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Eldo
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing Spark Plugs (Series II SC)   Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:48 pm

I like my cover, though I think they modified it on the Series III to allow better airflow thru the alternator...

If you want to keep the cover and still access the plugs, what I did when I changed mine was:

- Disengage the passenger-side hood strut from the hood and lay it down in the fender channel.
(If your struts are any good, and it's not freezing outside, one should be enough
to hold the aluminum hood up - or you can use a broomstick...)
- Pull the screws and gently walk the heater-pipes out of the alt-bracket/belt-tensioner, so I could twist the hoses out of the way.
- Slide my left arm in to wrench on the plugs.
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Sweepspear
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing Spark Plugs (Series II SC)   Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:16 pm

I don't understand why so many of you find those rear plugs so difficult.
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97 park ave
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing Spark Plugs (Series II SC)   Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:39 pm

Sweepspear wrote:
I don't understand why so many of you find those rear plugs so difficult.
i know right? i still have the back bracket for the engine cover on and i still dont complain as much as i hear some other people. i just put a cushion on the intake manifold and go to town. i admit the rear take about twice as long as the front but the front only take 5-10 min tops.
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing Spark Plugs (Series II SC)   Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:42 am

97 park ave wrote:
i admit the rears take about twice as long as the front but the front only take 5-10 min tops.

Well, you're too young to remember what 'easy' plug changes were. You could climb under the hood of my Wildcat and change the plugs with a pipe-wrench! And yes, the fronts take all of 5 minutes... But if you can change the rears in 10 minutes you must be awfully skinny and flexible.
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing Spark Plugs (Series II SC)   Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:57 am

Eldo wrote:
I like my cover, though I think they modified it on the Series III to allow better airflow thru the alternator...

If you want to keep the cover and still access the plugs, what I did when I changed mine was:

- Disengage the passenger-side hood strut from the hood and lay it down in the fender channel.
(If your struts are any good, and it's not freezing outside, one should be enough
to hold the aluminum hood up - or you can use a broomstick...)
- Pull the screws and gently walk the heater-pipes out of the alt-bracket/belt-tensioner, so I could twist the hoses out of the way.
- Slide my left arm in to wrench on the plugs.

Eldo,
You have mentioned loosening the screws and rotating the heater brackets for better access before. I remember thinking then and now, are there not o-rings in there to be concerned about. On a car that hasn't had those touched or moved with high mileage, isn't there the chance of causing a leak, that could just add some misery to someones day.?
If someone has run the factory plugs to near there specified life of 100k miles and didn't move the nipples then and came back say 70k later to do a plug change and saw this recommendation and decided to do it, that would put those o-rings at a near ancient age, don't you think.
Now I know in my case having changed them and lubed them I would not worry about taking your advice, but isn't a disclamer in order for someone that may not realize what rotating or disturbing those o-rings could do.
Or am I wrong on this point.? I will stand corrected if I'm totally off base.
BTW, how the heck are you.?
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Eldo
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing Spark Plugs (Series II SC)   Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:14 am

Rick,

Funny, I actually mentioned in another thread today that I've had good luck with re-using those O-rings, but since they're easy to replace I didn't think about it in this thread... I took them out (gently...) at 70,000+miles and simply cleaned them and relubed them with pure anti-freeze. Replacing them is surely not a bad idea, so you're not off-base, but I wouldn't know what size they were until I had them out anyway.

As for how I am: you obviously didn't see the posts about my LF fender getting caved in by a Chevy pickup... sad
(I've learned that the General is very vicious about his 10-year-rule for clearing out the parts warehouses just when you need them!) wink
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97 park ave
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing Spark Plugs (Series II SC)   Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:09 am

Eldo wrote:
97 park ave wrote:
i admit the rears take about twice as long as the front but the front only take 5-10 min tops.
And yes, the fronts take all of 5 minutes... But if you can change the rears in 10 minutes you must be awfully skinny and flexible.
im not just skin and bones but im nowhere near fat. its really not that hard to reach down and twist 3 plugs out i actually think it might be a bit easier if i were a little bigger.
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Eldo
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing Spark Plugs (Series II SC)   Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:13 am

Wrong, son... I've spent my life in a garage, and it took all my learnin' to get my (beefy) left arm behind that damned motor!

