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 Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys

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Eldo
Expert
Eldo

Name : Mark
Age : 55
Location : West Salem, Oregon... FINALLY
Joined : 2009-04-09
Post Count : 3046
Merit : 102

Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 14 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 14 EmptyThu Jun 21, 2018 11:49 pm

Hi Jack,
Now, personally, I NEVER mock people who spend the time to make YouTube videos.  I may politely point out something or ask a probing question, but I never crap on those who I believe are honestly trying to help the rest of us (and some of those commenters are a$$holes!) 

I'm sure we can all come up with flaws in this scheme, I won't even mention them.
BUT, I'm thinkin' that if there is someone here who has an average car, with normal belt access, THAT would be the place to try this trick and see what happens!

P.S.  That guy thinks his FORD belts are a PITA??  BWAAAAHHAHAHHAHAAAA
P.P.S.  I looked at some of the comments on the YT site, and already saw some dangerous assumptions.  Someone today said he was going to do this when he changed his TIMING BELT......  I left a reply that I HOPE he sees before he does it.   The short version is:  Before you use this idea with a timing belt, make absolutely sure that your motor is not an "INTERFERENCE ENGINE"!
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LARRY70GS
Aficionado
LARRY70GS

Name : Larry
Age : 63
Location : Oakland Gardens, NY
Joined : 2007-01-23
Post Count : 1690
Merit : 111

Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 14 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 14 EmptyFri Jun 22, 2018 3:07 pm

Eldo wrote:
Larry, is there a trick to cutting the spacer?  I thought about it when I was still down in Marin, but my perfectionist brain was complaining that if it didn't mesh again perfectly there would be sideways torque on the bolt, possibly bending or breaking it.

On the other hand, when my last blower-belt went bad prematurely (the one with only one pump to run!) I had a shop here in Salem do them.  I PRINTED OUT THE FRICKIN' MANUAL FOR THEM, yet it wasn't ready when I returned and the idiot was mopping up coolant from the bolt that he did pull...   headbutt

Mark, I cut it in half as best I could. Wasn't perfectly straight, but it was pretty easy to just twist both pieces until it lined up. Tightened up just fine. It will be a ton easier if I ever need to do this again.

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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albertj
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albertj

Name :
Location : Finger Lakes of New York State
Joined : 2007-05-31
Post Count : 7474
Merit : 152

Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 14 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 14 EmptyFri Jun 22, 2018 5:25 pm

LARRY70GS wrote:
Had the pleasure of doing my belts today.  I elected to cut the spacer in half in case I ever have to do this again.  That worked out fine, everything went back together and it will be easier next time.

The accessory belt went on fine, the supercharger belt was a pain.  Even with my original tensioner cranked all the way, I still had to pry it on.  Anybody else have that experience?  They were Delco belts.  We will see if it stretches out a bit.

doublecheck the belt routing and belt length.  I think there is more than one routing that will function IIRC.  When I take mine off/put it on it's snug but I line it up on all but the tensioner pulley and then with tensioner cranked all the way it does slip onto the tensioner pulley, using my fingers, without fuss.  

That said, my Gatorback belts have not stretched significantly.
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LARRY70GS
Aficionado
LARRY70GS

Name : Larry
Age : 63
Location : Oakland Gardens, NY
Joined : 2007-01-23
Post Count : 1690
Merit : 111

Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 14 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 14 EmptyFri Jun 22, 2018 6:08 pm

I am positive that my belt routing is correct. When I consulted with my fellow club members, they also related difficulties with the SC belt being tight. I did verify the belt part numbers, and they were correct. I used the AC Delco belts,

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=347533&cc=1303322&jsn=397

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=347589&cc=1303322&jsn=400

I just finished doing my coupler, and the belt did stretch because I had absolutely no problem getting it back on.

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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albertj
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albertj

Name :
Location : Finger Lakes of New York State
Joined : 2007-05-31
Post Count : 7474
Merit : 152

Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 14 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 14 EmptyFri Jun 22, 2018 7:38 pm

Jack the R wrote:


Never heard of this before, but if it works you might never change your Riv's belts again.

I use Aerospace 303 on the weatherstripping rubber and plastic trim on my cars. As a preservative, IMHO it works like **nothing**else. It does weather off to an extent. You **must** let it soak in to be useful.

I dunno about using it on belts and tire tread b/c I don't know enough about the chemistry involved, and can't surmise much from the MSDS. Works fine on the tire sidewalls, though. As high as the tension is on the belts, I doubt there would be any slipping.

As far as the guy on the u-toob video saying 'use any preservative' - on most there is fine print on the label saying not to use them on belts, IIRC. I'll look at my 303 and see if it warns the same.

