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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: Headlight and Interior light Issues   Headlight and Interior light Issues - Page 2 EmptyTue Oct 05, 2010 12:11 am

So, I misunderstood your confused writing style.

You don't have to shove this Headlight and Interior light Issues - Page 2 Read down mine throat or wave it in my face Mr..... Headlight and Interior light Issues - Page 2 Bgrthefi

I do know wiring and electrical pretty darn well....I just didn't jump into this problem with the book open, I left that up to you guys this time. tongue
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Abaddon
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PostSubject: Re: Headlight and Interior light Issues   Headlight and Interior light Issues - Page 2 EmptyTue Oct 05, 2010 12:14 am

Eldo clarified it for you, but I typed all this in, and I wasn't going to delete it mad (message posted while typing thingy)

The circuit with the resistor is only a series circuit, using the low beams as DRL's. Both Low beams have a chassis ground.

The "other" circuit uses the High Beams, whereas both legs of the circuit are LCM controlled, and share a ground on the left High Beam. The right High beam ground is the DRL wire to the LCM. It's wired as such that the High Beam DRL control on the LCM applies 12V to the circuit, travels through both High Beams, and grounds through the left bulb. This is the series part.....2 bulbs + 12V = 6v on each bulb (dim).

When the High Beams are needed on full, The LCM turns off the 12V from the DRL circuit, and applies it to the High beam circuit, which is parallel. Now the DRL circuit acts as a ground, which is what makes the High beam circuit parallel when 12V is applied....a ground for the left beam and a ground for the right beam.
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: Headlight and Interior light Issues   Headlight and Interior light Issues - Page 2 EmptyTue Oct 05, 2010 12:28 am

Yes, A simple misunderstanding. I was already quite familiar with how the US system was wired, I just misunderstood what was said regarding the Canadian wiring.
I did understand when you, Abaddon, said the Canadian system had a series wired resistor in the Low Beam circuit from the LCM. That made sense. Then the Engineer confused me or I confused myself as I didn't read the writing correctly.
Sorry for interjecting into this highly technical topic. Headlight and Interior light Issues - Page 2 Help
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Abaddon
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PostSubject: Re: Headlight and Interior light Issues   Headlight and Interior light Issues - Page 2 EmptyTue Oct 05, 2010 12:35 am

Eh, maybe I just needed to write it all down to make sure that I understood it Headlight and Interior light Issues - Page 2 Popcorn Headlight and Interior light Issues - Page 2 Icon_win
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Headlight and Interior light Issues   Headlight and Interior light Issues - Page 2 EmptyTue Oct 05, 2010 12:04 pm

Abaddon wrote:
Not as far as I can tell....only the resistor shows as a Canada only part. It doesn't even make sense (by looking at the schematic) as to what it's for. That circuit goes from the LCM to the Dimmer Switch, and then to the Low beams (DRL's).
The only way it would make sense, is if Canada had (or has) some sort of law regarding how bright the DRL's are. That circuit powers the Lo beams. I would assume it's also turned on and off by the LCM given the conditions are correct via the Ambient Light Sensor, and that resistor would dim the lights.....

By appearance it's a bit confusing, but after studying the schematic that's what makes sense to me. Headlight and Interior light Issues - Page 2 Smoke

Yeah that makes sense, I dimly recall something about DRLs being low beams in Canada because the 1/2 bright high beams as DRLs under certin conditions still dazzle/annoy other drivers, so their DRLs were lo beams (which have a different light pattern. You still have conspicuity, just not the apparent potential for retinal pain.

Albertj
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Headlight and Interior light Issues   Headlight and Interior light Issues - Page 2 EmptyTue Oct 05, 2010 12:12 pm

Albertj wrote:
I dimly recall...
Ha-ha-ha. lmfao

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Headlight and Interior light Issues   Headlight and Interior light Issues - Page 2 EmptyTue Oct 05, 2010 3:18 pm

AA wrote:
Albertj wrote:
I dimly recall...
Ha-ha-ha. lmfao

banana
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Eldo
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PostSubject: Re: Headlight and Interior light Issues   Headlight and Interior light Issues - Page 2 EmptyTue Oct 05, 2010 3:38 pm

laughat Good catch, Aaron!


I just looked at Wiki, and at first the Canadian govt didn't allow the half-power high-beams, but they later modified the law...

What's hilarious is how right Rod was about it being unusual that Canada out-regulated the U.S. DOT.
In Canada it was the goverment that wanted the DRL's, and in the U.S it was the govt that fought them!

