HomeDashboardFAQSearchRiviera Questions & AnswersWrite-Ups IndexRegisterRelated LinksMemberlistLog in
Share | 
 

 She just died on me...

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
TheReub
Rookie


Name : RL
Joined : 2011-01-04
Post Count : 13
Merit : 0

PostSubject: She just died on me...   Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:06 pm

Here's what happened:

A few weeks ago my 96 started missing hard at 45-50mph, right near that shift into overdrive. Then she started missing when I got on the gas from 65-80mph. I had to make a 1200 mile trip at a moments notice and I did. So, the other day I go to the store, and when I started her back up, she was didn't want to run and stalled out on me a couple of times.

The first thing I did was change the plugs and wires (all coil packs, the MAF sensor, and the IAC have been changed from an earlier problem). After that service, she started up and idled very rough and stalled out. Now she turns over but will not start/run.

I was thinking the crankshaft sensor had gone bad since my mechanic said he had to "fix" the wires awhile back (a pulley seized and took out my belts). I talked to him today and he said check the ignition module before I go through the trouble with the crankshaft sensor.

My question is what problems should I look for with this module and is it something I can fix myself.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions/solutions.
Back to top Go down
LARRY70GS
Aficionado
avatar

Name : Larry
Age : 61
Location : Oakland Gardens, NY
Joined : 2007-01-23
Post Count : 1510
Merit : 105

PostSubject: Re: She just died on me...   Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:24 pm

Is the engine getting fuel? Can you check fuel pressure?

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
Back to top Go down
albertj
Guru
avatar

Name :
Location : Finger Lakes of New York State
Joined : 2007-05-31
Post Count : 6743
Merit : 123

PostSubject: Re: She just died on me...   Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:56 pm

Do you have a scanner (or at least a code reader). You don't say if your check engine light is on or not; here is what we (that would be you) are looking for:

- scanner will tell you if sensors are sending data and what they are saying, probably including fuel pressure, some transmission internal data and some other stuff
- code reader will let you pull stored codes, and scanners that take logs will let you drive and take a log then go back and read what happened, this pinpoints problems quickly

As far as the ignition module goes it was in harms way when you fragged that belt and pulley so you are looking for cut wires (including the ground wire under the module). Also it is a high energy system so if you indeed had a coil fail it might have taken the module with it.

If you are having all this drama and *no* codes I'd kinda wonder about the crank sensor. It is behind the harmonic balancer. A scanner would tell you if you are getting signal/no signal from it. Crank sensors usually fail "bad warm" they will let you start the car but once the engine is hot enough their internal connections will open up and they quit sending data back to the ECU. You could see this pretty easy with a data logging scanner if you turn the ignition to ON, let the scanner engage, and then try to start car.

Other comments?

Albertj


-
Back to top Go down
TheReub
Rookie


Name : RL
Joined : 2011-01-04
Post Count : 13
Merit : 0

PostSubject: Re: She just died on me...   Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:43 pm

@Larry - I took one of the caps off on the fuel rail and it's spraying gas, also I could smell gas when it was running all rough and what not.

@Albert - I meant to edit the first message to put the codes in, but it slipped my mind. The last time I had the codes read, it said P0171 (bank 1 running lean) and the latest code was P0300 (multiple misfires). One thing I did notice was that the check engine light was flashing when she was limping back to the house, then it stayed solid.

I doubt if I can get someone with a scanner to come over but I'll give it a shot, and I'll see if I can borrow somebody's code reader, to see if any new codes have come up.

Now that I think about it, when I had the SC oil changed at the dealer, they did say that I had 2 bad coils so I changed them all...I didn't think about that module at the time, which may be why that P0171 kept popping up every now and again.


