Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys

No. Both belts run through that bracket. You'd have to remove it for either belt, or just remove that spacer that's mentioned in this thread. But, you've already stated that you're well beyond that point.

IIRC, it won't work that way. You'll have to put the serpentine belt on first, then route the supercharger belt, and bolt up the engine bracket afterwards. After the engine bracket is in place, finish routing the serpentine and supercharger belts.

My brother liked to do his long highway trips without the supercharger belt so he could run on cheap gas. I think he was wasting his time, but I digress. The point is that he would disconnect the supercharger belt bring all of the slack up away from the main belt, bundle it up and zip tie it to the STB with a needle-nose vice grip holding the folds of belt together. I'm sure you could find something else to tie it off to if you wanted to.

My point is just that yes it is possible to run with the supercharger belt pulled to the side, but I don't recommend it, and if you do try this be very secure with the excess belt (without damaging it!)

deekster_caddy wrote:

My brother liked to do his long highway trips without the supercharger belt so he could run on cheap gas. I think he was wasting his time, but I digress. The point is that he would disconnect the supercharger belt bring all of the slack up away from the main belt, bundle it up and zip tie it to the STB with a needle-nose vice grip holding the folds of belt together. I'm sure you could find something else to tie it off to if you wanted to.

My point is just that yes it is possible to run with the supercharger belt pulled to the side, but I don't recommend it, and if you do try this be very secure with the excess belt (without damaging it!)

This might be the most useful post iv'e seen on this entire thread lol.

Mostly because it made me think to myself that if I notice the supercharger belt come off again, now I have my socket wrench set in the car at all times to put the belt back on before it goes through the main engine belt again.

Anyway I got it all done a few days ago and it was pure hell because of my dyslexia. I mean in shop class it took me 7 minutes when my teacher threw all the parts on the floor of rear drum brakes for an S10 pickup..but engine belts have always screwed with my head. It took me a few days to do it because I didn't wanna keep unbolting the bracket on and off, I was unsure about how to route the supercharger belt, and I was waiting on the shop manuals to be sent to me from my step dad which never got here lol.

Also, if the nut on the big bolt with the e10 external torx bolt wasn't seized, I'd have never gotten the bolt out and I realized it's nearly impossible to do without that stud out of the bottom bolt.

Something I noticed was that the guide doesn't really cover how to take the engine mount off very well even though it is extremely easy, it's something Iv'e never done before and I didn't realize it slides in and out so easily, and didn't know it had two bolts holding it. Problem is you can't see the bolts very well especially in a dark muddy driveway, and my dad was like yeah go use a piece of wood and pry it out.

Ended up snapping a two by four trying to wriggle it free and bent the mount a little. Guess I didn't know my own strength because I thought the mount would be a lot stronger. After that, I was like okay time to use a military grade flashlight and I found the outher bolt and realized how it works. Luckily the engine mount was barely bent but I was concerned for a while, and I had to hammer it back in with a sledgehammer.. I guess more tension holding everything in place doesn't hurt and ironically the bump I get in reverse isn't quite as bad. Maybe not the worse thing that happened. My dad's mechanic friend sent us some pics from his shop with good diagrams.







I found that these diagrams helped me the best.

Secondly, the belt diagrams are all over the place and there is no such thing as a camshaft pulley. I know it sounds stupid to say that but for some reason when I know exactly what every pulley does, it helped me a lot routing it.

I'm actually a little sad that I didn't have more downtime and I was missing class because I would have made video logs to make it easier to do to help anyone.

Also there's two spacers not one, hopefully I didn't miss one and there's a third but I think there's only two. I found a random spacer in leaves under my car and was like WHAAT ITS NOT THE RIGHT SIZE TO BE THE BIG BOLT

then realized it went best fit into the middle bolt behind the waterpump behind the bracket.

I wish I had a jigsaw honestly to cut the big spacer in half then I'd make a castle shaped ridge system to lock them together if I had the right tools. Maybe I can custom order something if this ever happens again but I'm low on money and supplies.

one thing that I found made it so much easier is when the bracket is off, figure out the belt routings first, make mockups of both belt routings and using a construct in your mind, you have to imagine where the waterpump goes and just fight it into place as best as you can through the bracket, and what I did was actually install the supercharger pulley first to make sure it doesn't rub on anything like the bracket because it's actually pretty easy to install wrong. Me and my dad found like 3 different ways to install the supercharger belt and it was rubbing no matter what unless it was snaked through the bracket perfectly but it's almost impossible to do unless the bottom stud comes out, in my opinion. Make sure the supercharger belt fits though the idler pulley nooked in the engine cradle that bolts to the engine mount, and I would actually push up the bracket hard against the block to make sure tolerance are good before you decide it's good. It's a really tight fit.

