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robotennis61
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PostSubject: Re: Low oilpressure, Oil pickup Stalactite   Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:36 pm

again,its great that they've fessed up. dealers look for situations that allow them to exercise their assholiness.
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PostSubject: Re: Low oilpressure, Oil pickup Stalactite   Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:52 pm

The dealer called last night, said car was fixed. I wasn't the one that answered phone so I'm not sure what they did exactly. I'll find out later today when I pickup car, and give them the bill for what I spend flushing the motor.
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PostSubject: Re: Low oilpressure, Oil pickup Stalactite   Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:00 pm

I picked up the car. It seems to be running fine, only noise raises with speed, but not engine rpm(so I would assume it is coming from something turning at wheel speed, not engine speed), dealer thought it was a wheel bearing. Oil pressure when hot was steady 48psi at 1400rpm cruise, not the 60psi@1850 spec, but close and the oil is thinner, rpm lower and gauge may just read a little low. They are starting to back peddle about what they said they would reimburse me on. They want receipts when before they said they just wanted total. They are now saying they may not be able to cover time I spent, they told me to put time spent on the bill, I never would have thought of it if they hadn't told me to put it on there.
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PostSubject: Re: Low oilpressure, Oil pickup Stalactite   Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:06 pm

what an ordeal! it doesn't surprise me their change in attitude,they were as shocked as you when the culprit was found out and they hastily promised you the world. of course the bean counters had to have their say and the result is what is happening now. great job that they took care of you like they did.
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PostSubject: Re: Low oilpressure, Oil pickup Stalactite   Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:47 pm

Well, they fixed the car (hopefully, so far so good), beyond that they haven't done anything but talk yet. And the talk has mainly been why they would have difficulty doing what they said they would. At least I can drive my car while it is settled. It does seem to be a disagreement between the shop and the bean counters. At this point it would be great if I got 1/2 to 2/3 of what they first said, and no bearings go out in 6k miles of course.
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PostSubject: Re: Low oilpressure, Oil pickup Stalactite   Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:16 pm

Michael,
Did they document the work performed to correct the rags and towels in the engine.
Did they give you an R/O; Repair Order with detailed description of labor performed and a parts list of parts used.
The same as if you were paying for the work to be done.
If not, they should have and are supposed to legally.
Let's back up to the day the car got towed to them with the rags in the valley and everywhere else. They required you to sign a Repair Order that authorizes them to legally work on the car. Without that they cannot work on your vehicle.
That same R/O will then have all the work accomplished and the mechanics hours logged on it as well as all parts needed to finish the job.
They could have done this on what is called an "Internal R/O" as opposed to a Retail R/O, but one or the other would have to be used for their own internal accounting for labor and parts.
You need a copy of one or the other for your documentation and any future litigation that may be necessary due to a premature engine failure or even a premature gasket failure. Otherwise they can say the whole event never took place.
Have you received any documentation other than a handshake.?
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PostSubject: Re: Low oilpressure, Oil pickup Stalactite   Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:03 pm

They never had me sign anything, besides for the loaner car. The car has now been there three times. The first my grandfather had it towed there and no repair order was signed till it was picked up (no problems with that repair). Same thing the second time(when rag was left), nothing signed till I paid and picked up keys. I have copies from the first two times. The third time I signed for loaner car and nothing else, I read all writing on both copies to make sure. When I picked up car and returned loaner there was no paperwork for repair, or loaner being returned. I asked what had been done and was told verbally what labor was done, and they mentioned wheel bearing maybe starting to go out. I thought it was odd when I didn't have to sign for them to work on car. I used to write work orders at the local farm stores shop, and at a Wal*mart tire lube express, both would not let us do anything till the work order was signed, even just put on a wiper blade on.
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PostSubject: Re: Low oilpressure, Oil pickup Stalactite   Sat Mar 27, 2010 4:24 pm

I changed the oil yesterday, at least I started to.
I dropped the pan and found another growth of shop towels.

They are sending someone to look at it Monday, so till then its up on jack stands with pan held on by 3 finger tight bolts.

The dealership and there insurance company have so far only offered $1000 with no warranty of any kind. Had the runaround with insurance people in a couple states.

The lower radiator hose was only pushed 1/2 way onto the pump with no clamp on it. I fixed that, I had to top off the radiator a few times, thought my overflow was dripping.

the hot oil pressure at idle has gradually gone down from about 50 to 38. I wasn't sure if this was normal from the filter filling overtime, so I changed the oil at about 900miles to be on safe side. I guess it wasn't normal. I never saw the oil pressure drop below 35psi.

I had noise a few times at idle at stoplights, went away when gas was applied, and didn't return at next light. May be unrelated, oil pressure didn't read any different when it was happening, and rpm was steady.
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PostSubject: Re: Low oilpressure, Oil pickup Stalactite   Sun Mar 28, 2010 3:34 am

Here is what I would do:

1) find out what the small claims $$ imit is in your jurisdiction. City or town clerk. I'd then go there and get whatever is needed to file a claim (basically this is 'lawsuit lite'). If at all possible do this before they see the car. You will need 1/2 to 1 hour for this.

