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 Write-Up: Window Motor Replacement

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Jack the R
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PostSubject: Write-Up: Window Motor Replacement   Sat Jun 20, 2009 1:58 pm

Click for write-up: http://rivperformance.editboard.com/interior-f20/write-up-window-motor-replacement-t7151-60.htm

Back on regalgs.org someone once mentioned cleaning the window motor. While I've got the door apart, I'll go ahead and do it - if anyone knows where it is and how to remove it.

This thing looks likely -



I'm not sure what it is, it doesn't look like a motor, but maybe the motor is underneath it?
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Eldo
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Window Motor Replacement   Sat Jun 20, 2009 5:54 pm

You're in the ballpark, that's the counterbalance spring.
The motor itself looks like a small wiper motor, and is mounted vertically to the regulator either to the left or right of that spring, inside the door. The person you mentioned probably meant clean and lube the regulator rack & pinion gears, not the motor itself...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/24229483@N07/3644409965/
.
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Jack the R
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Window Motor Replacement   Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:40 pm

Soooo is there any service procedure for this part or is it supposed to last forever?

It looks like you have to take off the sound insulation that's glued to the door in order to get at the window motor. Not sure how it would go back on unless there's a glue for putting it back on.
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Eldo
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Window Motor Replacement   Sat Jun 20, 2009 11:47 pm

Jack the R wrote:
Soooo is there any service procedure for this part or is it supposed to last forever?

It looks like you have to take off the sound insulation that's glued to the door in order to get at the window motor. Not sure how it would go back on unless there's a glue for putting it back on.

No, there's no maintenance procedure, only replacement.
Personally, I don't think it's that important to do this, and you probably can't find the same very thick & waterproof grease. If you do it, you do need to get to the holes in the door skin to reach the motor and gear. Traditionally, the adhesive will let you peel the waterproofer back, and then re-stick it, but you can use any kind of rubbery cement for that part...
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Window Motor Replacement   Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:25 am

Are you talking about the vinyl barrier? There is a 3M trim caulk used for that. It is black and comes in strips you pull apart into little ropes. One trip to the NAPA or auto paint shop, and a few bucks will get you a lifetime supply. It does not spoil/fail unless you get it dirty in place and then it won't stick to anything. Their part number 8578. Here it is on the web:

http://autobodystore.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=3M8578&Category_Code=JASS

but if you shop around you should find it locally for about the same price.

As for the "thick and waterproof grease" it's just the lithium grease used for hinges and garage doors and the like. I have some but it is in spray can. You could use some of that silicone grease (like in my weatherstripping post) but that would be overkill. Lubriplate lithium open gear grease is what you're looking for.

http://www.heavydutystore.com/lubriplate-lithium-based-open-gear-grease-pr-23273.html

it tends to spit from the little straw you stick in the nozzle, but just wipe off the overspray/excess with a little Windex or some such, if you have to, and you're good to go.

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Eldo
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Window Motor Replacement   Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:54 am

albertj wrote:
Are you talking about the vinyl barrier? There is a 3M trim caulk used for that.
Albertj

Yes, I couldn't put my finger on it, but that is the stuff that lets you peel it open and re-stick it... As for the grease, I remember it being much thicker & stickier than typical Lubriplate, but I haven't had a motor out since replacing one in my Eldorado back in 2005, just before I bought the Riv...
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Window Motor Replacement   Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:49 pm

And now we know wink Thanks!

I'll see how the window sounds once I get the switch back together. Before it didn't seem as strong as the passenger window - but perhaps it wasn't getting as much current through the gunked up switch?
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Window Motor Replacement   Sun Jun 21, 2009 3:40 pm

Jack the R wrote:
And now we know wink Thanks!

I'll see how the window sounds once I get the switch back together. Before it didn't seem as strong as the passenger window - but perhaps it wasn't getting as much current through the gunked up switch?

