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 FWI installed

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RhinoFLA
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PostSubject: FWI installed   Sun Apr 29, 2007 7:56 pm

Feeling ambitious today, I picked up everything for a 4 inch FWI.. my friend sean and I got it installed and everything in around 3 hours.. it was alot of fitting and re adjusting, but I must say it's well worth the money and the work.. I used a 9 inch
K & N filter, I just took my horn out, made it much easier. I'm insanely happy with the results, I love being able to hear the sc whine like that, and the sound of the sc sucking in air when getting on it from a stand still.. but let's not forget that blow off valve sound when I let off the gas in 1st or 2nd.. just need to touch up the spots we scratched installing the 90 bend

thanks to jason for the detailed write up





3gears
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: FWI installed   Sun Apr 29, 2007 8:12 pm

Congrats. thumbsup I'm really happy to see people trying this mod. There is almost no way you can keep out of WOT with one of these installed. The sound is just too awesome!!!

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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Mr.Riviera
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PostSubject: Re: FWI installed   Sun Apr 29, 2007 8:21 pm

how much did the parts cost you? i need to find someone to buy my k&N pannel filter frown then use that money for the cone. too bad there isn't a paper cone that will work for the time being...i looked and found one for like a ram truck that was close but the plastic end wouldnt fit in the rubber or pvc opening.

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1996 with 244k miles, L324" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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Jack the R
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PostSubject: Re: FWI installed   Sun Apr 29, 2007 9:54 pm

Anyone got thoughts on the plastic material vs. metal?
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RhinoFLA
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PostSubject: Re: FWI installed   Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:38 pm

Mr. Riv, I spent about 35-40 bucks on all of the pvc, then 52 on a 9 inch filter.. it ended up costing more then I planned. I'm sure you could find a cone filter alot cheaper on ebay
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: FWI installed   Sun Apr 29, 2007 11:03 pm

quote: "Anyone got thoughts on the plastic material vs. metal?"

This is a good question. In general, the difference is mainly aesthetic, imo. Air is going to flow through a plastic tube the same as a metal one. Heat transfer will be different, though. Plastics are better insulators, followed by stainless steel, which is a rather poor conductor for a metal. Aluminum conducts heat quickly and evenly, so if the tube us hotter at one end, it will be hot at the other. That's the main reason I chose SS for mine.

There is also the mounting dilemma with plastic. You can't rigidly secure it to the car like you can a metal one with brace that bolts to the frame. Steel will be stiffer, acting much like an extra engine mount. I could feel increased engine vibration through the wheel and floor after installing mine. I'm guessing plastic wouldn't do this as much. Also, you could get a slightly different sound from metals, due to their harsher resonances.

One thing no one has brought up is the type of plastic to use. Many use PVC, but if it were me, I'd be using ABS. The reason is simply that PVC melts in boiling water, and softens at an even lower temp, whereas ABS has a slightly higher melt point. I realize a FWI should never reach 212F, but I just wouldn't feel comfortable knowing that pipe could get soft on hot days. Probably not to the point of failure, but still... someone should research this further.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


Last edited by on Sun Apr 29, 2007 11:17 pm; edited 2 times in total
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RhinoFLA
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PostSubject: Re: FWI installed   Sun Apr 29, 2007 11:09 pm

I actually thought about that heat dilemma, you know, living in FL and all.. I thought about using ridgid pvc, mainly used in the electrical field which requires them to have a higher temp. rating, but 4 inch ridgid pvc would be pretty expensive to run, but I figured this would do just fine
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Mr.Riviera
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PostSubject: Re: FWI installed   Sun Apr 29, 2007 11:13 pm

i think the metal vs plastic question was in reguards to how much heat each would soak and radiate. i would guess a thin gauge steel intake would act as an oven for the air charge, where as aluminum or thick pvc would insulate better, but i could be wrong. im sure they make CAI tubes out of certain materials for a reason. arn't most of them aluminum? (lighter and doesnt conduct heat right?)

how much heat can the rubber reducer handle? that would get the hottest. if the intake tube is 215+ then your engine is on FIRE and melting pcv is the least of your worries.flame

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1996 with 244k miles, L324" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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Mr.Riviera
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PostSubject: Re: FWI installed   Sun Apr 29, 2007 11:14 pm

you could always wrap the tube in refletix or reflex or however the hell you spell it.