2) Make phone calls to find out if you can get replacement engine installed (by someone else) for under that limit. Limit is probably something like $3,000, you can most likely get a warranted remanufactured engine instlalled for that $$. Might have to use a shop in a nearby larger city. If at all possible do this too before they see car.

3) after they see the car they most likely will reiterate the $1,000 offer. I would counter that they wasted my time and ruined my car's engine. I'd then say, "so I am taking you to small claims court because to get my engine replaced it will cost $$$ and, well, sort of in the same way that you want to give me a grand to go away, I don't really want to deal with you -- except that the problem I am having is your doing and it looks to me I have to deal with you in partnership with the law to make you hold up your end. I am willing to work with you on this but only if you replace the engine and only if someone else does the work, because as far as I can see having you all do the work has not been effective. Obviously if we have a different repair shop replace the engine, that repair shop's terms apply to making sure it's right."

4) Then BE QUIET. First person to speak after I put the counterproposal on the table loses, so to speak. In one negotiation like this I had to be silent for 1/2 hour. Doodle, stare at your shoes, whatever it takes but be quiet. Whatever they offer, if it is short of what I'm asking for I would reiterate what I want as briefly as possible. If they stay short of what I want, then I end the meeting and excuse myself to go to finish writing up the claim papers. Do not be rude, no swearing, no terminal stares, no bad jokes. Most likely they will sette for my terms but if not...

5) finish preparing the small claims case - in addition to the forms I would prepare a PowerPoint deck, using the chronology of events as reported on this forum, and attach it to the forms when filed.

We will see what the new week brings. As for your saga... I think there's more to it, and the whole thing is, well, fishy.
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PostSubject: Re: Low oilpressure, Oil pickup Stalactite   Sun Mar 28, 2010 3:57 am

They are not coming in person, there sending a local mechanic(from different shop) to look at it. The garage has had us (my mom has done most of the talking on the phone) dealing with there insurance company, that hired a different insurance company with a local branch in the next town, that is sending the mechanic.
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PostSubject: Re: Low oilpressure, Oil pickup Stalactite   Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:03 am

Its a car part now wrote:
They are not coming in person, there sending a local mechanic(from different shop) to look at it. The garage has had us (my mom has done most of the talking on the phone) dealing with there insurance company, that hired a different insurance company with a local branch in the next town, that is sending the mechanic.

If they cut you an insurance check do not cash it unless you are truly satisfied with the amount. Cashing the check is often legal closure to the situation and makes a proper claim much harder to pursue. Get a few engine replacement quotes from another shop so you have a dollar figure to pursue.
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PostSubject: Re: Low oilpressure, Oil pickup Stalactite   Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:19 pm

O M G. I just read this entire post from page 1.....This is ridiculous. If I ever made a mistake like that fixing a customers vehicle, my conscience would eat away at me until I was sitting in a corner with my knees tucked to my chest, rocking back-and-forth......I would have to find a new profession.

As for the dealership's actions, I 200% agree with Albertj, make the "offer", and if they don't comply you go to court. You have MORE than enough evidence against them to prosecute. You may be "screwed" on the 3rd repair, as I would not have left the premises without a paper trail. However, given all the other outstanding evidence I think a judge would believe you.

As for the mechanic.....his State Mechanics ID# should be on the R/O (mine was at the dealer). If not, at least his name.....I would get all the info I could and call Secretary of State and file a complaint against him and the facility....get the "higher powers" involved. Not sure what state your in, but here in Michigan ANY PERSON getting paid to work on a vehicle is required to be certified by at least the state. If he is not, the facility is in dire trouble.

I'm sorry to hear that this happened to you, I truly am. I'm pissed off at your situation....I can't even imagine how I would be if it were my car. The building would've probably already burnt down due to a faulty Acetylene tank.....
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PostSubject: Re: Low oilpressure, Oil pickup Stalactite   Sun Mar 28, 2010 4:07 pm

I Have a copy of the repair order for the 3rd repair. They mailed it after it was requested. It has a spot on the form the mechanics is suppose to be listed, but it is blank. Illinois doesn't require the certification, I've done oil changes/tires at 2 chains with only the stores certification(but name or employee number was always on the bill).

There repair order says the car was taken in for low oil pressure, then says they found the rags, like they diagnosed it. When it was towed in I had already found the rags and brought them a sample and photos of the lifter valley. The alternator was in the front floor board, and the engine was only finger tight to keep dirt out on the tow over. It would have had oil pressure if it was tightened up and had oil in it, until the rpms went up and flushed more rags into the pickup.

At least the way it is now, I could drive it to a shop. After cleaning the pickup again. I was getting tired of tows.
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PostSubject: Re: Low oilpressure, Oil pickup Stalactite   Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:32 pm

Its a car part now wrote:
I Have a copy of the repair order for the 3rd repair. They mailed it after it was requested. It has a spot on the form the mechanics is suppose to be listed, but it is blank. Illinois doesn't require the certification, I've done oil changes/tires at 2 chains with only the stores certification(but name or employee number was always on the bill).