Very likely. From what I've heard around here about the lame way these switches were built, electrical resistance is more probable than dirt getting into the rack & pinion...
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Window Motor Replacement   Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:36 pm

Having seen the inside of one, I can believe they have a resistance problem.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Window Motor Replacement   Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:34 pm

Alrightey, new switch is in and - nada! All the drama and expense I went through with the switch was for nothing!

So the problem is either with the $100 motor or the $300 regulator.

Does anyone have a smarter answer than "keep throwing money at it till it works again?"
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Window Motor Replacement   Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:17 pm

I think the switch throws a relay, not power directly to the window. A sure way to test is to hotwire the window motor though... Two connectors, one + one - and it will go up or down. Reverse wires for oppsite direction...
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Window Motor Replacement   Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:32 pm

deekster_caddy wrote:
I think the switch throws a relay, not power directly to the window. A sure way to test is to hotwire the window motor though... Two connectors, one + one - and it will go up or down. Reverse wires for oppsite direction...

It is extremely unlikely that the regulator has frozen in place.

The direct motor test is always a good idea, but there are no relays - that's why the switches burn up. However, there is also the Express-Down Module...
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Window Motor Replacement   Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:02 pm



Here's the plug on the motor. Is this pure corrosion or did GM use something like bulb grease on the contacts?

How can I get this wired up to test the motor? I've got a lawn motor battery I can test it with, if that's the right volts/amps/whatever. I don't know about getting wires onto the motor plug though. It's kinda tight in there.
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Eldo
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Window Motor Replacement   Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:14 pm

I can't tell from the photo... Are there holes in the tabs that you can run small wires thru? Also, are the tabs anywhere near the size of regular crimp connectors (about 1/4")?

The lawnmower battery should be fine. It's 12-volt (6 caps) right? And yes, since it is in the wet part of the door, GM probably did pack it with grease.


Last edited by Eldo on Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Window Motor Replacement   Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:15 pm

Jack the R wrote:


Here's the plug on the motor. Is this pure corrosion or did GM use something like bulb grease on the contacts?
Yes, They use Dielectric Silicone Grease on all electrical connectors. You can buy a tube of it at any parts store.

How can I get this wired up to test the motor? I've got a lawn motor battery I can test it with, if that's the right volts/amps/whatever. I don't know about getting wires onto the motor plug though. It's kinda tight in there.
yes you can use the lawn mower battery and just make up some wires with alligator clips or something small enough to make contact.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Window Motor Replacement   Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:53 pm

Pretty sure lawnmower batteries, motorcycle batteries, and car batteries are all 12 volt.

It looks like there's holes in the prongs - maybe the best way is to try to run the wires through them per Eldo's suggestion. I thought about using the female quick connects but the one's I've got are too fat. Need to find smaller ones anyway.

I've got dielectric grease. Should I bother cleaning this old stuff off?

Should I be using it on all the door connectors?
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Window Motor Replacement   Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:31 am

I need to revise my previous statement that GM uses it on all connectors. That's not true, it is used on connectors that will be exposed to moisture to help keep the water out and prevent corrosion.
JR, I would try and clean off the old stuff maybe use a Q-Tip or something that can get in the connector and apply new dielectric to the connection after you finish testing the circuit. Soak the Q-tip in electrical contact cleaner or acetone.
It can't hurt to apply dielectric to all the connectors that are exposed to moisture inside the door panel.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Window Motor Replacement   Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:13 pm

Jack the R wrote:

I've got dielectric grease. Should I bother cleaning this old stuff off?

Should I be using it on all the door connectors?

I believe the various other connectors are either on the dry side of the door, or else rubber-sealed WeatherPack/MetriPak connectors. Either way, I'd say if it works, don't mess with it...

