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 I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long---

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98inSFl
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98inSFl

Name : Ed
Location : WPB Florida
Joined : 2010-01-16
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I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- Empty
PostSubject: I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long---   I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- EmptySat Jan 16, 2010 8:23 pm

Hello, I have been a riv owner for 5 years but only recently put it back together and am driving..

Put it back together? a low mile 98?!? Why was it apart you may ask.

I was alerted by a friend about a abandoned car in a field, he wanted my help loading the car on his trailer and getting it going so he could go jump it thru muck lakes found at 4x4 meets here in south Fl...
Upon arriving at the abandoned car it was a bitter sweet sight, before us a formally mint, low mile burgundy/burgundy (maroon?)beauty that had just been uncovered by heavy equipment clearing the field , yes uncovered, it had been left for whatever reason in a heavily wooded area to weather hurricane Wilma 1 year before, well it was lost for a year, no one except the owner knew it was there.We loaded the car up to get it out of there as it was now exposed to kids who busted out all the lights.

We got the car back to my shop where I got a battery in it and look it over, it was sad, the interior was slightly weathered but mint, the 2 rear side windows were the only glass , sunroof bent,cracked, the center roof panel destroyed, fenders, hood, doors, trunk all heavily damaged from trees falling all over it, even the dash pad and package tray had a dent from branches, oddly the 1/4 panels had only minor dings.
I fired it up, found it mechanically and electrically in 95% perfect condition, dash indicated 45,500 miles and a full tank of gas. At this point I took the car from my friend and promised him something else to jump over mud puddles.

A check on the owner and paperwork indicated there were no liens, the insurance had run out about 6 months prior with no claim, the car was not reported to the police as missing or stolen
The title was sent for by a title service where I found out the owner had passed and no one was going to contest my new ownership status.

I took a good look at the car and thought to myself everything damaged was just bolted on so rather then part it out or do amazing burnouts until it blew up it became a project.
Found a 95 at the local pick a part and bought everything, lights,fenders, hood, doors, trunk, steering column, rear bumper,package tray, all the glass except for the one savable 1/4 window and a entire non sunroof, roof I sawed off complete with headliner.

I took many digital pics of the mess as I unpeeled everything, stored the interior, peeled off the center roof panel, fixed the windshield pillar, started getting all the fenders cut in and hung, then lost everything including the pics in a house fire, lost everything that was at home, the car and all the parts were at my shop.
I got a little distracted at this point and shelved the project, stored it indoors for several years but got tired of tripping over it and watching the car start to deteriorate (horn got stuck, fuel pump gummed up, freon leaking out the compressor seals, bumped it with another car etc.)

I elevated this project back to the front burner and got things painted , just then my daily driver got randomly stolen and joy rode for a few weeks, I quickly finished up the glass install and put the interior back in, the day I was close enough to driving the car (Thanksgiving) my daily driver was recovered by the police undamaged.
Instead of hopping back in Ol Betsy I immediately sold her and started driving my "new" riv.

New fuel pump, compressor,belts, filters,gutted air box,and no horn.
That was 2700 miles ago.
There are a couple things popping up, namely the supercharger oil that went to sticky sluge, I will be reading the supercharger thread and posting there shortly.

As soon as I figure out how to post the current finished pics I will.

Ed
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robotennis61
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robotennis61

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I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- Empty
PostSubject: Re: I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long---   I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- EmptySat Jan 16, 2010 8:31 pm

a hard life is not for the faint of heart! and you my friend have a big heart. good luck with everything!
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Eldo
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Eldo

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I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- Empty
PostSubject: Re: I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long---   I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- EmptySat Jan 16, 2010 9:51 pm

Welcome to the fold, Ed.

From what you just said, the best thing you can do is go to the parts store & buy yourself a 2 to 4 ounce suction syringe (if you don't have one) and start changing out that nasty rotten-cheddar oil in the blower snout. If it's gotten gummy, you'll need to flush it out a couple times, so I'd bite the bullet and buy 5 bottles of Supercharger Oil from the dealer or online. (Some performance sites/places sell it in bottles larger than the dealer's 4 oz size.)

Based on the regular bottle, and some rough mileage figures, I'd use 1 & a 1/2 bottles for the first 500 miles, and then suck that out and put another 6 ounces in for a thousand miles... If it comes out fairly clean & non-stinky by then, you can suck all of that out, and fill it up to the bottom of the fill-hole threads and leave it for another 10,000 miles. The syringe I bought has a vinyl hose for the tip that just about reaches the bottom of the reservoir, and if you get all the old stuff out, you'll use almost 2 bottles for the full fill.


Good luck!
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ibmoses
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ibmoses

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I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- Empty
PostSubject: Re: I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long---   I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- EmptySat Jan 16, 2010 9:59 pm

Wow!.

