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 Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys

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dtrumbo
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Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Changing serpentine belts EPIC   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 8 EmptyMon Sep 05, 2011 8:38 pm

My belts were looking pretty rough so i decided to change them. You probably know you have to take the motor.mount loose and remove the cast iron braket that attatches it to the motor. The epic part of the story is the bottom most stud had the star end broken off, so i couldnt remove the bracket. I coukd leave gaps to move the belts in and around it. But i forgot the routing and was away from my computer (oh no!!). Well i had to figure out the routing on top of figuring out how to manuever the belt around that bracket. It took me 10 hours plus three re-assemblies to get the belts on. Thought yoi guys might think thatwas funny.
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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 8 EmptyMon Sep 05, 2011 8:50 pm

If you do get a replacement stud, you can get the old stud out by locking two nuts together, if there are enough threads left. Another trick for that lower stud is to cut the spacer in half (once you do get it out) before you reassemble so in the future you don't have to lower the engine to get the spacer out of the way.

The Series I 3800 (and many other series II 3800s) have the easiest belts ever to change. I can't imagine what the engineers were thinking when they put together the design for that front motor mount. I too was horrified the first time I changed the belt.
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dtrumbo
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Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 8 EmptyMon Sep 05, 2011 8:54 pm

Well, mine is a 3800 series II and it would have been a 30 minute job tops. But with that lower stud like that it was a huge pain. I didn't think of locking the two nutz together to get a grip, but thanks for the advice. there is plenty of room for that.
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albertj
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Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 8 EmptyMon Sep 05, 2011 9:23 pm

dtrumbo wrote:
Well, mine is a 3800 series II and it would have been a 30 minute job tops. But with that lower stud like that it was a huge pain. I didn't think of locking the two nutz together to get a grip, but thanks for the advice. there is plenty of room for that.

For the rest of you reading this - there was a "running change" on the S-II 3800 engine front motor mount, the lower right mount standoff was replaced by a bolt and ferrule. What you do is support the engine (NOT THE OIL PAN!), you don't have to jack it up just hold it steady - then remove that bolt, slip it out of the mount and the ferrule can then be removed. You may need to move the engine a little to let the ferrule drop out. THEN the belts can be taken out and put on through that gap.

On many if not most 97 (it was a running change not a MY change) and later there is a ferrule in the mount - take off the pass side wheel and the inner fender, then just look at the engine - it is the lower right hand bolt. Clean the grease off the area then remove the bolt. Anyway with that bolt out you can get the SC belt off/on no problem.jack

Here is the problem - it actually is pretty easy to mess up the OP gasket by jacking the engine at the pan. What happens is the gasket can crush a bit, depending on composition, then will leak when the weight's off.

If you want to try hoisting I have heard of this but not done it - use a sawhorse set and some 2x4s to make a frame you can set over the engine (resting on the car's frame) and use a come-along with chain on the end to hoist the engine. I was told that this worked since you are not removing the engine, just holding the weight still while messing with one of the mounts. I kind of think the guy (a sprint car racer where I used to work) was pulling my leg but it seems plausible. Again - I have not done this.

Anyway - If you look around long enough under the engine you should find a boss or other point to put a block of wood and floor jack under to accomplish the same thing as the make-do 2x4 hoist. The idea is just to hold the engine in place so there's no torque on the ferrule.

Albertj


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deekster_caddy
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Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 8 EmptyMon Sep 05, 2011 10:10 pm

On my car there was NOT enough room to get the stud out far enough to remove the ferrule/spacer without lowering the engine a significant amount (3-4 inches maybe). That required using an engine hoist for all the raising/lowering. I did jack a 3800 for this once and ruined the oil pan gasket on an N/A Park Ave (same setup). So Don't Do That.

Also I was referring to the ferrule when I said spacer. Cut it in half while it's out.

I don't see how you would have enough room for anything 2x4 plus a come-along above the engine, unless you are building a giant tripod/cube above the car. I have used a jack with a block of wood on the harmonic balancer, it mostly works but you have to keep a really close eye on the wood being out of the way, making sure you are NOT on the oil pan, making sure the jack isn't moving forward/backward while you are jacking up and down, etc. A bottle jack would probably work better than a standard floor jack for these reasons.
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dtrumbo
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Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 8 EmptyMon Sep 05, 2011 11:02 pm

When i supported the motor i out the pressure.on the bolts to the oil pan. That way it doesnt add any pressure to the gasket. I do not have any leaks and i even lowered the bidy while the engine was supported to give a big enough gap to move the belts around. (just because of the broken stud)
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dboydakid
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Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 8 EmptyWed Sep 07, 2011 4:06 pm

is there any way,...the pics can be put back up??? i kno im years late...lol..
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AA
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Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 8 EmptyWed Sep 07, 2011 4:13 pm

I have the pics, but it may be a while until I can find them and re-post. I'll try when I have some time.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
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^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
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'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
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dboydakid
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Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 8 EmptyWed Sep 07, 2011 6:07 pm

THANKS BRO..IM ACTUALLY TRYING TO REPLACE ANY REPLACEABLE PULLEY THAT I CAN ..I JUST DONT REALLY KNOW WHAT IM LOOKING FOR..I NEED HELP LOL.. TRYING TO ELIMINATE A SCREECHING NOISE COMING FROM SOMEWHERE IN THE BELT AREA ..ITS GETTIN ON MY NERVES BADDD
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dtrumbo
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Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 8 EmptyWed Sep 07, 2011 9:34 pm