After that I'd recommend zip tieing it like the other guy said if you have a SBT (Strut Brace Tower), if not then use your imagination. I used a screw driver and belt tension on the supercharger belt almost fully installed by putting the screwdriver through two holes and it wasn't going anywhere. You could also probably get away with duct taping it very securely to the radiator frame thing. After you think you have the belts mocked up perfectly and know it's not going anywhere then bolt everything back up. Put the studs back into the block through the big cradle thing with the reverse torx bits, then bolt the bolts on. Remember the bottom stud is bigger and uses an 18mm bolt. I used a small socket wrench with an adapter to bolt it back up. if it's hard to get the ratchet to click well due to inconsistencies in how freely it turns due to corrosion then I'd recommend trying to hold tension on the socket downward.

The waterpump is really a bitch to get back on. The best way I found to not wrestle with it for half an hour is to lay on top of the engine on my stomach, looking down at the waterpump, using one hand to steady the 13mm socket on the top bolt, feel where the thread is with the other hand, then holding tension on both the pullie so it won't move and turning the socket, try to imagine where the thread goes in your mind and keep turning and place it to where the thread is with the other hand. after I got the hang of it since I had to take the waterpump off a few times, I could get it back on within a couple of minutes instead of wrestling with it, and getting mad at it, and it's a lot less fatiguing in that position, and depth perception works much better to imagine where the thread is. I wish they designed it to fit on top of a shelf block thing so you know when you have the right placement. That's why it's not easy to put back on in an awkward position.

Lastly one huge thing that helped me was I noticed the belt kept slipping off the power steering pump when it was time to swing the tensioner pulley to get it on. Something that solved this for me was securely duct taping the belt to the power steering pump pulley so it won't slip off, then getting the belt on, and removing the duct tape after the job is done.

after everything is bolted and the serpentine belt is on, then simply take tension off the supercharger belt out of the way then slip it on the last two pullies and it's easier that way.

I wish I had more help for people this happens to but what can I say I was on a clock lol.

if it happens again, ill make a video log of how I do stuff and I hope that helps.


By the way would a bad coupler cause the supercharger pulley to come off? My dad things the mechanic shop that worked on my car for 41 days got lazy and didn't install the supercharger pulley right and just decided to go with it rubbing on the bracket. The engine does sound healthier now, and it shifts better into second, and the backup bump isn't quiet as bad but sometimes that bump hits harder and sometimes it's a smooth bump so I don't get that.

maybe if I have time in the summer I'll dedicate time and replace the belts again cause they're a little marred from the tangle they were in.

Normally I'd be a lot more worried about my supercharger belt on knowing it slipped off twice so far, but now that I know how it all works and the routing and whatnot, I can just slip it back on on the fly with a 15mm socket if it happens again, and I immediately can tall by the sound of the engine when the SC belt comes off whether or not I drive it hard.


Also one more big thing. I can't find anyone to pull the 3.4 inch pulley off my snout and put the 3.8 inch one on. is there any cheap tool on amazon that would work even for a one time use? I'm thinking I'll just put a modular pulley system on some time soon.

Also what does physical damage to the coupler look like? The one I bought off craigslist I'm suspicious off because it was $20 lol. I mean I couldn't see any damage on it, and it looked like a re manned unit from ZZP because a lot of paint was polished off but I could see where enamel used to be. I don't know of anyone else that sells remanned units like that and I hope it is because I think they use better quality components in the coupler and whatnot, but I could hear some bearing noise when I tried to spin the pulley on the snout I bought. It wasn't loud. it was really soft and dull but I wonder if anything is wrong with it.

Alright guys, ever since I bought my Riv, I've been getting an intermittent high pitched hissing type noise coming from around the S/C tensioner and idler pullies. I've replaced both belts, and all the tensioner and idler pullies. The noise is still there. It seems to happen more when the weather is cold. It's dipped under 30°F the last couple nights.