I do miss my Eldorado with the 'normal' longitudinal engine... neutral
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97 park ave
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing Spark Plugs (Series II SC)   Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:23 am

i admit it takes some weasling with your arm, but i use my left arm (im right handed) and slide it in between the 2 rubber coolant hoses by the engine cover bracket and theres plenty of room. the flex head snap on wrench might help a bit too.
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing Spark Plugs (Series II SC)   Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:31 am

97 park ave wrote:
i admit it takes some weasling with your arm, but i use my left arm (im right handed) and slide it in between the 2 rubber coolant hoses by the engine cover bracket and theres plenty of room. the flex head snap on wrench might help a bit too.

Got all the wrenches (couldn't do it without it,) but I still had to remove the heater pipes and move the hoses to get back there... Hell, at least removing those pipes is a lot easier than removing the hoses from the pipes!


Last edited by Eldo on Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing Spark Plugs (Series II SC)   Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:56 am

You also have to consider that there is more room under the hood of the Park Ave than there is on the Riv.
I know there is more room between the firewall and the engine on the PA than the Riv, that makes a difference. I was also able to change plugs on the PA's from underneath while on a lift much easier, yet it is actually easier to change the plugs on Riv from over the fender, as much of a PITA as it may be.
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing Spark Plugs (Series II SC)   Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:12 am

Rickw wrote:
You also have to consider that there is more room under the hood of the Park Ave than there is on the Riv.
I know there is more room between the firewall and the engine on the PA than the Riv, that makes a difference....

Rick, you're a genius! I completely forgot that we were dealing with a "foreigner"... razz
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing Spark Plugs (Series II SC)   Thu Aug 19, 2010 6:32 am

Eldo wrote:
97 park ave wrote:
i admit the rears take about twice as long as the front but the front only take 5-10 min tops.

Well, you're too young to remember what 'easy' plug changes were. You could climb under the hood of my Wildcat and change the plugs with a pipe-wrench! And yes, the fronts take all of 5 minutes... But if you can change the rears in 10 minutes you must be awfully skinny and flexible.

I'm 49.
6'-1", 240lbs.
Maybe it's because I am Left handed I don't find them that bad.
I've changed worse.



Last edited by Sweepspear on Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing Spark Plugs (Series II SC)   Thu Aug 19, 2010 6:34 am

I don't have to disconnect anything or move heater hose brackets (which I too would recommend strongly against as it could make this project much much longer than it needs to be). Just reach bam there and change em. 10, 15 minutes tops.
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97 park ave
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing Spark Plugs (Series II SC)   Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:28 pm

Rickw wrote:
You also have to consider that there is more room under the hood of the Park Ave than there is on the Riv.
I know there is more room between the firewall and the engine on the PA than the Riv, that makes a difference. I was also able to change plugs on the PA's from underneath while on a lift much easier, yet it is actually easier to change the plugs on Riv from over the fender, as much of a PITA as it may be.
i wasnt aware that there was a space difference as the park ave, riv, and bonneville are all similar. if anything i thought you guys would have more room with the longer hood. ive changed the plugs from the bottom on a regal because of the lack of space but never a park ave/riv/bonne.

deekster_caddy wrote:
Just reach bam there and change em. 10, 15 minutes tops.

thumbsup thank you! at least im not the only one that can do it in 15 or less.
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing Spark Plugs (Series II SC)   Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:36 pm

Rickw wrote:
Eldo,
You have mentioned loosening the screws and rotating the heater brackets for better access before. I remember thinking then and now, are there not o-rings in there to be concerned about. On a car that hasn't had those touched or moved with high mileage, isn't there the chance of causing a leak, that could just add some misery to someones day.?
If someone has run the factory plugs to near there specified life of 100k miles and didn't move the nipples then and came back say 70k later to do a plug change and saw this recommendation and decided to do it, that would put those o-rings at a near ancient age, don't you think.
Now I know in my case having changed them and lubed them I would not worry about taking your advice, but isn't a disclamer in order for someone that may not realize what rotating or disturbing those o-rings could do.
Or am I wrong on this point.? I will stand corrected if I'm totally off base.
BTW, how the heck are you.?

Are these O rings readily available at any parts store, or is it a dealer item?
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing Spark Plugs (Series II SC)   Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:54 pm

Quote :
i wasnt aware that there was a space difference as the park ave, riv, and bonneville are all similar. if anything i thought you guys would have more room with the longer hood. ive changed the plugs from the bottom on a regal because of the lack of space but never a park ave/riv/bonne.
Not only is there a difference between PA & Riv, there is a pretty big difference between '95 Riv and '96-up Rivs. There is also a difference if you have removed engine cover and hoist brackets, have headers, etc.

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PostSubject: Re: Replacing Spark Plugs (Series II SC)   Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:05 pm

Eldo wrote:
97 park ave wrote:
i admit the rears take about twice as long as the front but the front only take 5-10 min tops.