There repair order says the car was taken in for low oil pressure, then says they found the rags, like they diagnosed it. When it was towed in I had already found the rags and brought them a sample and photos of the lifter valley. The alternator was in the front floor board, and the engine was only finger tight to keep dirt out on the tow over. It would have had oil pressure if it was tightened up and had oil in it, until the rpms went up and flushed more rags into the pickup.

At least the way it is now, I could drive it to a shop. After cleaning the pickup again. I was getting tired of tows.

That repair order actually helps you; I won't go into details. Include it with the document you write up that states your small claims case. You will have to attach all that stuff as an explanatory note to the judge. If this was a bigger case it's be called a brief. And if I were you I would go ahead and write that brief today.

I still think there is something fishy and undisclosed here.

Albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Low oilpressure, Oil pickup Stalactite   Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:09 am

Good, glad to hear you got a copy of that....time to get a new engine!
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PostSubject: Re: Low oilpressure, Oil pickup Stalactite   Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:17 pm

No one showed up, apparently the guy we talked to at the insurance company tried to have someone come out, but couldn't get approval. To have them send a mechanic to look at it I would have to pay the mechanic out of pocket, then ask for reimbursement.

they keep saying $1000 no warranty and have the shop that left the rag in it clean it a again, they won't agree to have another shop look at it, and they won't put anything in writing. Tried to get a quote for rebuilt engine or having someone see if there is any damage. As soon as they hear about it they refuse to get near the car, and I tried calling shops on other side of the county.

Its starting to look like I may have to get a engine online shipped to house and put it in myself.

Small claims limit here is 10,000, but all the paperwork for the repairs are in my Grandfathers name (the shop I had it first towed to refused to work on it, and didn't call to let anyone know till it had sat for almost a week, my grandfather had it taken to dealer while I was at work. The dealer did fine that time, but kept putting future visits under my grandfathers name.) Since its his name on the paperwork, I'm not sure if that would be problem with me making small claims case.
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PostSubject: Re: Low oilpressure, Oil pickup Stalactite   Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:28 pm

Apparently both your insurance company AND the dealer suck! Dude, get the "higher powers" involved and bend 'em all over dry.....

I don't think it matters whether you or your grandfather's name are on the R/O's as it is your car. I had a bunch of my friends/family's cars written up in my name when I was at the dealer and it made no difference....
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PostSubject: Re: Low oilpressure, Oil pickup Stalactite   Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:19 am

I hope it doesn't make a difference who's name the bill is under.

The insurance company is not mine, it is the dealer's insurance. The company my care is insured through is great, but full coverage car insurance doesn't cover my problem, except for the tow. If it did cover the dealer's screw ups, this would have been long over.

I will have to change the pickup so I can get to work tomorrow, I'll just have to ziplock the one in the picture, and finish changing the oil.
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PostSubject: Re: Low oilpressure, Oil pickup Stalactite   Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:47 am

Have you tried discussing this with your insurance agent. Explain the important facts about what has gone wrong and see if they can suggest a mechanic that can to do the arbitrary inspection of the engine and documents up to this point for an impartial recommendation.
They may pay for this service so you don't have to pay out of pocket as the dealers insurance company is suggesting.
And even if you have to pay out of pocket for this inspection you want a mechanic recommended by your insurance company to do the inspection, not one recommended by the dealer or the dealers insurance company.
The arbitrary inspection should be as close to you as possible and not the dealer or their insurance company.
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PostSubject: Re: Low oilpressure, Oil pickup Stalactite   Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:47 pm

My insurance company has been talked to. They will pay for the tow to another shop, rest would be out of pocket, but I could see if they can recommend a shop. I had not thought of asking that.
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PostSubject: Re: Low oilpressure, Oil pickup Stalactite   Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:06 am

Excuse me if I missed it but did the oil pressure / noises return to normal after cleaning the latest blob out?
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PostSubject: Re: Low oilpressure, Oil pickup Stalactite   Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:16 am

you didn't miss it, I took the pickup off and put on a clean one after right after I left my last post.

The oil pressure and went back to normal, the sound was normal even with the 1/2 blocked pickup, I had a few weird noises in last 2 months, but they were brief and infrequent. The O2 sensor went out during that time also, so it may have been the cause of the noises. If they show up again I'll no it wasn't the o2. The pickup wasn't blocked completely, about 1/4 of the screen was uncovered, the pressure never fell below mid 30's. Now it goes from 50-60 on highway cruise, about 48 hot idle.

The insurance company had no suggestions for someone to look at it.
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PostSubject: Re: Low oilpressure, Oil pickup Stalactite   Thu Apr 01, 2010 8:32 am

ummm, the O2 doesn't and can't make noise. All it is is an electric sensor.
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PostSubject: Re: Low oilpressure, Oil pickup Stalactite   Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:35 pm

I meant the noise was a result of the sensor being bad, not coming from the sensor. I wasn't very clear above, it does sound like I thought the sensor made noise the way I had it.

The fuel trims were all over the place, so I thought the noise may have been misfiring from bad trims at some of the cells. I saw the trims go double digit positive to double digit negative with little change in load or rpm. Knock retard would also be present, most I saw was 2, I normally have none.
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