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Jack the R
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Jack the R

Joined : 2007-01-16
Post Count : 6884
Merit : 90

Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 14 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 14 EmptySat Jun 23, 2018 12:45 am

Eldo wrote:
Someone today said he was going to do this when he changed his TIMING BELT......  I left a reply that I HOPE he sees before he does it.   The short version is:  Before you use this idea with a timing belt, make absolutely sure that your motor is not an "INTERFERENCE ENGINE"!



popcorn

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Jack the R
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Jack the R

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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 14 EmptySat Jun 23, 2018 1:40 am

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albertj
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albertj

Name :
Location : Finger Lakes of New York State
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Post Count : 7474
Merit : 152

Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 14 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 14 EmptySun Jun 24, 2018 11:46 pm

LARRY70GS wrote:
I am positive that my belt routing is correct.  When I consulted with my fellow club members, they also related difficulties with the SC belt being tight.  I did verify the belt part numbers, and they were correct.  I used the AC Delco belts,

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=347533&cc=1303322&jsn=397

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=347589&cc=1303322&jsn=400

I just finished doing my coupler, and the belt did stretch because I had absolutely no problem getting it back on.

OK then.

I've just never had that problem.
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LARRY70GS
Aficionado
LARRY70GS

Name : Larry
Age : 63
Location : Oakland Gardens, NY
Joined : 2007-01-23
Post Count : 1690
Merit : 111

Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 14 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 14 EmptyMon Jun 25, 2018 4:53 pm

albertj wrote:
LARRY70GS wrote:
I am positive that my belt routing is correct.  When I consulted with my fellow club members, they also related difficulties with the SC belt being tight.  I did verify the belt part numbers, and they were correct.  I used the AC Delco belts,

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=347533&cc=1303322&jsn=397

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=347589&cc=1303322&jsn=400

I just finished doing my coupler, and the belt did stretch because I had absolutely no problem getting it back on.

OK then.

I've just never had that problem.

Everything seems good. It's quiet, and the belts look great. I'll leave well enough alone. Are you sure that there is more than one way to route the SC belt? I used the routing from my FSM.

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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albertj
Guru
albertj

Name :
Location : Finger Lakes of New York State
Joined : 2007-05-31
Post Count : 7474
Merit : 152

Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 14 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 14 EmptyMon Jun 25, 2018 5:01 pm

LARRY70GS wrote:
albertj wrote:
LARRY70GS wrote:
I am positive that my belt routing is correct.  When I consulted with my fellow club members, they also related difficulties with the SC belt being tight.  I did verify the belt part numbers, and they were correct.  I used the AC Delco belts,

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=347533&cc=1303322&jsn=397

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=347589&cc=1303322&jsn=400

I just finished doing my coupler, and the belt did stretch because I had absolutely no problem getting it back on.

OK then.

I've just never had that problem.

Everything seems good.  It's quiet, and the belts look great.  I'll leave well enough alone.  Are you sure that there is more than one way to route the SC belt?  I used the routing from my FSM.

The way shown in the FSM is the way I do it. I got confused once and the way I figured out I got it wrong is the belt was almost impossible to slip onto the tensioner pulley. I will have to go look under the hood and see if I recall how that went, it was quite some time ago.

Albertj
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LARRY70GS
Aficionado
LARRY70GS

Name : Larry
Age : 63
Location : Oakland Gardens, NY
Joined : 2007-01-23
Post Count : 1690
Merit : 111

Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 14 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 14 EmptyMon Jun 25, 2018 7:16 pm

You had me thinking so I went out and looked again. I took a picture of the FSM to compare. It matches.

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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albertj
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albertj

Name :
Location : Finger Lakes of New York State
Joined : 2007-05-31
Post Count : 7474
Merit : 152

Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 14 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 14 EmptyMon Jun 25, 2018 8:57 pm

LARRY70GS wrote:
You had me thinking so I went out and looked again.  I took a picture of the FSM to compare.  It matches.

I looked at my engine and could not remember how that misrouting went. (shrug)
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Jack the R
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Jack the R

Joined : 2007-01-16
Post Count : 6884
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Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 14 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 14 EmptyThu Jun 13, 2019 1:59 am

Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 14 Y4ksp7rq

I don't see a write up for the modular pulley, so I'll put this here.  This is the ZZP MPS which can take a six rib belt.  At first I tried running it with the belt all the way to the inside, but I think this might be the correct position.  I put the MPS on because W-body store bent my stock pulley when they rebuilt the SC snout.  I had a bad chirruping sound which appeared to be coming from the pulley.  With the belt all the way to the inside on the MPS, the chirruping was worse, but so far the sound is gone in this position.  It may come back when the weather changes, but for now it's gone.  Hopefully I haven't messed my new snout bearings up running the bent pulley, or the belt in the wrong position.

