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 P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!

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TType_Riviera
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PostSubject: Evaporative emissions systems...   Sun May 27, 2007 11:07 pm

after a drive i get out and can smell gas.. down by the rear tire near the filler tube area... thought i had a leak.. no leak i tore all that apart an found nothing,pulled the liner out of the trunk an inspected the sending unit..dry as a bone.. i suspect it has something to do with the evap system/charcoal canister in the rear.. i yank that out.. few drops came out... im stumped..i figure if theres blockage somewhere it would trip a light because the system wasnt working correctly.. since it sure as hell did when i had the solenoids hooked up backwards.. can the canister go bad??? or is there blokage that the computer could care less about?

BTW this is not after i fill up either!!
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PostSubject: P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!   Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:13 pm

my service engine light is coming on, because of this freaking code P1441. on my code reader it says its a manufacture controlled emissions sumthing. i was tryin to see if anyone out there has/had the same problem with their rivs. my is a '96 if that helps i was thinking it might need 02 sensors, but i wanna know that will fix it or rather is it a combination of the things that could cause that code to pull up.

by the way never ask the dealer any questions about codes.....they will never tell the bastards.
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PostSubject: Re: P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!   Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:15 am

DTC P1441: Evaporative Emission (EVAP) System flow during Non-Purge. Does not appear to be O2 related. There's enough info in my 98 service manual to make my eyes glaze over, but it appears the solution is to replace the EVAP purge valve.
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PostSubject: Re: P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!   Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:41 pm

thanks dave.

now my other question is where is that located and what does it look like?
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PostSubject: Re: P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!   Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:35 pm

I'll snap a pic from my manual and post it up shortly. I DO NOT know if this will be the same on your 96!
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PostSubject: Re: P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!   Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:58 pm




Removal: 1) Disconnect the electrical connector and hoses from the EVAP purge solenoid. 2) Bend the tab on the solenoid mounting bracket to remove the EVAP purge solenoid. 3) Remove the EVAP purge solenoid from the bracket.

Installation: 1) Bend the tab on the EVAP purge solenoid mounting bracket to install the solenoid. 2) Install the EVAP purge solenoid. 3) Connect the hoses and electrical connector to the EVAP purge solenoid.

The 2nd picture gives a decent view of where it is located, from a rear view of the engine. I've never messed around with this myself, so don't assume I'm speaking from experience. This info is simply taken from my 98 service manual.
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PostSubject: Re: P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!   Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:01 am

yah that is different from my '96, but thanks.
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PostSubject: Re: P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!   Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:04 am

how did you get you're hands on that damn book. i've been to every parts store i can think of to find a chilton book on our car, and i cant find one
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PostSubject: Re: P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!   Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:19 am

Link

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


Last edited by AA on Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!   Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:35 am

Yep, Ebay or Helms online store. They are not cheap... I think my 3-volume 1998 manuals set me back $100.
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PostSubject: Re: P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!   Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:22 pm

any idea where I could find the pcm wiring scamatics? trying to locate the power wire for the pcm, mine iseems to be dead with no ses light or fuel pump. thanks Anthony
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PostSubject: need help with trouble code PLEASE - evap   Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:01 pm

Just got engine rebuilt 3 days ago and check engine light came on. Scanned and it says "evap purge fault" - can anyone give me an idea of what might cause this? someone told me a ding in my gas tank could cause it, but i wanted some more opinions. It also threw a different code - manufacturers input/output (something like that)
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PostSubject: Re: P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!   Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:26 pm

Please post the code numbers and some info on your car. What year, is it S/C, etc.
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PostSubject: Re: P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!   Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:33 pm

the scanner doesn't give out the code number, just the description. Thats why I'm having trouble figuring it out. riviera is 96 s/c - not sure what other info you would need...
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PostSubject: Re: P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!   Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:50 pm

There are many things that cause the EVAP system to fail a system check. Two ideas that come to mind are leaks and a bad EVAP canister. I think there's also some kind of vent control valve that can cause a problem. Having the code helps narrow it down, but even then it can be hard to fix and expensive. We can hope it's a bad gas cap causing a pressure leak.