_________________
1996 with 244k miles, L324" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: FWI installed   Sun Apr 29, 2007 11:36 pm

quote: "i would guess a thin gauge steel intake would act as an oven for the air charge, where as aluminum or thick pvc would insulate better, but i could be wrong."

Again, plastics insulate better than metals, but in the case of metals, aluminum is a superior heat conductor over stainless steel. That means aluminum is a poor insulator. Whatever the temp of the throttle body, an aluminum tube will be the near same down at the filter in a very short period of time. This is why you often find heat sinks and radiators made of aluminum (consistent heat transfer).

But a stainless steel tube can be hot near the TB, yet cooler midway down the pipe, because stainless better insulates. The thermal conductivity of stainless is 16, vs. aluminum's 250. This is why you see stainless steel handles on stove top pans. Btw, PVC's thermal conductivity is only .2!!!

Mass produced intake tubes are mostly made of aluminum because it's lightweight, corrosion resistant, and has better workability than most other metals. In other words, it's cheaper to build with acceptable results. There are at least a few companies (IceMan and K&N) that use plastic tubes for better results.

As for the flexible coupler, if it's made of silicon, it's not only a good insulator, but it will stand up to the heat far better than most plastics. Silicone is stable to the 400-500F range, often higher.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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Jack the R
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PostSubject: Re: FWI installed   Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:49 pm

Part of the reason why I'm asking is, that black plastic looks surprisingly stock. The shiny metal pipe looks good too, but there's something to be said for mods that blend in.

As far as I'm concerned, the lack of increased NVH is a good thing. Sometimes the gutted airbox gets a little loud and white-trash-mobile sounding - I don't want any more of that.

Does ABS come in black?
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: FWI installed   Mon Apr 30, 2007 6:04 pm

Stock? Really? Modular sewer pipe looks very home brew, imo. But I can see your point about the black. If you like black, just paint it like Ryan did. A painted metal intake should look even more stock because it's all one piece, like a manufactured part would be.

If you don't like NVH, don't do a FWI. It's about twice as noisy as a gutted box.

PVC comes mostly in white, sometimes grey, ABS is available in black.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
RhinoFLA
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PostSubject: Re: FWI installed   Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:22 pm

if you're going to paint it, pick up a can of Krylon fusion.. it's pretty amazing stuff.. sticks right to plastic, no sanding or anything. and yeah jack, be prepared to hear the intake sucking while sitting at an idle, it's pretty noisy at a stand still, but other then that, it's well worth it IMO
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1998 Riv
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PostSubject: Re: FWI installed   Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:44 pm

AA wrote:
Congrats. thumbsup I'm really happy to see people trying this mod. There is almost no way you can keep out of WOT with one of these installed. The sound is just too awesome!!!


Keep up with these comments, and I'll have to make a FWI my NEXT mod... I SO wish I could spend an afternoon or 2 on my mods list. burnout
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Jason
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PostSubject: Re: FWI installed   Tue May 01, 2007 9:11 am

Very nice. I'm sure you'll agree it makes a noticeable difference.
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SpaceBar
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PostSubject: Re: FWI installed   Tue May 01, 2007 9:29 am

1998 Riv wrote:
AA wrote:
Congrats. thumbsup I'm really happy to see people trying this mod. There is almost no way you can keep out of WOT with one of these installed. The sound is just too awesome!!!


Keep up with these comments, and I'll have to make a FWI my NEXT mod... I SO wish I could spend an afternoon or 2 on my mods list. burnout


I love mine. Just put it in last week and its been awesome you can feel the difference.
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Jack the R
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PostSubject: Re: FWI installed   Tue May 01, 2007 2:12 pm

AA wrote:
Stock? Really? Modular sewer pipe looks very home brew, imo. But I can see your point about the black. If you like black, just paint it like Ryan did.