The bottom diagram shows how the MPS is installed - the hub is flush with the end of the SC shaft. I don't think the SC puller/installer will let you get this part wrong, unless you don't push the hub on far enough. I don't think you can push it on too far.
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albertj
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albertj

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Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 14 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 14 EmptyThu Jun 13, 2019 2:49 pm

It just occurred to me that my Gatorback serpentine belts have been on for more than 100,000 miles (at my speeds this would be 2000 to 2500 hours of use).
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Jack the R
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Jack the R

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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 14 EmptyWed Aug 07, 2019 4:47 pm

Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 14 Yx8jthsk

This is the present condition of my 89006 idler pulley, after less than 10k miles.  

Does it look bad?  I'm concerned about the gap in the plastic piece on the bolt, but that may have always been there and might not be a problem at all.  I'm also bothered by the seepage from the bearing, but maybe that isn't an issue either.  I put it back on and it seems to spin fine.
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Rickw
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Name : Rick
Location : Lancaster, MA
Joined : 2008-09-13
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Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 14 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 14 EmptyFri Aug 09, 2019 6:22 am

I'd be a little concerned about the seepage of grease from a so called sealed bearing. That's a steady stream of grease coming out of that. I know you already put it back on but I would seriously consider replacing that bearing. The seal is failing.

This Chinese stuff tends to fail sooner than later. Not saying that it is a Chinese bearing but that's what I've seen in the past.
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Jack the R
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Jack the R

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Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 14 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 14 EmptyFri Aug 09, 2019 12:01 pm

I haven't put the car back together yet, waiting for AC Delco o-rings to come in. Might as well replace this too and check the others. This could well be where my squeek was coming from.

You know, between replacing the tensioners and now this, I wonder if I haven't replaced all the pulleys I replaced a few thousand miles ago again.
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Rickw
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Name : Rick
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 14 EmptyFri Aug 09, 2019 2:09 pm

Jack the R wrote:
You know, between replacing the tensioners and now this, I wonder if I haven't replaced all the pulleys I replaced a few thousand miles ago again.  

Sorry you only got a few thousand miles out of that pulley/bearing but it is failing and you caught it before it eventually would have caused you some real heart ache and labor.

I never had any of mine fail that quickly though. To hear that you've possibly replaced every pulley with a sealed bearing with so little mileage is just not right.
What kind of crap are they selling.

I replaced all of mine at the same time and put new Gatorbacks on it not long after buying my car which only had about 75 - 80K at the time. Not because they needed them but because I was told that it would be a good thing to do as far as preventive maintenance. Never had to touch any of them again. All was good until I got rid of the car with 130K miles.

Makes me think of just how much work and money I put into the car, a lot of it just for preventive maintenance and the big dollars on all the mod's, it makes me sick to my stomach. Wish I could have at least dropped the drivetrain with the front cradle and hung onto that before they took it away. Oh well, water under the bridge.
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Jack the R
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Jack the R

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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 14 EmptyFri Aug 09, 2019 3:32 pm

Rickw wrote:
Jack the R wrote:
You know, between replacing the tensioners and now this, I wonder if I haven't replaced all the pulleys I replaced a few thousand miles ago again.  

To hear that you've possibly replaced every pulley with a sealed bearing with so little mileage is just not right.

The new pulleys on the old tensioners are probably fine, it was the tensioners that went out.  The new tensioners came with new pulleys, I could replace them with the better pulleys I put on the old tensioners, but I'm going to get some use out of the pulleys the new tensioners came with first.  

My big complaint is that we should have been changing tensioners instead of the pulleys on the tensioners.  Bit of a waste of money and time there.
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Jack the R
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Jack the R

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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 14 EmptyFri Aug 09, 2019 8:50 pm

This is the pulley I need to replace, right? ACDELCO 1520679

edit - nope, that was not the right pulley. The right pulley is the 3.5" pulley.
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EyeDoc1
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Name : Christen
Location : Vancouver, WA
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Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 14 Empty
PostSubject: Belts only job, and do replace BOTH if one appears to be wearing out.   Write-Up: Replacing Belts and Pulleys - Page 14 EmptyTue Dec 03, 2019 11:44 am

OK, Thanksgiving 2019 is done.  It was belt (NOT TENSIONER) time yesterday.  Job took about 3 hours to do.  It was both difficult and easy at the same time.  Allow me to explain.

I spent so much time fixating on the black metal ferrule and removing the external TORX bolt that I forgot the first basic thing.  Again, let me start over.