Could be the clutch on the a/c.
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dboydakid
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Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 8 EmptyWed Sep 07, 2011 10:00 pm

THE CLUTCH WHAT?? .. IT MKES THE NOISE WHETHER THE AC IS ON OR OFF.
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deekster_caddy
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Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 8 EmptyWed Sep 07, 2011 10:37 pm

Could be the alternator bearings are shot. Get a piece of garden hose and use it like a stethoscope to pinpoint the source. Or get a stethoscope...
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dtrumbo
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Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 8 EmptyThu Sep 08, 2011 1:09 am

dboydakid wrote:
THE CLUTCH WHAT?? .. IT MKES THE NOISE WHETHER THE AC IS ON OR OFF.
It making the noise whether it is on or off is irrelavent as the cluth on the air conditioner pump can slip wheter it is engaged or not. But the post above me it right. That would be the best method.
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Jack the R
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Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 8 EmptyThu Sep 08, 2011 6:25 am

dboydakid wrote:
is there any way,...the pics can be put back up??? i kno im years late...lol..

PM me and I'll send you the pics. I've meant to put these back up myself for ages, but the comic comes first, and it's a brutal time consumer.
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dboydakid
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 8 EmptyThu Sep 08, 2011 3:38 pm

DEEKSTER CADDY- THNX..BUT IM ON MY 3RD ALTERNATOR..FOR THAT REASON..BUT THIS NOISE IS NOT THAT...
AT FIRST I THOUGHT IT WAS THE TENSIONER..SO I REPLACED THAT..THEN THE NOISE CAME BACK..DID THAT TWICE SMH...THEN I THOUGHT MAYBE ITS THE TENSIONER PULLEY..WASNT THAT..

SO MAYBE (DTRUMBO) IS RIGHT.. BUT IS THAT A EASY FIX? ONE THAT A REGULAR MECHANIC SHOULD BE ABLE TO HANDLE?
IVE HEARD AND WITNESSED THAT NOT EVERY MECHANIC CAN WORK ON A 3800 SERIES..ESPECIALLY RIVIERAS.SMH
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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 8 EmptyThu Sep 08, 2011 5:00 pm

There is more than one idler pulley, and it's very possible for one to have bad bearings. Another way to find it is with the engine off, remove the belts from their tensioners, and spin every pulley by hand. One of them won't feel right.
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denim
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 8 EmptyThu Sep 08, 2011 5:15 pm

Ummm....
Not to state the obvious, but is it possible and as simple that it IS the belt? Been around cars a long time and heard maybe a hundred old belts squealing like my sister a 2 years old. When they slip, they squeal. Then again I've been wrong so many times, feel like Wile E. Coyote.
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LARRY70GS
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Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 8 EmptyThu Sep 08, 2011 5:20 pm

denim wrote:
Ummm....
Not to state the obvious, but is it possible and as simple that it IS the belt? Been around cars a long time and heard maybe a hundred old belts squealing like my sister a 2 years old. When they slip, they squeal. Then again I've been wrong so many times, feel like Wile E. Coyote.

Yes, that is very true of a V belt. They can make all kinds of noise from a squeal to a click when they are worn or glazed, but serpentine belts are pretty quiet. The pulleys on the other hand have a history of self destruction. They usually give you plenty of warning before they seize and take the belts with them. When I did my water pump, I changed them all.

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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denim
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Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 8 EmptyThu Sep 08, 2011 5:47 pm

Right... most of the belts I mentioned were in fact v-belts.
So, drop another anvil on my head smile
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dboydakid
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 8 EmptyThu Sep 08, 2011 5:52 pm

thanks..im waiting for rockauto.com to deliver my gator belts as we speak...but..where did you get your pulleys from?? and wich pulleys did u change
??? becuase i want to change all of the ones i can today or as soon as possible
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 8 EmptyThu Sep 08, 2011 6:24 pm

Noah, consider replacing the pulleys with steel ones. The stock ones are plastic and can/will break. When they let go, they can create a bit of trouble (this, on occasion, is an understatement).
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LARRY70GS
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Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 8 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 8 EmptyThu Sep 08, 2011 6:33 pm

dboydakid wrote:
thanks..im waiting for rockauto.com to deliver my gator belts as we speak...but..where did you get your pulleys from?? and wich pulleys did u change
??? becuase i want to change all of the ones i can today or as soon as possible

I got them from Rockauto This picture helps.

Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 8 Pulleys

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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dboydakid
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dboydakid

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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 8 EmptyThu Sep 08, 2011 6:39 pm

I DNT MEAN TO ASK A MILLION N 30 QUESTIONS..
BUT I SAW THAT PIC ..AND STILL DIDNT KNO WICH ONES WERE CHANGEABLE..WICH ONES DID YOU CHANGE??
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LARRY70GS
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 8 EmptyThu Sep 08, 2011 6:51 pm

#3 (2), #8, #9 Four pulleys in all. Three of them are EASY to change, that #9 though is behind the engine bracket. Got to remove the mount to get to it.

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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dboydakid
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dboydakid

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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 8 EmptyFri Sep 09, 2011 4:15 pm

thanks man...number 3 has 2? or u replaced it twice?
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