Here's a video I took trying to capture the sound: https://youtu.be/BOKLnTtPjSE

You can really distinguish the sound from the normal engine noise towards the end of the video. It's that hissing noise.

Corey see if you can find a Grand Prix club active near you, someone will have a pulley tool for the 3800 that can help you swap. One of the reasons many of us recommend using an MPS is so that you can bolt on different pullies.

So how exactly does one swap the belts by just removing the spacer? My belt was just toasted and now its time for a new belt.

Had the pleasure of doing my belts today.  I elected to cut the spacer in half in case I ever have to do this again.  That worked out fine, everything went back together and it will be easier next time.

The accessory belt went on fine, the supercharger belt was a pain.  Even with my original tensioner cranked all the way, I still had to pry it on. Anybody else have that experience? They were Delco belts.  We will see if it stretches out a bit.

Never heard of this before, but if it works you might never change your Riv's belts again.

Larry, is there a trick to cutting the spacer?  I thought about it when I was still down in Marin, but my perfectionist brain was complaining that if it didn't mesh again perfectly there would be sideways torque on the bolt, possibly bending or breaking it.

On the other hand, when my last blower-belt went bad prematurely (the one with only one pump to run!) I had a shop here in Salem do them.  I PRINTED OUT THE FRICKIN' MANUAL FOR THEM, yet it wasn't ready when I returned and the idiot was mopping up coolant from the bolt that he did pull...  

Hi Jack,
Now, personally, I NEVER mock people who spend the time to make YouTube videos.  I may politely point out something or ask a probing question, but I never crap on those who I believe are honestly trying to help the rest of us (and some of those commenters are a$$holes!) 

I'm sure we can all come up with flaws in this scheme, I won't even mention them.
BUT, I'm thinkin' that if there is someone here who has an average car, with normal belt access, THAT would be the place to try this trick and see what happens!

P.S.  That guy thinks his FORD belts are a PITA??  BWAAAAHHAHAHHAHAAAA
P.P.S.  I looked at some of the comments on the YT site, and already saw some dangerous assumptions.  Someone today said he was going to do this when he changed his TIMING BELT......  I left a reply that I HOPE he sees before he does it.   The short version is:  Before you use this idea with a timing belt, make absolutely sure that your motor is not an "INTERFERENCE ENGINE"!

Eldo wrote:

Larry, is there a trick to cutting the spacer?  I thought about it when I was still down in Marin, but my perfectionist brain was complaining that if it didn't mesh again perfectly there would be sideways torque on the bolt, possibly bending or breaking it.

On the other hand, when my last blower-belt went bad prematurely (the one with only one pump to run!) I had a shop here in Salem do them.  I PRINTED OUT THE FRICKIN' MANUAL FOR THEM, yet it wasn't ready when I returned and the idiot was mopping up coolant from the bolt that he did pull...  

Mark, I cut it in half as best I could. Wasn't perfectly straight, but it was pretty easy to just twist both pieces until it lined up. Tightened up just fine. It will be a ton easier if I ever need to do this again.

LARRY70GS wrote:

Had the pleasure of doing my belts today.  I elected to cut the spacer in half in case I ever have to do this again.  That worked out fine, everything went back together and it will be easier next time.

The accessory belt went on fine, the supercharger belt was a pain.  Even with my original tensioner cranked all the way, I still had to pry it on.  Anybody else have that experience?  They were Delco belts.  We will see if it stretches out a bit.

doublecheck the belt routing and belt length.  I think there is more than one routing that will function IIRC.  When I take mine off/put it on it's snug but I line it up on all but the tensioner pulley and then with tensioner cranked all the way it does slip onto the tensioner pulley, using my fingers, without fuss.  

That said, my Gatorback belts have not stretched significantly.

I am positive that my belt routing is correct. When I consulted with my fellow club members, they also related difficulties with the SC belt being tight. I did verify the belt part numbers, and they were correct. I used the AC Delco belts,

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=347533&cc=1303322&jsn=397

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=347589&cc=1303322&jsn=400

I just finished doing my coupler, and the belt did stretch because I had absolutely no problem getting it back on.

Jack the R wrote:

Never heard of this before, but if it works you might never change your Riv's belts again.