Well, you're too young to remember what 'easy' plug changes were. You could climb under the hood of my Wildcat and change the plugs with a pipe-wrench! And yes, the fronts take all of 5 minutes... But if you can change the rears in 10 minutes you must be awfully skinny and flexible.

agree

The biggest issues I had with the Riv is the extra crap stuck to the firewall and I couldn't rock the motor forward like I can in a w-body. It's not entirely difficult, just annoying to be feeling that wonderful arthritis kick in when you are contorting your hands in odd positions. That extra inch or two makes plugs a breeze in the Regal. I can do them in less than 10 mins. Now that I removed the hoist bracket back there, I'm guessing the change will be much quicker.


Last edited by DEMonte1997 on Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Eldo
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing Spark Plugs (Series II SC)   Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:40 pm

BMD wrote:

Are these O rings readily available at any parts store, or is it a dealer item?

The dealer (if he's very good with his computer) may be able to find out exactly what size they are
before the car is taken apart, but as far as I know they are "plain-old" O-rings...
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing Spark Plugs (Series II SC)   Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:06 pm

Well, with all the discussion about changing plugs, I thought I would take some pics of my replacement to provide a visual to all that is being said. I’ve always done my own plugs on my other cars but I never tried it on the Riv, because of the rear plugs. but thanks to all the tips and info here I decided to give it a shot.
I used the the recommended plugs and and wires from the dealer, $160 all together.


I don’t see how anyone can have any issue with the front three, these literally took less than ten minutes.

As recommended by many members here on the site, you need to remove the passenger side strut to get at the rear plugs, by removing this spring loaded clip from the top of the strut, then lay it down along the fender, and support the hood with something, I used a broom stick.




Then I removed the engine hoist bracket off, it is held on with a 13mm bolt and a 13mm nut…


You can see how much room that creates to get your left arm in there.

Now I have a sort of stocky build shall we say, so thats how far I could get my left arm between the heater hose pipes and alternator bracket. It’s a good idea to turn the hose clamps away to keep from knicking your arm, but that alternator bolt kept wedging into my arm anyway shout . From here I was able to do plugs 2 and 4 easily. I could do plug 6 from here aswell if I squinched my arm a little further in…
but I decided to remove the bracket that holds down the engine cover, with it out of the way, I was able to wrench plug six from above with ease. It is held on with two 13mm nuts.



Each of the rear plugs have a spring loaded heat shield that must be re-used.


As recommended on this site, have the wires ready to go because this is what happened when I twisted and pulled on the plug boot for 4…


A couple of terminals on the coil pack had significant corrosion, I lightly sanded them, but I think I might be getting new ones.

I lined up each plug to inspect afterwards, they all seem to have the same amount of corrosion, grime and erosion.


Anyway, I know none of this is news to most of you, but I enjoy contributing when I can and maybe this will help out some new members.
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing Spark Plugs (Series II SC)   Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:20 pm

^doesnt look like any less room then my park ave...
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing Spark Plugs (Series II SC)   Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:26 pm

I don't know what physical characteristics you have Tyler, but it is much easier for me to get my hand back there on my dads ParkAve than on my Riv.


Last edited by BMD on Sun Aug 22, 2010 8:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing Spark Plugs (Series II SC)   Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:01 am

Good write-up Mr. Division... wink

Don't forget to let us know how the throttle response and mileage improve after replacing those plugs and cleaning those hideous coil terminals.
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing Spark Plugs (Series II SC)   Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:05 am

Eldo wrote:
Good write-up Mr. Division... wink

Don't forget to let us know how the throttle response and mileage improve after replacing those plugs and cleaning those hideous coil terminals.

Thanks Mark. The car has always had great throttle response, so it wasn't that noticeable, but new coils should make a significant difference. The slight rough idle that I've noticed in drive, has so far not re-appeared though. To be honest I haven't really kept track of the gas mileage before to make an accurate comparison, suffice it to say that it should improve!
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing Spark Plugs (Series II SC)   Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:07 am

Nice job BMD. Them wires and plugs were nasty, and I'm surprised to hear that the rusted coils weren't causing more of an issue.
I apologize in advance, but I'm going to add something to your process.....

--- Use the silicone grease on the spark plug boots (comes with wire set). This will keep the boots from seizing themselves onto the plug and ripping the wire out next time around.

--- This is not mandatory, but using a little bit of Anti Seize on the plug threads is a good practice. This helps keep the threads clean and free of corrosion. Also aids in removal (the next time).

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