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 Hello All! 99 Silver Arrow interest..

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99SilverArrow
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PostSubject: Hello All! 99 Silver Arrow interest..   Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:55 pm

Hello,

Obviously I'm new to the website, but I am blown away by the amount of dedication by the posters!

But, directly to the point...
I have found a 99 Silver Arrow with 79000 miles on it. The nice couple was asking for $4200. The interior is immaculate, with all of the bells and whistles. Engine and tranny are good, with new breaks. Now to the bad..

There is a substantial oil leak, which I was quoted at $300-400 to fix.
The fuel and brake lines are corroded and need to be replaced. The mechanic said they could go at any time. I was quoted at a lovely price of $1500+ including labor, for those.
The rear air shocks are bad. Quoted at $240 with labor.
The driver's side mirror apparently needs to be replaced, as half of it is black below the arrows. Perhaps I just don't know how to work the heated mirrors.
There is small denting and a long scratch on the passenger door.
The rear bumper is peeling paint, as well as the drivers side door handle. Additionally, there is a splotchy area next to it.
All in all, they have me at 2800+ for work and labor. Jeez.

All of this sad news was given to me a half hour ago. I offered the owner $2000. Waiting to hear a reply but, it's my thinking that they might go to another buyer.

By no means am I a mechanic. So I was wondering from some of you enthusiasts that: If the work that was quoted a reasonable price? Is $2000 a fair offer? Any further advice for a first time car buyer that thinks the Riv is too cool of a car to pass up?
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Abaddon
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PostSubject: Re: Hello All! 99 Silver Arrow interest..   Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:13 pm

First off, Welcome to the Site! hi

Now for the car.....IMO....

It's a Silver Arrow of which only 200 were made. It's one of the last 200 Rivieras made in 1999, the last of 200 EVER, and is badged as such. That being said, it's really a collector car. If it were me, I'd buy it. Only 79k on it? That car, with that mileage, fixed back to good condition, is worth $7000 or better to the right person. $4200 is a good price for that car with the mileage. The difference between you and I though, is that I'd fix everything myself at only the cost of parts and some time.

It's possible the Brake lines are rusted in a way that the mechanic wants you to replace them. My brake lines are rusted to hell too. But, that's what brake lines do. Over time they "swell up", as the rust builds up. This doesn't necessarily mean they are bad. If you take a piece of rough sandpaper to one of the lines, and are able to make the line shiny again, they are fine. Usually, when brake lines go, they will start seeping fluid slowly before they go BOOM. If they aren't leaking now, I wouldn't worry about it.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Hello All! 99 Silver Arrow interest..   Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:16 pm

Welcome!

I feel $2000 is way low, mainly because it's a Silver Arrow, of which only a couple hundred were produced. It's also a relatively low mileage car, and the problems you describe are easily fixable using write-ups from our site. I think the owner's price is reasonable, and $4000 would be a fair offer.

Considering the needed fixes, $3000 would be the lowest price I could see letting the car go, if it were mine. But I do hope you get this car. If you do, perhaps you can do some of the repair work yourself, even if you aren't a mechanic - very few of us are!

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
99SilverArrow
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PostSubject: Re: Hello All! 99 Silver Arrow interest..   Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:06 pm

Abaddon wrote:
First off, Welcome to the Site! hi

Now for the car.....IMO....

It's a Silver Arrow of which only 200 were made. It's one of the last 200 Rivieras made in 1999, the last of 200 EVER, and is badged as such. That being said, it's really a collector car. If it were me, I'd buy it. Only 79k on it? That car, with that mileage, fixed back to good condition, is worth $7000 or better to the right person. $4200 is a good price for that car with the mileage. The difference between you and I though, is that I'd fix everything myself at only the cost of parts and some time.

It's possible the Brake lines are rusted in a way that the mechanic wants you to replace them. My brake lines are rusted to hell too. But, that's what brake lines do. Over time they "swell up", as the rust builds up. This doesn't necessarily mean they are bad. If you take a piece of rough sandpaper to one of the lines, and are able to make the line shiny again, they are fine. Usually, when brake lines go, they will start seeping fluid slowly before they go BOOM. If they aren't leaking now, I wouldn't worry about it.

Thanks for the reply. What about the fuel lines?
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Abaddon
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PostSubject: Re: Hello All! 99 Silver Arrow interest..   Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:30 pm

They all rust. If they aren't leaking, don't fix 'em. They will usually last a long time (untouched) before they go. As I said, mine look terrible, but I'm not fixin 'em until they leak. Half the fuel lines look brand new, and the other half look horrid. Now, if they were "wet" in certain areas, then yes, I'd be replacing them REAL SOON (this includes the brake lines). Unless the mechanic you took the car to saw wet spots, he's trying to create work for himself IMO. But, I really can't make that judgement, as I can't see the lines.....