My fiance's Toyota had an EVAP canister code 3 years ago and we haven't fixed it yet. It's a $400+ part, and this doesn't effect the performance or economy of the car, so we just leave the SES light on and check for codes every year to be sure nothing else is wrong. I learned that for a Toyota Corolla you should not "top off" the gas tank because fuel can spill down somewhere and cause the canister to fail. Great design from Toyota there! As far as I know, the Riviera's system is fine with top offs, as I've done it many times without problem.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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riv_problems96
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PostSubject: Re: P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!   Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:55 pm

thanks! ill try gas cap first - it has original one from 96. hopefully it is not the canister
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PostSubject: smog ??   Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:54 am

Hey guys, the mechanic told me to wait before getting it smogged because they take rpm's up too high for motor that is not broken in yet - my question - how long should i wait? is there a certain mileage i need to reach? In CA I need smog asap cuz registration expired 06 when car broke down - riding around with 3 yr old tags is not fun..

Thx!
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PostSubject: Re: P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!   Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:01 am

How many miles did your mechanic recommend?
And just how high of an RPM do they run it when they do an Emissions Check.?
I thought they just ran a normal drive cycle on the dyno to record emissions at various RPM's.
If it's anything like what we had here in MA, until just recently, the drive cycle and RPM's run would not hurt a fresh motor.
Maybe you could bring it to an Emissions testing shop and ask them if the "Smog" check will hurt a fresh engine.

Also, Anybody on here familiar with the CA smog check that can answer these questions. I know there is more than one CA member here that can explain the test and weigh in with thought's and comments.

By the way, Congrat's on the fresh rebuild and good luck.
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PostSubject: Re: P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!   Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:43 pm

In 96 and 97 GM put an evap valve and evap switch on the SC'd vehicles. If any of the vacuum lines are misrouted or connected, you can get a code like this.

I would suggest to check the lines and electrical connections to both. And yes..that unplugged elbow on the purge valve isn't supposed to be connected to anything. It's a vent of sorts.
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PostSubject: Re: P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!   Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:08 pm

he just said to wait a week, but no specific mileage - i havent been driving it too much because brakes are bad and I dont wanna get pulled over for old tags but i have gone 250miles on it since i got it rebuilt. Had to get it rebuilt because somehow 2 months after i got a complete tune up (from jiffy lube) it ran out of oil and the serpentine belt flew off - mechanic told me rods and crankshaft were shot from lack of oil[/img]
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PostSubject: Re: P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!   Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:10 pm

I had the shop who rebuilt my engine look at the car - they said all the lines are okay (ill have to re-check that) so i just replaced gas cap - i have to disconnect battery in a little bit to reset and see if check engine comes back on
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PostSubject: Re: P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!   Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:47 am

Did you ever get any compensation from Jiffy Lube for leaving the drain plug loose.
Have heard of and seen this on many cars that have been serviced by Jiffy lube.
I used to work at a GM dealership about a mile from Jiffy Lube and at least 3 or 4 times a year we were paid to replace engines that Jiffy Lube had either left the drain plug loose or didn't put any oil in at all causing engine failure.
All the owners of these cars were compensated fully from Jiffy Lube.
If you havent tried to make a claim against them yet, I would.
An engine teardown report from the engine shop will be enough evidence you need to make a claim. Make sure they document that bearings and rods and any other internal engine components that were damaged due to no or low oil level is on the report.
You still have a chance at some reimbursement even after the repairs have been completed.
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PostSubject: Re: P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!   Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:57 pm

the tune up was in 2006 - i never checked the drain plug and have no proof that is what made my car die frown i wish i had known more about cars when it initially happened
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PostSubject: Re: P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!   Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:33 pm

Helpful instructions for when the smog-nazis fail your test if any of the readiness monitors to be incomplete when you bring your car in, and you've recently cleared your codes or disconnected the battery. This is how to drive the car to get all the system tests done...

http://www.obdii.com/drivecycle.html

There is also a link to the Home Page at the bottom, for other OBD II related info.
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PostSubject: Re: P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!   Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:13 pm

1998 Riv wrote:
DTC P1441: Evaporative Emission (EVAP) System flow during Non-Purge. Does not appear to be O2 related. There's enough info in my 98 service manual to make my eyes glaze over, but it appears the solution is to replace the EVAP purge valve.

I just got the same code. I replaced the Evap Purge Valve, but I'm still getting MIL indication. I've been looking online and found that the problem can either be the Valve, the hoses running from the valve to the charcoal cannister, the charcoal cannister itself or a blown fuse from the circuit. Am I on the right track? Where is the fuse in question if that is indeed the problem?
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