Thats car should treat you well.

Welcome!

Bert tavis
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Mr.Riviera
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Mr.Riviera

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I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- Empty
PostSubject: Re: I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long---   I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- EmptySat Jan 16, 2010 10:27 pm

Welcome (again) hi
as for the blower, i would just pull the snout, clean it with brake cleaner and then fill with new oil. no need to flush it several times with the $$ s/c oil. if you are really adamant about flushing it with oil, use mobil 5w20 full syn as the temp oil to save you the $$. it will work quite fine in the blower but it does break down faster than gm s/c oil.
cant wait to see pics! btw, i'm surprised it fired up with year old gas.

_________________
1996 with 254k miles, L32 4" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs. -RIP
AMG C400 White on black -daily
I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- Dsc_0110
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98inSFl
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98inSFl

Name : Ed
Location : WPB Florida
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Post Count : 249
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I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- Empty
PostSubject: Re: I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long---   I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- EmptySat Jan 16, 2010 10:49 pm

Thanks everyone for the welcome and the luck, I am going to need it!

This car is 100% original/stock in a mechanical and electrical way, as in original brake pads and 2 surviving tires, I fear the slow failure of things such as the slightly leaky rear shocks and now I already forgot to mention the supercharger snout is slinging some as of a few days ago.
I did buy 2 bottles of oil the first day on the road, possibly overfilled the thing but I was in a rush and was eager to just know it was full,it seemed liquid but low.

Already some questions,how would the addition of the proper supercharger oil cause sludge within 3000 miles and if I overfilled why would it wait a month to start pumping out the tip of the snout.

I am not ready to pull the snout, but I may have no choice as there is some noise aside from the tiny rattle, flush and cross fingers for the time being is my plan.

I saw somewhere that 5-30 synthetic oil was a possible alternative, that was my next question.

Thanks again
Ed
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Eldo
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Eldo

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Age : 54
Location : West Salem, Oregon... FINALLY
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I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- Empty
PostSubject: Re: I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long---   I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- EmptySat Jan 16, 2010 11:00 pm

I've never pulled the snout myself, and was trying to minimize the hassle. And of course, if he were to take the snout off, then it would be crazy not to change out the old coupler...

BTW, what is the stuff he'd need to reseal the snout if he did that?
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robotennis61
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robotennis61

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I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- Empty
PostSubject: Re: I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long---   I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- EmptySat Jan 16, 2010 11:03 pm

for the 95,50-50, full syn 5w30 & lucas oil stabilizer works.
it was recomended to me by a s/c rebuilder in california. use and fear not. my recomend to u is to replace the s/c gaskets. plus remove the snout and clean the mating surfaces real good and reinstal. i forget the name but permatex makes a ultra thin sealant for metal on metal that works great. these motors are stout as u have learned,so..i might take a few days and replace all the top end gaskets if u have the time.....zzperformance sells s/c bearings and couplers for not a whole lot....if you do replace stock s/c oil with the syn mix,make sure u remove all the old oil first!
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Eldo
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Eldo

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I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- Empty
PostSubject: Re: I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long---   I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- EmptySat Jan 16, 2010 11:10 pm

98inSFl wrote:
I already forgot to mention the supercharger snout is slinging some as of a few days ago. I did buy 2 bottles of oil the first day on the road, possibly overfilled the thing but I was in a rush and was eager to just know it was full,it seemed liquid but low.

Already some questions,how would the addition of the proper supercharger oil cause sludge within 3000 miles and if I overfilled why would it wait a month to start pumping out the tip of the snout.

I am not ready to pull the snout, but I may have no choice as there is some noise aside from the tiny rattle, flush and cross fingers for the time being is my plan.

I saw somewhere that 5-30 synthetic oil was a possible alternative, that was my next question.

Thanks again
Ed

The new oil would not cause sludge, sitting ignored in a field would. sad

You could have over-filled it & caused shaft leakage, or the seals could be damaged from the long dry spell. That's one of the reasons I wasn't recommending a cheap substitute on oil - so the seals & coupler get the stuff they need. Pop the plug back out to check for level & any pressure.

If the coupler is getting noisy and the shaft is leaking, you may have to just put a new snout on it. But again, I'd like to see if those parts would recondition at all from a few thousand miles of fresh, GM oil...