Here's an example....
I had to replace rear wheel cylinders on a '95 Taurus last week. I had to quote the customer high in case the brake lines broke. They looked god awful, like they would crumble if I touched 'em. I sprayed them with PB Blaster every 20 minutes or so until the parts arrived. I was absolutely shocked that they were solid under all that rust. Ugly and rusty doesn't necessarily mean replace wink

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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Hello All! 99 Silver Arrow interest..   Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:46 pm

99SilverArrow wrote:
Hello,

Obviously I'm new to the website, but I am blown away by the amount of dedication by the posters!

But, directly to the point...
I have found a 99 Silver Arrow with 79000 miles on it. The nice couple was asking for $4200. The interior is immaculate, with all of the bells and whistles. Engine and tranny are good, with new breaks. Now to the bad..

There is a substantial oil leak, which I was quoted at $300-400 to fix.
The fuel and brake lines are corroded and need to be replaced. The mechanic said they could go at any time. I was quoted at a lovely price of $1500+ including labor, for those.
The rear air shocks are bad. Quoted at $240 with labor.
The driver's side mirror apparently needs to be replaced, as half of it is black below the arrows. Perhaps I just don't know how to work the heated mirrors.
There is small denting and a long scratch on the passenger door.
The rear bumper is peeling paint, as well as the drivers side door handle. Additionally, there is a splotchy area next to it.
All in all, they have me at 2800+ for work and labor. Jeez.

All of this sad news was given to me a half hour ago. I offered the owner $2000. Waiting to hear a reply but, it's my thinking that they might go to another buyer.

By no means am I a mechanic. So I was wondering from some of you enthusiasts that: If the work that was quoted a reasonable price? Is $2000 a fair offer? Any further advice for a first time car buyer that thinks the Riv is too cool of a car to pass up?

can't comment on the oil leak without seeing it, however chances are it's the oil pan gasket. Some folks jack the car up by the engine with a block under the pan while changing the serpentine belts, which always crushes the gasket and starts a leak. Even if you have to replace the pan you can replace the pan and gasket yourself for around $120. Yes it is a DIY job, although a bit time consuming.

Rear air shocks. This is probably the money for nothing repair in your list. You can replace them in your driveway, with hand tools, and if you like laying on the ground frankly you don't even have to jack the car up. A pair of Monroe MA-822 shocks will cost you $70 or so the pair. You should consider buying the Delco replacements from Rockauto.com with the top mounts attached, if they have them. Should be around $120 the pair although I have not looked in some time. Changes are your top mounts are OK, you can easily check by looking at them, they are under little rubber covers at the tops of the rear wheel wells. They look like little rubber crowns. Just look or feel for cracks in the rubber. No cracks and you're OK.

The bodywork, unless you're doing it yourself, will run whatever you were quoted I suppose.

What Abaddon said about the brake and fuel lines is spot on correct.

All that said, you need to think hard about whether you want a "collector" car as a daily driver.

Albertj
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99SilverArrow
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PostSubject: Re: Hello All! 99 Silver Arrow interest..   Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:11 pm

Abaddon wrote:
They all rust. If they aren't leaking, don't fix 'em. They will usually last a long time (untouched) before they go. As I said, mine look terrible, but I'm not fixin 'em until they leak. Half the fuel lines look brand new, and the other half look horrid. Now, if they were "wet" in certain areas, then yes, I'd be replacing them REAL SOON (this includes the brake lines). Unless the mechanic you took the car to saw wet spots, he's trying to create work for himself IMO. But, I really can't make that judgement, as I can't see the lines.....

Here's an example....
I had to replace rear wheel cylinders on a '95 Taurus last week. I had to quote the customer high in case the brake lines broke. They looked god awful, like they would crumble if I touched 'em. I sprayed them with PB Blaster every 20 minutes or so until the parts arrived. I was absolutely shocked that they were solid under all that rust. Ugly and rusty doesn't necessarily mean replace wink


The mechanic mentioned nothing about the lines being wet, but then again, I didn't quite know what to ask, in terms of the quality of the lines. All he said, was that they were rotten, noting that they could last six months to a year. Also, I forgot to mention that there is a wheel bearing issue that causes whirring at 40mph, quoted at 250+.
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99SilverArrow
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PostSubject: Re: Hello All! 99 Silver Arrow interest..   Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:13 pm

albertj wrote:


All that said, you need to think hard about whether you want a "collector" car as a daily driver.

Albertj

You're right, although I don't expect to log more than 12,000 miles a year on the car.
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99SilverArrow
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PostSubject: Re: Hello All! 99 Silver Arrow interest..   Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:20 pm

AA wrote:
Welcome!

I feel $2000 is way low, mainly because it's a Silver Arrow, of which only a couple hundred were produced. It's also a relatively low mileage car, and the problems you describe are easily fixable using write-ups from our site. I think the owner's price is reasonable, and $4000 would be a fair offer.