Jack up the car to start observing the usual safety precautions (block a wheel, emergency brake engaged, car in "Park" etc):  I used ramps, then a floor jack to place the Riv on jack stands.  It gets me good room underneath to work.  Then I looked for the "Boss" for the floor jack to engage a scrap block of wood.  I looked over and found a spot beyond the oil pan, on the drivers side of the engine.  Not sure if that was the engine or the transaxle where the boss was located, but since the engine is east-west orientation, as is the oil pan, forget a jack point in the vicinity of the oil pan, on the passenger side of the car, look towards the flat spot by the transaxle, and I'm pretty sure I was on the transaxle.  Given this, and jockeying the floor jack around, I said "screw it" and hauled out my Harbor Freight engine hoist.  Threaded a chain on the two engine mounts, even left the plastic engine cover in place.  Couple of pumps and the engine was taut.

Plastic splash panel removed and bent out of place.  Got the 18 mm nut off (deep 3/8" drive socket) the bolt/TORX head pictured elsewhere, then unscrewed the external TORX long bolt (about 4.5").  NOTE:  The nut is on the TORX bolt, one (nut) over the other (TORX bolt).  Ferrule spun easily.  The ferrule, not coincidentally, appears to be about 4" long and after I removed it, appears to look like a James Bond pistol silencer (which is about the best analogy of what a "ferrule" on a Rivieria looks like).   Thick, heavy metal cylinder with a hole in the center.  I mean thick and heavy piece of metal.  But fuggedaboudit if you think you're gonna simply slip that bolt off and watch the ferrule (silencer) drop out.  It's true, the frame rail prevents you from easily removing that bolt, unless...and here where Mr Shade Tree part changer goofed up.

I forgot to remove the 15mm bolt that threads thru the upper motor mount (see paragraph 2 above the first basic thing.  If you don't remove that bolt, you ain't going anywhere.  When I finally figured that out, THAT'S HOW you can manipulate the motor (meaning move it around a bit) itself (finally understood what it meant to "horse" a motor around) to slide that motor mount bolt free (and you'll need a wrench on the other side of that 15mm nut).  The picture shows the bolt passing thru the motor mount.  Bolt head is on the right, nuts on the left (in the shadow), but no mistaking it once you get your wrench out.  I think I grabbed an 11/16" on the nut and it worked.  Pretty hard to screw that up.  The engine hoist was a godsend compared to the finicky floor jack.  Allowed for finer control if doing this one man.  If you're doing this as a two man job, it'd go much easier.  Anyway, once the bolt was removed, the engine can be lowered to remove the ferrule TORX bolt (as it then clears the frame rail), and the ferrule.  There is also an electrical connector, maybe a crank sensor by the ferrule that you should disconnect.  Easy peasy, disconnects 1-2-3.  Some banging and clanging to remove the ferrule, but it came free.  Bolt, ferrule, and sensor connector gone, and belts off.

Now the fun begins.  Installing the accessory belt first is always an interesting challenge as you have to figure out how the "thread pattern" of sliding one part of the belt over a tensioner in a narrow space between the frame rail and the front of the tensioner is accomplished.  It's hard to describe exactly HOW you'll manipulate the accessory belt and get it threaded correctly, since you have to account not only for the routing of the belt diagram, but getting the belt either over or under that ungodly large bracket where the ferrule is mounted.  Trust me, you'll figure it out.  I never recommend cutting a belt to remove it, as you never know when something goes wrong and you have to reassemble something (ask me how I know that in 50 years of wrenching) in case you actually have to use the car for something.  Anyway, I fully installed the accessory belt on the tensioner.  One down, one to go.

The supercharger belt was more challenging as it seemed almost impossible to thread it correctly, and when it's dark and cold, the frustration factor goes up.  Like "how the flip does this thing go on" wasn't exactly what I was saying, but since it came off, it obviously HAS to go on, and eventually I figured out how to route the belt properly.  Installed it on it's tensioner and then reversed the process.  

I had to play with the hoist in the "up" position to get the ferrule in place, accomplished with the handle end of a 3 lb hammer.  Once in place, I loosely placed a 2" bolt thru the mount into the ferrule so he ferrule wouldn't drop out when I lowered the engine to thread in the 4.5" TORX bolt.  Engine lowered, 2" loose bolt (you also could use a nail or anything just to hold that ferrule in place and keep it from falling out) removed, and 4.5" threaded TORX bolt installed and tightened.  I loosely placed the 18mm nut over the TORX stud.  Hook up the sensor.  Done.

Moving topside, used the hoist to raise the engine and alignment was PERFECT to slide the bolt into the motor mount.  Tightened the 15mm (about 5" long) bolt into the motor mount, holding the nut in place with an open end wrench and snugged it up.  Went underneath and tightened the nut on the ferrule with the 18 mm deep socket.  Installed the plastic shield with those push pin plastic holders, and started the car.  No squeaks or squeals noted.  Tire on, and off the ramps and patted myself on a job that could be as much as $400 bucks, or so I heard.

And now the "Service Engine Soon" light just came on.

Can't I catch a break with this car?
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