The 5-30 synthetic is only approved for the M62 blower on the Series I engines before 1996, not the M90 that you and most of the rest of us have. Robotennis has a '95... whip
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robotennis61
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robotennis61

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I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- Empty
PostSubject: Re: I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long---   I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- EmptySat Jan 16, 2010 11:14 pm

oh..well...be the first to try it out on the 98? ya had the balls to pull baby from the depths so...
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Mr.Riviera
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Mr.Riviera

Name : Matthew
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I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- Empty
PostSubject: Re: I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long---   I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- EmptySat Jan 16, 2010 11:17 pm

you do not need to remove the entire supercharger on the 96+ rivs like you do on the 95's. no need to replace the s/c gasket unless it is failing.
as for the snout mating sealer; you dont have to use anything b/c it comes metal to metal from the factory. i however, use black RTV or gm/permatex anaerobic gasket maker.

sludge in the snout may be caused by the stock coupler breaking down over time. the leaking oil from the end can be fixed with a new snout seal but you need a s/c pulley puller to do it.

edit: i ran syn 5w20 in my M90 for a good 6months in the FL summer due to my snout leaking (didnt want to keep buying the expensive oil every few weeks) when i was finally able to pull the blower apart and repair the seal, the internals still looked perfect. coupler had no wear (green aftermarket kind) and the bearings had no play nor did i see and sludge build up. would i run the 5w20 the life of the car? probably not, but i dont see where it could cause any damage on short term use.

_________________
1996 with 254k miles, L32 4" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs. -RIP
AMG C400 White on black -daily
I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- Dsc_0110
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Eldo
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Eldo

Name : Mark
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I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- Empty
PostSubject: Re: I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long---   I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- EmptySat Jan 16, 2010 11:27 pm

Mr.Riviera wrote:


edit: i ran syn 5w20 in my M90 for a good 6months in the FL summer due to my snout leaking (didnt want to keep buying the expensive oil every few weeks) when i was finally able to pull the blower apart and repair the seal, the internals still looked perfect. coupler had no wear (green aftermarket kind) and the bearings had no play nor did i see and sludge build up. would i run the 5w20 the life of the car? probably not, but i dont see where it could cause any damage on short term use.

I understand where you're coming from, but what I (and I think Ed) are hoping is that the soft parts have been drying out for 5 or 6 years, and giving them the stuff with the right ingredients might bring them back to life, whereas you already had the green coupler, and also knew that you would have to change the seal anyway.

It's just a $50 Hail Mary...
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98inSFl
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98inSFl

Name : Ed
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I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- Empty
PostSubject: Re: I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long---   I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- EmptySat Jan 16, 2010 11:38 pm

I am currently undecided, it was sooo gooey when I noticed I was worried about actually being able to suck it out unless it was at full temp, I refuse to admit before trying but fear the snout is shot.
How long have people ignored the problem before trashing rotors? how do I know when is enough?
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Eldo
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Eldo

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I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- Empty
PostSubject: Re: I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long---   I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- EmptySat Jan 16, 2010 11:57 pm

The rotors are totally divorced from the snout. You're talking about the shaft bearings, seals, coupler and in a really worst case scenario, the rotor drive gears.

I've really never heard of anyone else with such gooey oil - the 5W-30 might help loosen it up & get it 'suckable'. Why not try removing a few ounces of what's in there, and topping it off with syn 5W-30 for the next few hundred miles? Then suck it all out when everything is still hot and see how you do...
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IBx1
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I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- Empty
PostSubject: Re: I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long---   I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- EmptySun Jan 17, 2010 2:12 am

Welcome to the board, sounds like you've had an unfortunate journey.

Tell me, how does the car sound at idle, around the snout? If it's rattley and leaking, your seal inside your S/C snout could be bad. Mine was, and it drew oil away from the bearing and those had to be replaced. Luckily the M90's snout can be pulled instead of having to rip the entire S/C off like my M62. Just be ready to change more than a coupler.
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BMD
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BMD

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I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- Empty
PostSubject: Re: I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long---   I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- EmptySun Jan 17, 2010 8:56 am

Wow, what a story Ed, the Riv would kiss you if it could. You are the kind of owner it needs. Someone who sees its potential and uniqueness, Good luck and would love to see some pics soon. Welcome!
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98inSFl
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98inSFl

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I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- Empty
PostSubject: Re: I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long---   I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- EmptySun Jan 17, 2010 10:05 am

[quote="Eldo"]The rotors are totally divorced from the snout. You're talking about the shaft bearings, seals, coupler and in a really worst case scenario, the rotor drive gears.

I read somewhere (possibly here on RP) the snout gets real bad at some point the rotors start touching and wearing each other.

What other years/models is the snout going to be a direct fit from?Regal?Gran Prix? Impala? Park ave?
I am sure it aint going to fit but sitting here is a Thunderbird 3.8 M90

How hard is a rebuild, I have a press and such but never had one apart, I see "kits" on ebay for just under 70 bux and rebuilt snouts for double that.
Where and what do u guys pay for SC parts especially a coupler.