Last edited by TheReub on Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:43 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : p0201 was actually p0171)
Back to top Go down
LARRY70GS
Aficionado
avatar

Name : Larry
Age : 61
Location : Oakland Gardens, NY
Joined : 2007-01-23
Post Count : 1510
Merit : 105

PostSubject: Re: She just died on me...   Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:55 pm

TheReub wrote:
@Larry - I took one of the caps off on the fuel rail and it's spraying gas, also I could smell gas when it was running all rough and what not.

@Albert - I meant to edit the first message to put the codes in, but it slipped my mind. The last time I had the codes read it said P0201(?) (bank 1 running lean) and the latest code was P0300 (multiple misfires). One thing I did notice was that the check engine light was flashing when she was limping back to the house, then it stayed solid.

I doubt if I can get someone with a scanner to come over but I'll give it a shot, and I'll see if I can borrow somebody's code reader, to see if any new codes have come up.

Now that I think about it, when I had the SC oil changed at the dealer, they did say that I had 2 bad coils so I changed them all...I didn't think about that module at the time, which may be why that P0201 kept popping up every now and again.

The SES blinking means you are potentially damaging the catalytic converter. If raw fuel passes through the converter, it overheats it to the point that it collapses internally. This will plug up your exhaust to further complicate matters. Do not operate the car if you smell fuel and the SES light is blinking. Misfires will send raw gas into the converter. Sounds like your problem is ignition related.

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
Back to top Go down
TheReub
Rookie


Name : RL
Joined : 2011-01-04
Post Count : 13
Merit : 0

PostSubject: Re: She just died on me...   Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:14 pm

@Larry - I didn't run it very long (less than 1/2 mile) with the light blinking. When I changed the plugs, I noticed 2 of them weren't firing much if at all, and one of them was intermittently firing. It wouldn't surprise me if some raw fuel made it to the cat.

I reckon I'll try to find a mirror and inspect those wires around the ignition before I go to pulling things off and spending money.
Back to top Go down
TheReub
Rookie


Name : RL
Joined : 2011-01-04
Post Count : 13
Merit : 0

PostSubject: Re: She just died on me...   Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:10 pm

I finally got the crankshaft position sensor changed. And nothing...she cranks a bit smoother but won't run. Any other ideas?
Back to top Go down
flyineagle96
Junkie
avatar

Name : James E
Age : 48
Location : Dalton,Mass
Joined : 2009-12-21
Post Count : 914
Merit : 24

PostSubject: Re: She just died on me...   Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:55 pm

Change the ecm,get one out of the j.y.$50.00
Back to top Go down
Jason
Aficionado
avatar

Name : Jason
Age : 34
Location : Comox, BC, Canada
Joined : 2007-01-23
Post Count : 1378
Merit : 64

PostSubject: Re: She just died on me...   Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:01 pm

flyineagle96 wrote:
Change the ecm,get one out of the j.y.$50.00
pcm failures are very uncommon.

Unplug the MAF and it see if the problem goes away. If so, odds are it's the MAF. You didn't say where your new one was from but the pep boys/autozone remans are prone to failure. Also, your symptoms sound like a vacuum leak so you might want to check ALL your vac hoses before trying a new MAF. If someone from the forum is local, you can try a known good maf.
Back to top Go down
http://www.cardomain.com/id/Doctor_Meltdown
TheReub
Rookie


Name : RL
Joined : 2011-01-04
Post Count : 13
Merit : 0

PostSubject: Re: She just died on me...   Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:35 pm

@ Jason I get all my replacement parts from NAPA...unless the windshield wipers need changing. I'll be sure to try that MAF in the morning. Thanks for the tip.
Back to top Go down
Jason
Aficionado
avatar

Name : Jason
Age : 34
Location : Comox, BC, Canada
Joined : 2007-01-23
Post Count : 1378
Merit : 64

PostSubject: Re: She just died on me...   Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:47 pm

ok, unless you bought a new delco unit, suspect the maf anyways. The list of stores was non-exhaustive. I've seen several reman delco mafs from parts stores fail right out of the box.
Back to top Go down
http://www.cardomain.com/id/Doctor_Meltdown
TheReub
Rookie