As far as the motor, do clean out the old grease, and re-pack it.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Window Motor Replacement   Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:35 pm

Turns out there are no holes in the male prongs, they were just photographic illusions. On to plan B, try to find smaller female quick connects.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Window Motor Replacement   Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:58 pm

Or as Rick suggested, run into Radio Shack and pick up a couple of jumper wires with alligator clips...
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Window Motor Replacement   Fri Jul 03, 2009 1:53 am

They'd have to be tiny - those prongs only have about an 1/8" space between them. I'm a little worried about clips touching each other. Besides, I need to get smaller female quick connects for my speakers anyway.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Window Motor Replacement   Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:19 am

Jack the R wrote:
They'd have to be tiny - those prongs only have about an 1/8" space between them. I'm a little worried about clips touching each other. Besides, I need to get smaller female quick connects for my speakers anyway.

Jack is right on, those tiny little prongs/connectors are a pain in the arse. Its hard to even get the tip of a probe in there without shorting something.

The pass side window on the wifes 99 Riv wont raise/lower from either door so I am going to have to figure that out soon.

Keep plugging at it Jack, you will get it fixed.

Bert tavis
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Window Motor Replacement   Fri Jul 03, 2009 1:56 pm

I've got it figured out, and it was obvious bonk I only need to use one big fat 3M quick connect. I can hold the bare end of a wire onto the other prong. Since the 3M connects are fully encased in plastic, there's no danger of the bare wire shorting against them. I've just got to keep from brushing against the door metal while I'm reaching in there with the bare wire. I've got heavy rubber gloves just to be safe.

One more question, and this is probably stupid - what order should I apply the positive and negative wires to the motor prongs? I'm assuming I wire up the battery first, stick the quick connect wire onto a motor prong, and then brush the other prong with the remaining wire. So should the quick connect be on the positive wire or the negative wire?

I don't understand electricity too well, or maybe I don't understand the difference between AC and DC. Does this make sense? AC needs a circuit to work, and the negative wire is the return wire. DC doesn't need a circuit, and the negative wire is a ground wire. I'm all confused confused Please edumacate me.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Window Motor Replacement   Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:06 pm

Jack the R wrote:

One more question, and this is probably stupid - what order should I apply the positive and negative wires to the motor prongs? I'm assuming I wire up the battery first, stick the quick connect wire onto a motor prong, and then brush the other prong with the remaining wire. So should the quick connect be on the positive wire or the negative wire?

Just try one way briefly and see if the motor turns, then try the other way.
You should be able to get the motor to turn clockwise and counterclockwise (window up and down)
Also, no need for big heavy rubber gloves. Not enough voltage to hurt you.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Window Motor Replacement   Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:33 pm

If you have $10 or so you might find it helpful to go to Radio Shack and get a couple things.

One is an in-line fuse (you can also get at autozone) and the other is to get some "test cables" - these would be wires with alligator and/or battery clips on the ends, also test probes (look like little nails or pins fitted into the ends of handles)

And yes as Rick pointed out no kidding there is not enough voltage here to hurt you at all. There is enough to startle you. Except - well - in the days of coil/distributor ignitions, one hazard was that the energized coil would pack quite a wallop. One time I had a Datsun 710. The ignition key stuck in the ignition such that I could not turn the car off. So I parked it and opened the hood. I figured if I pulled the coil wire I could turn off the engine. Well, I pulled the wire - but I pulled the *distributor* side not the coil side.

What was I thinking? Never do that.

I got a shock such that I could not let go of the wire so it jolted me I think 3 times before the car finally quit. It was weird. with each jolt my fist tightened around the coil wire and I could feel it in my knees, which were resting on the (metal) bumper. And I could not let the &^$*@#&^ wire go until the engine finally died.

Anyway, if there is a problem it's around your high energy ignition, or around hydrogen gas from the battery or gasoline vapors.

Anyway, back to this mess of wires from Radio Shack. What you do, then, is put the fuse into the circuit. You can cut one of the wires that has a pair of battery clips on it, then solder or crimp the fuse into the circuit. Put in a 1-3-5 or so amp fuse and you are set - if you misconnect the wires the fuse will blow and you'll have a laugh (well at least the first time - second time you'll wonder why the connections are so hard to get to).

I have to run

Albertj
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