Eventually when/if I take it apart ....Upon reassembling is there timing marks or something?
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IBx1
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I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- Empty
PostSubject: Re: I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long---   I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- EmptySun Jan 17, 2010 10:27 am

The supercharger itself is simple enough that it shouldn't be too hard to rebuild the snout. It's getting the snout off that's the hard part, especially if you can't drain your oil. It's going to smell, bad.

If the Thunderbird uses an Eaton M90 supercharger, then I'm pretty sure it'll work, but double check. I found a snout rebuild kit that came with 2 bottles S/C oil, 2 ball bearings, red gasket stuff, and a new seal for $80.


Here is the website, you want to get the -V kit for a stronger seal:
http://www.rollingperformance.com/snoutkits.htm

And here are their instructions:
http://www.rollingperformance.com/snoutrebuild.htm
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L67
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I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- Empty
PostSubject: Re: I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long---   I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- EmptySun Jan 17, 2010 11:09 am

IBx1 wrote:
The supercharger itself is simple enough that it shouldn't be too hard to rebuild the snout. It's getting the snout off that's the hard part, especially if you can't drain your oil. It's going to smell, bad.

If the Thunderbird uses an Eaton M90 supercharger, then I'm pretty sure it'll work, but double check. I found a snout rebuild kit that came with 2 bottles S/C oil, 2 ball bearings, red gasket stuff, and a new seal for $80.


Here is the website, you want to get the -V kit for a stronger seal:
http://www.rollingperformance.com/snoutkits.htm

And here are their instructions:
http://www.rollingperformance.com/snoutrebuild.htm

Thunderbird M90 is completely different and snouts will not interchange.
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Jason
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I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- Empty
PostSubject: Re: I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long---   I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- EmptySun Jan 17, 2010 12:17 pm

great story.
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Eldo
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I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- Empty
PostSubject: Re: I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long---   I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- EmptySun Jan 17, 2010 3:08 pm

IBx1 wrote:
The supercharger itself is simple enough that it shouldn't be too hard to rebuild the snout. It's getting the snout off that's the hard part, especially if you can't drain your oil. It's going to smell, bad.

Here is a website, you want to get the -V kit for a stronger seal:
http://www.rollingperformance.com/snoutkits.htm

And here are their instructions:
http://www.rollingperformance.com/snoutrebuild.htm

Good link, Ilan. $75 for everything is a great deal...
I imagine any decent local machine shop could handle the pulling & pressing of the coupler and inner bearing.

Come to think of it, they could handle removing the pulley too, saving him that PITA.
I used the ZZP puller and went back & forth for 2 weeks until they understood that the small studs they were making for the hole in the end of the snout shaft were too long. If the snout was off the car, I coulda' had it popped right off with a vertical press...


Last edited by Eldo on Sun Jan 17, 2010 3:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Rickw
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I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- Empty
PostSubject: Re: I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long---   I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- EmptySun Jan 17, 2010 3:24 pm

98inSFl wrote:

How hard is a rebuild, I have a press and such but never had one apart, I see "kits" on ebay for just under 70 bux and rebuilt snouts for double that.
Where and what do u guys pay for SC parts especially a coupler.
Eventually when/if I take it apart ....Upon reassembling is there timing marks or something?
I think it has already been mentioned that rebuilding the snout is very easy to do with a press. The only special tool you need is the Pulley Puller. They are available for loan from places like Intense or ZZPerformance, which also has the parts to re-build. Although you may find a better price elsewhere, just be sure you are getting quality parts and not some Chinese knock offs. Otherwise it will be a waste of time.
There is a write up here in another section for the instructions on rebuilding the M90 snout.
And you can ask all the questions you need to. There is usually someone on that has a clue.
You can find the listings for all the vendors websites on here also.
Welcome and good luck
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deekster_caddy
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I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- Empty
PostSubject: Re: I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long---   I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- EmptySun Jan 17, 2010 8:49 pm

Welcome to the club! Nice rescue story, too!

As others have said, the snout should be interchangable with others from similar year 3800 GMs. The '96 and up Rivs use the same snout as 97-02 Regal GS and GP GTPs, Park Ave Ultras, Bonnevilles, etc. I can't remember if it was '03 or '04 when GM switched to the 'gen V' M90s which have a different snout.
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L67
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I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- Empty
PostSubject: Re: I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long---   I was not looking for a low mile 98,it found me, Long--- EmptyMon Jan 18, 2010 12:25 am

deekster_caddy wrote:
Welcome to the club! Nice rescue story, too!

As others have said, the snout should be interchangable with others from similar year 3800 GMs. The '96 and up Rivs use the same snout as 97-02 Regal GS and GP GTPs, Park Ave Ultras, Bonnevilles, etc. I can't remember if it was '03 or '04 when GM switched to the 'gen V' M90s which have a different snout.

The Gen V debuted in 2004 only on the GTPs, the rest of the 3800 SC cars of that year still used the Gen III.
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