"General Motors, interested in reducing the build variations of cars for the North American market, began lobbying the DOT to permit DRL's in the United States shortly after Canada required them. A prolonged regulatory battle was fought, with the DOT objecting on grounds of potential safety drawbacks and glare issues. Eventually, however, these objections were set aside and DRL's of the same types allowed in Canada (save for fog lamp DRL's) were legalized but not mandated effective with the 1995 model year."

Ironically, it was also the manufacturers who wanted the hi-beam series/parallel circuit to prolong bulb life and avoid warranty work for dead bulbs, yet years later GM started producing those pickup trucks with the dedicated DRL bulbs - you know, the type where one dies about the time that you get back from the test drive? lol

Also, notice that part about "not mandated"? I started realizing a few years ago that there were new vehicles coming out with DRL's, but not all. How unusual for the DOT to allow something for safety, but not mandate it...
scratch
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Abaddon
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PostSubject: Re: Headlight and Interior light Issues   Headlight and Interior light Issues - Page 2 EmptyTue Oct 05, 2010 3:53 pm

LOL legalized, but not mandated. That's stupid. That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. That's just saying that if the manufacturer feels the need to put in DRL's, have at it. But, if not, who cares.....

The insurance companies care when it comes to "safety" features regarding your premiums. headbutt
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: Headlight and Interior light Issues   Headlight and Interior light Issues - Page 2 EmptyTue Oct 05, 2010 5:20 pm

It is a decade old argument that is over with now as far as I can tell.
Don't all cars and light trucks have DRL's now.???
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BMD
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PostSubject: Re: Headlight and Interior light Issues   Headlight and Interior light Issues - Page 2 EmptySun Oct 10, 2010 9:23 pm

from: http://rivperformance.editboard.com/series-ii-engine-transmission-f4/write-up-lower-intake-manifold-gaskets-t2283-150.htm

Man, I just went out to the car to run an errand, my dash and perimeter lights are all out. I changed a few fuses, but no luck with the lights??? pale


Last edited by BMD on Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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98riv
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PostSubject: Re: Headlight and Interior light Issues   Headlight and Interior light Issues - Page 2 EmptySun Oct 10, 2010 9:42 pm

Have you double checked your electrical connections? Check the alternator and any other wires that you may have moved. Also make sure you have the spark plug wires hooked back up correctly. Maybe try to remove the ground on the battery and let it reset itself. Pretty much go through everything again. Follow the same process that you used to remove the old gasket and see if you left something unhooked or if you knocked something loose. Check your grounds to while your at it.

_________________
1998 Supercharged Riviera - Custom CAI, Alpine spx-13ref, Infinity 6x9's, Alpine 4 Channel Amp, Kicker KX3, Silverstars, STB, Hawk Brake Pads, Monroe Air Shocks, KYB GR2
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: Headlight and Interior light Issues   Headlight and Interior light Issues - Page 2 EmptySun Oct 10, 2010 9:53 pm

All good points 98Riv.

I remember when my alternator failed and stopped putting out any juice it didn't take the battery that long do drop to a level that caused all the same symptoms he is explaining. When the battery voltage dropped below a certain level, don't know what that was, it caused various controllers to drop offline, such as the lighting control and Transmission was doing a bunch of weird shit, wouldn't shift correctly, surged and stuttered. Fuel control seemed to be a problem also. Luckily by the time all the warning lights in the dash came on and started flashing at me and the car was limping along, I was within sight of my driveway.
I immediately put a charger on the battery to get it back up, I think it read about 6 or 7 volts by then, and charged it back to 12.5 over the course of a few hours. Started the charge at 6 volts and then dropped to 2 volts for the remainder. Haven't had a battery or charging system issue since replacing that alternator.
Moral of the story is: If you find your battery voltage lower than 10 volts, I would not try to charge the battery using the alternator, use a charger first and save the alternator.

So, definitely make sure your Alternator connector was put back in correctly.

And check your battery voltage and see what it is.

If all that is Good, then I agree with disconnecting the battery completely and give the PCM some time to settle down and then re-boot the system.