Name : RL
Joined : 2011-01-04
Post Count : 13
Merit : 0

PostSubject: Re: She just died on me...   Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:57 pm

Oh yes it's a delco, that's the only thing I put on my GMs. I'll check it anyways though.
Back to top Go down
TheReub
Rookie


Name : RL
Joined : 2011-01-04
Post Count : 13
Merit : 0

PostSubject: Re: She just died on me...   Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:03 pm

Just ran out and tried it...no change.
Back to top Go down
Jason
Aficionado
avatar

Name : Jason
Age : 34
Location : Comox, BC, Canada
Joined : 2007-01-23
Post Count : 1378
Merit : 64

PostSubject: Re: She just died on me...   Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:20 pm

Than you can rule out the maf. Start checking for vacuum leaks (all hoses and connections) and ensure that the plug wires were put on in the correct order. If you messed around the MAF/TB area, a torn or damaged TB gasket could be causing a vac leak.

Does the 96 have an idle relearn procedure ? (it may not, I think they did away with that with OBD2) ? On 97+ the pcm resets the IAC whenever the ignition switch is turned on, then off. So they recommend to
-turn the ignition switch on, then off
-turn the ignition switch off.
start the engine and allow it to reach operating temperature.
(additionally, it has been recommended to do this in Park with the A/C off. Then turn the A/C ON. Next turn the AC off, place the transmission lever in OD and turn the AC on. How much this last part actually helps, I'm not certain)

good luck


Last edited by Jason on Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
http://www.cardomain.com/id/Doctor_Meltdown
TheReub
Rookie


Name : RL
Joined : 2011-01-04
Post Count : 13
Merit : 0

PostSubject: Re: She just died on me...   Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:30 pm

I've check those plug wires 4 times already...then again a 5th won't hurt anything. My vacuum connections do look bad, there's a lot of splitting at the connectors. I guess I'll go buy some hose (maybe some hoes too, LoL) and connectors and whatnot.
Back to top Go down
albertj
Guru
avatar

Name :
Location : Finger Lakes of New York State
Joined : 2007-05-31
Post Count : 6743
Merit : 123

PostSubject: Re: She just died on me...   Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:26 pm

Did you ever swap out that ignition module?

If you want to swap it on the cheap consider a JY module, people usually don't junk their cars over a bum ICM.
Back to top Go down
TheReub
Rookie


Name : RL
Joined : 2011-01-04
Post Count : 13
Merit : 0

PostSubject: Re: She just died on me...   Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:45 pm

No I haven't. Planning on testing it tomorrow. Luckily, the pull-a-part closest to me has the same Rivi that I do & whoever got something off of it last, only took parts from the passenger compartment.
Back to top Go down
flyineagle96
Junkie
avatar

Name : James E
Age : 48
Location : Dalton,Mass
Joined : 2009-12-21
Post Count : 914
Merit : 24

PostSubject: Re: She just died on me...   Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:47 pm

Most likely your problem, $50.00 j.y. Already said, this a few times,my money would be on this again................ bonk
Back to top Go down
TheReub
Rookie


Name : RL
Joined : 2011-01-04
Post Count : 13
Merit : 0

PostSubject: Re: She just died on me...   Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:28 pm

I'll give it a shot after I go through the cheaper possibilities.
Back to top Go down
TheReub
Rookie


Name : RL
Joined : 2011-01-04
Post Count : 13
Merit : 0

PostSubject: Re: She just died on me...   Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:46 pm

Turns out it was the ICM all along. Baby's runnin' good now! So I'm going to get on the interstate so we can get reacquainted.
Back to top Go down
 
She just died on me...
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Tarasova's husband has died
» Bike died, lights out, no power
» For all the American Troops that died in the chopper crash today...
» Indy trail runner died last Saturday at Eagle Creek
» Jerry Collins has died in a car crash

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Riviera Performance ::   Supercharged 3800 Tech :: Series II Engine & Transmission-
Jump to: