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 Vibration / Shimmy at Cruising Speed

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stan
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PostSubject: Re: Vibration / Shimmy at Cruising Speed   Wed Mar 23, 2016 8:39 pm

Afraid not......
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llamalor2112
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PostSubject: Re: Vibration / Shimmy at Cruising Speed   Thu Mar 24, 2016 6:36 am

My old tires were much too old and mildly lumped so I got new ones thinking it'd help my issue along with balance/alignment etc but the issue never left. 65-70 is downright rough. Worse when coasting at that speed than with the power applied. Always been that way (our lesabre and reatta behave similarly but not nearly as severe)

recently though the riv has been getting progressively worse. Shakes much much worse. What's worse, after driving even just around town at 35 my tires feel warm on the outer edges and are wearing on those edges wayyyy prematurely. New development. Beyond that I've begun to hear the clunk release sound from my front left when straightening out from a right hand turn (inner tie rod?)

My suspension feels solid, not remotely soft or floaty, very competent compared to our other 'yachts' and the car tracks dead straight BUT between the shimmy and the steering now beginning to feel jerky/bumpy in the steering wheel, it's obvious things need to be gone through. Being as I have no clue on the age of any of the suspension/steering components prior to my ownership and having put over 50k on it myself since owning, I'll probably just clean house and install all-new everything. No risk, all reward. Hopefully.
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PostSubject: Re: Vibration / Shimmy at Cruising Speed   Thu Mar 24, 2016 11:39 am

llamalor2112 wrote:
My old tires were much too old and mildly lumped so I got new ones thinking it'd help my issue along with balance/alignment etc but the issue never left. 65-70 is downright rough. Worse when coasting at that speed than with the power applied. Always been that way (our lesabre and reatta behave similarly but not nearly as severe)

recently though the riv has been getting progressively worse. Shakes much much worse. What's worse, after driving even just around town at 35 my tires feel warm on the outer edges and are wearing on those edges wayyyy prematurely. New development. Beyond that I've begun to hear the clunk release sound from my front left when straightening out from a right hand turn (inner tie rod?)

My suspension feels solid, not remotely soft or floaty, very competent compared to our other 'yachts' and the car tracks dead straight BUT between the shimmy and the steering now beginning to feel jerky/bumpy in the steering wheel, it's obvious things need to be gone through. Being as I have no clue on the age of any of the suspension/steering components prior to my ownership and having put over 50k on it myself since owning, I'll probably just clean house and install all-new everything. No risk, all reward. Hopefully.

The car can be made to track straight with worn suspension by (a) shimming in enough caster (rare) (b) too much toe-in (measure your front tire wear with a gauge the tread will be less on the outside) (c) something else

The clunk on straightening from a turn could be the sway bar if the bushings in the brackets are worn enough.

The shimmy would be fixed by road force balancing the wheels AND replacing the front control arms (don't get crap arms).

Check your struts for bulging and oil seepage.

Albertj
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llamalor2112
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PostSubject: Re: Vibration / Shimmy at Cruising Speed   Sat Mar 26, 2016 4:46 pm

I can definitely confirm toe-in. What where basically new tires are now well-worn on the outer edges. Worse than my old tires even. Another $500 down the drain.

Almost positive the sway bushings are shot as they're almost definitely factory. As for struts, they look fine, but, I'd rather just change em out along with the arms, rods, links, bushings all at once I think.
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PostSubject: Re: Vibration / Shimmy at Cruising Speed   Sat Mar 26, 2016 9:37 pm

llamalor2112 wrote:
I can definitely confirm toe-in. What where basically new tires are now well-worn on the outer edges. Worse than my old tires even. Another $500 down the drain.  

Almost positive the sway bushings are shot as they're almost definitely factory. As for struts, they look fine, but, I'd rather just change em out along with the arms, rods, links, bushings all at once I think.