I use Aerospace 303 on the weatherstripping rubber and plastic trim on my cars. As a preservative, IMHO it works like **nothing**else. It does weather off to an extent. You **must** let it soak in to be useful.

I dunno about using it on belts and tire tread b/c I don't know enough about the chemistry involved, and can't surmise much from the MSDS. Works fine on the tire sidewalls, though. As high as the tension is on the belts, I doubt there would be any slipping.

As far as the guy on the u-toob video saying 'use any preservative' - on most there is fine print on the label saying not to use them on belts, IIRC. I'll look at my 303 and see if it warns the same.

Eldo wrote:

Someone today said he was going to do this when he changed his TIMING BELT......  I left a reply that I HOPE he sees before he does it.   The short version is:  Before you use this idea with a timing belt, make absolutely sure that your motor is not an "INTERFERENCE ENGINE"!

LARRY70GS wrote:

I am positive that my belt routing is correct.  When I consulted with my fellow club members, they also related difficulties with the SC belt being tight.  I did verify the belt part numbers, and they were correct.  I used the AC Delco belts,

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=347533&cc=1303322&jsn=397

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=347589&cc=1303322&jsn=400

I just finished doing my coupler, and the belt did stretch because I had absolutely no problem getting it back on.

OK then.

I've just never had that problem.

albertj wrote:

LARRY70GS wrote:

I am positive that my belt routing is correct.  When I consulted with my fellow club members, they also related difficulties with the SC belt being tight.  I did verify the belt part numbers, and they were correct.  I used the AC Delco belts,

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=347533&cc=1303322&jsn=397

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=347589&cc=1303322&jsn=400

I just finished doing my coupler, and the belt did stretch because I had absolutely no problem getting it back on.

OK then.

I've just never had that problem.

Everything seems good. It's quiet, and the belts look great. I'll leave well enough alone. Are you sure that there is more than one way to route the SC belt? I used the routing from my FSM.

LARRY70GS wrote:

albertj wrote:

LARRY70GS wrote:

I am positive that my belt routing is correct.  When I consulted with my fellow club members, they also related difficulties with the SC belt being tight.  I did verify the belt part numbers, and they were correct.  I used the AC Delco belts,

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=347533&cc=1303322&jsn=397

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=347589&cc=1303322&jsn=400

I just finished doing my coupler, and the belt did stretch because I had absolutely no problem getting it back on.

OK then.

I've just never had that problem.

Everything seems good.  It's quiet, and the belts look great.  I'll leave well enough alone.  Are you sure that there is more than one way to route the SC belt?  I used the routing from my FSM.

The way shown in the FSM is the way I do it. I got confused once and the way I figured out I got it wrong is the belt was almost impossible to slip onto the tensioner pulley. I will have to go look under the hood and see if I recall how that went, it was quite some time ago.

Albertj

You had me thinking so I went out and looked again. I took a picture of the FSM to compare. It matches.

LARRY70GS wrote:

You had me thinking so I went out and looked again.  I took a picture of the FSM to compare.  It matches.

I looked at my engine and could not remember how that misrouting went. (shrug)

I don't see a write up for the modular pulley, so I'll put this here.  This is the ZZP MPS which can take a six rib belt.  At first I tried running it with the belt all the way to the inside, but I think this might be the correct position.  I put the MPS on because W-body store bent my stock pulley when they rebuilt the SC snout.  I had a bad chirruping sound which appeared to be coming from the pulley.  With the belt all the way to the inside on the MPS, the chirruping was worse, but so far the sound is gone in this position.  It may come back when the weather changes, but for now it's gone.  Hopefully I haven't messed my new snout bearings up running the bent pulley, or the belt in the wrong position.

The bottom diagram shows how the MPS is installed - the hub is flush with the end of the SC shaft. I don't think the SC puller/installer will let you get this part wrong, unless you don't push the hub on far enough. I don't think you can push it on too far.

It just occurred to me that my Gatorback serpentine belts have been on for more than 100,000 miles (at my speeds this would be 2000 to 2500 hours of use).

This is the present condition of my 89006 idler pulley, after less than 10k miles.  

Does it look bad?  I'm concerned about the gap in the plastic piece on the bolt, but that may have always been there and might not be a problem at all.  I'm also bothered by the seepage from the bearing, but maybe that isn't an issue either.  I put it back on and it seems to spin fine.