Last edited by Rickw on Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:09 pm; edited 3 times in total
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BMD
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PostSubject: Re: Headlight and Interior light Issues   Headlight and Interior light Issues - Page 2 EmptySun Oct 10, 2010 10:22 pm

Great advice guys, I will do that first thing in the morning!
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BMD
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PostSubject: Re: Headlight and Interior light Issues   Headlight and Interior light Issues - Page 2 EmptyMon Oct 11, 2010 2:57 pm

I'm stumped, the alternator connections are secure, the battery voltage is good, checked all the connections under the hood, checked all fuses ( except under hood *forgot those* ), and of all things, the surging seems to have stopped for now, but my cluster and perimeter lights still won't come on. What I don't get is that I started the car up on Friday after completing the LIM gasket repair, lights came on and have worked fine until Sunday night when they never came back on. Could the Twilight Sentinel Photo Cell have taken a crap at the same time as doing the LIM gasket or is that too big a coincidance? dunno

Just read this thread ... http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f53/dash-lights-not-turning-96-riviera-80223/
and it looks like the problem was the Lamp Control Module. Where is that exactly?
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97 park ave
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PostSubject: Re: Headlight and Interior light Issues   Headlight and Interior light Issues - Page 2 EmptyMon Oct 11, 2010 4:13 pm

check any grounds you touched. that would make perfect sense if your lights worked right after but after driving a bit a ground got shook loose and started acting up. check anything you touched/moved/unplugged/etc. and then check it again. definitely start in the area you were just messing with before moving on to something else.
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Eldo
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PostSubject: Re: Headlight and Interior light Issues   Headlight and Interior light Issues - Page 2 EmptyMon Oct 11, 2010 5:42 pm

BMD wrote:
Just read this thread ... http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f53/dash-lights-not-turning-96-riviera-80223/

I love the entry that said, "sounds like an electrical problem somewhere in the lighting controls"... clap
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Headlight and Interior light Issues   Headlight and Interior light Issues - Page 2 EmptyMon Oct 11, 2010 5:47 pm

Yeah, I know. A special thanks to Captain Obvious! dunce

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
BMD
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PostSubject: Re: Headlight and Interior light Issues   Headlight and Interior light Issues - Page 2 EmptyMon Oct 11, 2010 5:55 pm

Had the car running while moving wires around and checked any grounds I saw. What grounds could I be missing? The last thing I did before this happened was turn the car off, then I walked away from it. Before I turned her off everything was working fine. Something must have happend when I went to start her up on Sunday night.


Last edited by BMD on Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Eldo
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PostSubject: Re: Headlight and Interior light Issues   Headlight and Interior light Issues - Page 2 EmptyMon Oct 11, 2010 5:55 pm

BTW, which module is which?
I've got a screwed-up section in the eFSM, and as far as I remember from my paper books (now packed away), the starter-enable relay, the BCM and the LCM are all down around the E-brake.

(On the plus side, I just found a section I've never seen, detailing how certain interior circuits and switches can be tested with Diagnostic Modes in the BCM and RFA...)
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L67
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PostSubject: Re: Headlight and Interior light Issues   Headlight and Interior light Issues - Page 2 EmptyMon Oct 11, 2010 6:30 pm

BMD wrote:
Had the car running while moving wires around and checked any grounds I saw. What grounds could I be missing? The last thing I did before this happened was turn the car off, then I walked away from it. Before I turned her off everything was working fine. Something must have happend when I went to start her up on Sunday night. But I would still like to know where the LCM is located.

Under the driver's side kick panel next to the BCM (which looks similar)...it's a bitch to get out. I don't have my FSM here at school but someone might be able to provide a picture of it. I recall it being mounted vertically.
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BMD
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PostSubject: Re: Headlight and Interior light Issues   Headlight and Interior light Issues - Page 2 EmptyMon Oct 11, 2010 6:37 pm

Thanks Matt, been searching on the site and finally found this...

Headlight and Interior light Issues - Page 2 LCM[/quote]
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L67
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PostSubject: Re: Headlight and Interior light Issues   Headlight and Interior light Issues - Page 2 EmptyMon Oct 11, 2010 6:38 pm

BMD wrote:
Thanks Matt, been searching on the site and finally found this...

Headlight and Interior light Issues - Page 2 LCM

Ah i just got that picture myself and was about to post it. The hardest part is removing it from the bracket it sits in, especially with the awkward position you have to lay in to see it. Good luck!
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Eldo
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PostSubject: Re: Headlight and Interior light Issues   Headlight and Interior light Issues - Page 2 EmptyMon Oct 11, 2010 6:40 pm

Is the E-brake in the way?
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L67
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PostSubject: Re: Headlight and Interior light Issues   Headlight and Interior light Issues - Page 2 EmptyMon Oct 11, 2010 6:42 pm

Eldo wrote:
Is the E-brake in the way?

No smile
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