Yeah I hate it when mechanics dial in too much toe instead of fixing the bushings. But it gets your car off their rack and it gets them paid. I had a similar problem and nobody would tell me what it was, but I replaced my front control arms as maintenance at about 200K miles and wham the problem went away. I now have remaining a minor issue that I think is related to (evenly) sagging springs (I am at 320K miles on the original springs).
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PostSubject: Re: Vibration / Shimmy at Cruising Speed   Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:59 pm

Crazy! I feel like my springs are probably fine in reality. Maybe I'll do myself a favor and avoid changing out my towers for now and just focus on the sway, control, and tie rods as I know they could use a change at their age.
Do the bushings come preinstalled or will I need to press new ones myself I wonder
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llamalor2112
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PostSubject: Re: Vibration / Shimmy at Cruising Speed   Mon Mar 28, 2016 4:44 pm

Although upon researching parts I guess it's a fruitless idea as new parts are not available for my 95...again. I guess I don't need new arms? I mean changing bushings should be fine, the control arms themselves are steel and should still be fine no?


Last edited by llamalor2112 on Mon Mar 28, 2016 4:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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stan
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PostSubject: Re: Vibration / Shimmy at Cruising Speed   Mon Mar 28, 2016 4:47 pm

Mine does it only between 65-70 so......drive 73 and up haha...or below 65 mph.
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llamalor2112
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PostSubject: Re: Vibration / Shimmy at Cruising Speed   Mon Mar 28, 2016 4:52 pm

Originally so did mine but nowadays its more like 60-80 and 35-45 confused
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stan
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PostSubject: Re: Vibration / Shimmy at Cruising Speed   Mon Mar 28, 2016 5:26 pm

Damn......brother.
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PostSubject: Re: Vibration / Shimmy at Cruising Speed   Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:20 am

llamalor2112 wrote:
Although upon researching parts I guess it's a fruitless idea as new parts are not available for my 95...again. I guess I don't need new arms? I mean changing bushings should be fine, the control arms themselves are steel and should still be fine no?

The bushings are available from rockauto.com among other places. When GM switched to the aluminum arms, the bushings became unavailable separately.
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PostSubject: Re: Vibration / Shimmy at Cruising Speed   Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:19 am

Hmm I just bought a 96 Riv that has this same vibration at 70-80 mph. This is the 70th car I have owned in my life. Cars of this vintage and design I have owned are 4 98-99 Aurora Autobahns, 1 1996 Cadillac DeVille and 1 2001 Cadillac Eldorado ETC. All other cars between the modle years 1950 and 1994 are conventional RWD cars.

None of these others cars had a hint of vibration! And here I see almost all of the Rivs talked about here have the vibration around 70 mph. And people talk about the same solutions and so few of them seem to work. I do not think there are that many tires in the world that are defective! I have yet to encounter a defective tire in my life.

I see some of you have done just about every suggestion. Tie rods, ball joints, wheel bearings, control arm bushings, struts, springs, rebalancing tires, new tires, new wheels, motor/transmission mounts etc. And still the problem persists. Maybe these Rivs have a defective design?

I have had cars with almost shot front ends that do not vibrate like this Riv does.
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PostSubject: Re: Vibration / Shimmy at Cruising Speed   Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:31 am

skatterbrane wrote:
Hmm I just bought a 96 Riv that has this same vibration at 70-80 mph. This is the 70th car I have owned in my life.  Cars of this vintage and design I have owned are 4 98-99 Aurora Autobahns, 1 1996 Cadillac DeVille and 1 2001 Cadillac Eldorado ETC.  All other cars between the modle years 1950 and 1994 are conventional RWD cars.

None of these others cars had a hint of vibration!  And here I see almost all of the Rivs talked about here have the vibration around 70 mph.  And people talk about the same solutions and so few of them seem to work.  I do not think there are that many tires in the world that are defective!  I have yet to encounter a defective tire in my life.