It would look awful in white. I've had my doubts about the homemade fwi because I was picturing the white plastic, but RhinoFLA's fwi is much better looking than what I was imagining.

AA wrote:

If you don't like NVH, don't do a FWI. It's about twice as noisy as a gutted box.

Taking into account how I use the car, most of these mods sadly don't make any sense for me. Not that I don't want to do them anyway dunno
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RhinoFLA
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PostSubject: Re: FWI installed   Tue May 01, 2007 3:45 pm

I don't think the white really looks that bad.. i'm just expecting to see a toilet on the other end of the pipe j/k jason, don't shank me razz nahh, I just wanted it to match, I wouldn't have minded having it white

Quote :
Taking into account how I use the car, most of these mods sadly don't make any sense for me. Not that I don't want to do them anyway dunno

not only does the car get on it more, but you benefit from smoother idles and decreased fuel consumption. but if you're worried about appearance, then i'd go with a metal fwi
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PostSubject: Re: FWI installed   Tue May 01, 2007 10:31 pm

RhinoFLA wrote:
I don't think the white really looks that bad.. i'm just expecting to see a toilet on the other end of the pipe

OMG, I literally blew coke across my desk. That is hilarious!
That's why I painted mine black. It doesn't look bad at all. It's just knowing I have sewer pipe under my hood, I feel a little redneck. I planned to use the PCV as a model and then replace it with real automotive duct work. But I don't know if the look would be that different for the $150 I'm going to have to spend to replace it. The pipe was embossed "4" sewer pipe". It bothered me so much I sanded it off and repainted it. If I can get it outta my head that it's sewer pipe, it's one of the top three favs that I've done to the car.smile
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PostSubject: Re: FWI installed   Wed May 02, 2007 12:03 am

Rhino thats a fantastic write up. I lengthed my "warm air intake" to extend in to the fender well today. Removing the horn on the drivers side made life so much easier. I kinda mangled the area where the airbox used to be...and then I realized Im using a 3" intake instead of the 4" in the write up so i squeezed the pipe through the hole.

Now about your insulating roof flashing. How exactly does that work and would it be possible to use a piece of lexan instead to close up the holes?
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: FWI installed   Wed May 02, 2007 9:06 am

quote: "OMG, I literally blew coke across my desk. That is hilarious!"

That is hilarious!!! lmfao

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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RhinoFLA
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PostSubject: Re: FWI installed   Wed May 02, 2007 3:52 pm

hmm, i'm not familliar with lexan.. What I did was I bought a peice of aluminum roof flashing 3" to 4" which is in the building supplies along with shingles and what not in your local hardware store. In the center of the aluminum is a circular rubber fitting that has a 3 inch diamater. I took that off of the aluminum, and cut off the first ring of it to expand it to 4 inches, then slid it around the pipe I had running through the original fender well hole, it seals up nicely. Basically i'm sure anything that is heat resistant and can form an air tight ring would do just fine
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PostSubject: Re: FWI installed   Wed May 02, 2007 5:12 pm

I did mine a little different. I made the opening just large enough for the filter (7" K&N cone) to fit down the hole. Once I slid the filter (and pipe) through the opening, I used 3/8 fuel hose slit long ways to wrap around the edge of the opening. It helps to seal the area and also protects against chaffing. It makes it very easy to get to the filter. It's not air tight from the engine compartment, but I wouldn't think much if any air from the engine area is being pulled down there. With the rubber hose around the opening, you cannot pull the filter out.

I also had to seal my joints because it would slide apart at times. I'm going to work on a bracket to attach to the frame somehow. JB weld to the PVC and bolt it or something, not sure yet.

hmmm...I also see another sewer word I need to sand off. Guess I'll buy more paint.rolleyes



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PostSubject: Re: FWI installed   Wed May 02, 2007 5:50 pm

^ Your coolant level is low. wink
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jax95riv
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PostSubject: Re: FWI installed   Wed May 02, 2007 5:59 pm

Yep. I'm going to pull the container off and clean it out before I fill it. Thanks though. Good eye. smile
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