken apart the seats and was curious how it looked in there to work on the recliner motors.

My seats , especially the passenger side were exposed to a year of rain, oddly it didnt destroy the leather but the recliner is stuck/shorted and I have to tilt the base of the seat to get it comfy enough to seat a passenger.
Spare parts should be close enough from a easy to locate junk aurora

Although not torn or destroyed I would love to eventually find a mint set of burgundy seats..Just a pipe dream perhaps .
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: Front seat interchangability   Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:48 pm

I forget you had gutted that car for semi-restoration. You know more about pulling this stuff out than I do obviously.
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98inSFl
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PostSubject: Re: Front seat interchangability   Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:51 pm

I have become very familiar with the way these things are assembled, so much so I turned this project from a fix and sell to a fix and keep, funny how some things can grow on ya!
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: Front seat interchangability   Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:24 pm

98inSFl wrote:
I have become very familiar with the way these things are assembled, so much so I turned this project from a fix and sell to a fix and keep, funny how some things can grow on ya!
Ed,
Is it partly because you have seen how well they are built or partly because you have put so much time and effort into it you do not want to part with it.???
I am curios, because I have found that i am extremely impressed with how well built my car is that I have no reason to replace it, just repair and modify it and be happy with it. Otherwise i would have bought another daily driver by now, but haven't.!! I generally haven't owned a car longer than 3 or 4 years before buying another.
What do you think about yours.???
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98inSFl
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PostSubject: Re: Front seat interchangability   Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:22 am

Its all a bond of hundreds of hours, several years of anticipation, the simplistic way a complex car can be broken down , the fact I need a decent car, the performance, the luxury, the leather, the way it all came together, the flaws it now has...well you get the point.

I dont believe in new cars even though I fix 3-10 yr old ones all day, I am hard on my rides and usually I am done with them (or they with me)after only a few years but this riv will most likely last me longer then my average.

What do I think? I think Buick needed to spend more time on some important things like the shocks/springs/brakes, the audio system, and the fine tune of the tranny ,but they were targeting geasers, not gearheads.

I love this car,shortfalls and all, just swapped 5 star rims off a 04 impala and got some Eagle RS-A police car takeoffs.
Time will tell.
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: Front seat interchangability   Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:41 am

After having critiqued someone recently for high jacking a thread, I say aw fuck it and agree totally with your assessment of the Riv.
I can totally appreciate your time and investment into the Riv before you even got it out of purgatory.
I used to make part of my living fixing other peoples cars for enjoyment, not any more.
As you say I also love this car's shortfalls and will continue to address it's shortcomings and perform upgrades and continue to enjoy the car. And as I continue to make changes and enjoy it even more, specifically the suspension upgrades and the powerplant changes that are available without killing the motor.


Last edited by Rickw on Sun Jan 31, 2010 1:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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98inSFl
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PostSubject: Re: Front seat interchangability   Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:57 am

Well this thread is totally and I hope temporally jacked, we could move this to another or its own new thread if anyone is annoyed...

As for seats and the rest of the 98 rivs here I am just happy to have it back running, all my tweaks will be simply moving around stock parts from other GM cars .

Still hoping to get first hand opinions on the difficulty level in accessing the seat recliner motor.
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: Front seat interchangability   Sun Jan 31, 2010 1:21 am

98inSFl wrote:
Still hoping to get first hand opinions on the difficulty level in accessing the seat recliner motor.
I guess pulling the seat (Easy) and looking at the pictures that Turtleman provided is not enough.
It'a fricken small electric motor and cable, how much easier can it get,. I'm sure you have done many before on other cars.
So don't disregard someone so quickly because they haven't actually laid hands on it in the past 24 hours.
You are SAE Certified, so what's the problem.


Last edited by Rickw on Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:58 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Eldo
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PostSubject: Re: Front seat interchangability   Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:47 pm

98inSFl wrote:
From what you just went through, can you tell me if the recliner motor is going to be as big pain in the butt as I think?

The recliner motor is very easy - it is mounted under the very front of the seat bottom, with cables that feed screws down the sides of the bottom. Everything is accessible when the seat is out.
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98inSFl
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PostSubject: Re: Front seat interchangability   Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:29 am

Rick, thanks, I saw turtlemans pics and remember that scene from when I rushed the seat install to make the car drivable when my last car got stolen. Perhaps I just didnt make myself clear, I had no time to figure out witch motor went to each seat direction and improperly assumed the recliner motor was in the seat back and the motor in front was a pump for the lumbar. Now that I have had more time to use the car I see the lumbar is not a pump style and the recliner is easy as pie.

Mark, Thanks that was what I was lacking.
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