I see some of you have done just about every suggestion. Tie rods, ball joints, wheel bearings, control arm bushings, struts, springs, rebalancing tires, new tires, new wheels, motor/transmission mounts etc. And still the problem persists.   Maybe these Rivs have a defective design?  

I have had cars with almost shot front ends that do not vibrate like this Riv does.

IIRC the Riv has a funky suspension harmonic at moderate highway speeds. You have to tweak until you get rid of it but once gone it drives like a dream. Worn suspension bushings are one problem that will allow the vibration at highway speeds. Minor tire imbalance will do it as well. See if you can have the tires balanced by a shop that does work for state highway patrol cars, Cadillacs or Lincolns (used to tighter specs). The adjustments need to be dead nuts on, not just in "allowable" zone.

BTW it's not just the Riv -- see http://buickforums.com/forums/threads/5882-Does-your-2006-Buick-Lucerne-s-suspension-vibrate-between-50-70.

Albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Vibration / Shimmy at Cruising Speed   Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:24 pm

Thanks, it has aftermarket wheels which I am getting rid of. I have the stock ones. The shocks and struts are in dire need of replacement, so that is where I will start. If that does not make a difference, I am going to buy loaded new front lower control arms. My car has less than 50K miles and is a garaged AZ car all its life.
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PostSubject: Re: Vibration / Shimmy at Cruising Speed   Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:13 am

My Riv had a vibration before I replaced the control arms. Nothing at any speed now. My control arms did have 180k miles driven on Buffalo roads though and the busings had rotted away to the point that it was metal on metal.
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PostSubject: Re: Vibration / Shimmy at Cruising Speed   Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:48 am

th3fr4nchi5e wrote:
My Riv had a vibration before I replaced the control arms. Nothing at any speed now. My control arms did have 180k miles driven on Buffalo roads though and the busings had rotted away to the point that it was metal on metal.


I admit that I did everything I could to fix the FE vibration until replacing the control arms.  There is something I don't quite get about how that thing is set up. That said, replacing the control arms worked for me.

Albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Vibration / Shimmy at Cruising Speed   Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:50 pm

Well, it turns out that new shock and struts completely eliminated all vibrations for me.
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PostSubject: Re: Vibration / Shimmy at Cruising Speed   Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:42 am

skatterbrane wrote:
Well, it turns out that new shock and struts completely eliminated all vibrations for me.

Great!

Keep in the back of your mind that the control arm bushings are a place to look if the struts are good/recent

Albert
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PostSubject: Re: Vibration / Shimmy at Cruising Speed   Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:59 pm

Will do, thank you. It seems that if ANYTHING isn't tip-top shape, then the 65-75 mph vibration is the symptom. So, the cure is to make sure EVERYTHING is in tip-top shape as it pertains to the suspension.
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PostSubject: Re: Vibration / Shimmy at Cruising Speed   Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:03 pm

skatterbrane wrote:
Will do, thank you.  It seems that if ANYTHING isn't tip-top shape, then the 65-75 mph vibration is the symptom.   So, the cure is to make sure EVERYTHING is in tip-top shape as it pertains to the suspension.

Not a surprise, really. The Riv suspension rides nice but is not remarkable and seems to have specific geometry and mutually dependent tolerances.

It would be instructive to compare it to the suspension on, say, the Lincoln Continental coupe or sedan of that era.

Albert
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PostSubject: Re: Vibration / Shimmy at Cruising Speed   Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:44 am

To be honest the Aurora is a better car all around.
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PostSubject: Re: Vibration / Shimmy at Cruising Speed   Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:30 pm

skatterbrane wrote:
To be honest the Aurora is a better car all around.

There are some things the Aurora is better at...

http://aurorah.proboards.com/

And some not, like breaking 100 at the trap in the 1/4...

http://rivperformance.editboard.com/t6-official-0-60-mph-1-4-mile-riviera-ets-list?highlight=1+4+mile

Just kidding. An Aurora with mods is pretty quick. 3gears
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