Considering the needed fixes, $3000 would be the lowest price I could see letting the car go, if it were mine. But I do hope you get this car. If you do, perhaps you can do some of the repair work yourself, even if you aren't a mechanic - very few of us are!

The owner has come back with a $3000 firm offer.
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jonly
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PostSubject: Re: Hello All! 99 Silver Arrow interest..   Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:22 pm

in my opinion - if you're not a mechanic pass on the car.
unless you're hoping to become a mechanic, since these are pretty easy to work on.
welcome to the site, though!
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99SilverArrow
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PostSubject: Re: Hello All! 99 Silver Arrow interest..   Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:42 pm

Btw, thanks for all of the advice!
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moldymac
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PostSubject: Re: Hello All! 99 Silver Arrow interest..   Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:18 pm

I think I know the one you are talking about, I have been eying it myself on craigslist. When you looked at it, was it an actual silver arrow? I saw on the pics they posted of it that there was no silver arrow badge on the dash. If it is one and you can do the work yourself, it would be well worth the $3000 IMO.
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Hello All! 99 Silver Arrow interest..   Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:27 pm

99SilverArrow wrote:
Abaddon wrote:
They all rust. If they aren't leaking, don't fix 'em. They will usually last a long time (untouched) before they go. As I said, mine look terrible, but I'm not fixin 'em until they leak. Half the fuel lines look brand new, and the other half look horrid. Now, if they were "wet" in certain areas, then yes, I'd be replacing them REAL SOON (this includes the brake lines). Unless the mechanic you took the car to saw wet spots, he's trying to create work for himself IMO. But, I really can't make that judgement, as I can't see the lines.....

Here's an example....
I had to replace rear wheel cylinders on a '95 Taurus last week. I had to quote the customer high in case the brake lines broke. They looked god awful, like they would crumble if I touched 'em. I sprayed them with PB Blaster every 20 minutes or so until the parts arrived. I was absolutely shocked that they were solid under all that rust. Ugly and rusty doesn't necessarily mean replace wink


The mechanic mentioned nothing about the lines being wet, but then again, I didn't quite know what to ask, in terms of the quality of the lines. All he said, was that they were rotten, noting that they could last six months to a year. Also, I forgot to mention that there is a wheel bearing issue that causes whirring at 40mph, quoted at 250+.

this is another job you can DIY - a top quality Timken wheel bearing will cost you around $100. Either the bearing that is on the car now was an 'economy' replacement (they go *fast*) or it's the first to go of the originals. 77K is a little early but not unheard of. My originals died from the ABS sensors failing, and the economy replacements I put on at first died after a drive on the QEW. I replaced with Timkens.

I guess this boils down to do you want the car.

My impression from rereading your posts is you're looking at this as a financial question and not planning to do much if any of the work yourself.

Albertj

PS: There were some late 98s produced with the 99 Silver Arrow color scheme, IIRC.
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stan
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PostSubject: Re: Hello All! 99 Silver Arrow interest..   Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:51 pm

what number is it?-do you have any info?-who knows ,some of us may know something about it.
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99SilverArrow
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PostSubject: Re: Hello All! 99 Silver Arrow interest..   Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:13 am

Just an update. I bought the car, so I'm psyched. Thank you all for the advice.

Those of you mechanically inclined, is there a 99 manual, or Riv manual I could use to help me through the DIY projects such as the bearing and the shocks?
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moldymac
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PostSubject: Re: Hello All! 99 Silver Arrow interest..   Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:16 am

Congrats! We do require pics btw happy
I got my service manual off ebay dirt cheap, best place to get them. Also check out the write up section at the top of the page for info on how to do some common repairs and mods.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Hello All! 99 Silver Arrow interest..   Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:55 am

Quote :
Those of you mechanically inclined, is there a 99 manual, or Riv manual I could use to help me through the DIY projects such as the bearing and the shocks?
For starters, here are some write-ups:

Hub/Bearing:
http://rivperformance.editboard.com/brakes-suspension-f6/write-up-spindle-wheel-bearing-hub-replacement-t1569.htm#31484

Rear Shocks:
http://rivperformance.editboard.com/brakes-suspension-f6/write-up-rear-self-leveling-air-shocks-t1223-15.htm#15036

Front Struts:
http://rivperformance.editboard.com/brakes-suspension-f6/write-up-installing-kyb-gr-2-struts-t54.htm

Sorry about that last link, pictures were lost, but the written steps may still be helpful.

And CONGRATS on the new ride! I hope the site helps you in fixing the car. Looking forward to seeing you around the forums!

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
jonly
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PostSubject: Re: Hello All! 99 Silver Arrow interest..   Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:52 pm

congrats on the purchase!
I always used this site as my manual...
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robotennis61
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PostSubject: Re: Hello All! 99 Silver Arrow interest..   Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:24 pm

nice buy! so now..get to work!
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