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 My new 470 BBB

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LARRY70GS
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PostSubject: My new 470 BBB   Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:16 am

When I first bought my GS455 Stage1 back in October of 1999, it had a rebuilt (.030 over 455) with stock iron heads and intake manifold. With headers, and a mild cam, the heavy car (4200lbs) went a best of 13.22 @ 101 MPH. Wanting to improve the performance of the car, I purchased a set of TA Performance aluminum Stage1 Street Eliminator heads, and had Greg Gessler port them to his level2 package. www.gesslerheadporting.com My iron headed motor had about 9.4:1 compression, and Greg milled .040 off the heads so that my compression with the aluminum heads would be a full number higher, 10.4:1 (59cc chambers). The new heads flowed 313CFM intake, and 225 CFM exhaust at .550 lift. Bought a set of roller rockers. With the addition of the heads alone, and an Edelbrock Performer aluminum intake, my car went mid 12's at 107 MPH. I then added a TA Performance SP1 single plane intake along with an AED 1000 HO carburetor (Double pumper like a Holley HP carb). The car went a best of 12.11 @ 111.98 MPH. Along the way, I replaced the rear with a more durable 8.5 10 bolt with Moser and Eaton parts and 3.73's. I also added No Hop bars and an HR Parts and Stuff rear sway bar for Drag Racing. The car ran consistent mid to low 12's at 110 MPH + depending on the conditions.

What I really wanted was a mid 11 second car that I could drive anywhere without worry. I had also added a Gear Vendors Overdrive unit to my Switch Pitch 400 Transmission. It brought the 3.73's down to 2.91 for better highway manners. The one part of my combination that I had not changed was the camshaft. The KB118 cam that I was using, was meant for an iron headed motor. It had a lot more exhaust duration to crutch the poorer flowing iron head, and a wider lobe center that made a lot of vacuum, but had lower top end power. With my new aluminum heads, this cam was a mismatch to the rest of my combination. I needed a better cam to take advantage of my vastly better heads, and better flowing intake and carburetor. The problem I faced was my pistons (forged Speed Pro) did not have valve reliefs. Because my heads were milled, and I only had .035 deck height, I would be limited in duration and lift numbers if I wanted to avoid piston to valve interference. I had 2 choices. I could pull my current short block apart, and have my pistons notched, or I could build another short block with the right pistons from the get go. I decided on option 2.

About the same time, TA Performance announced that they were going to look into marketing a new hydraulic roller cam meant for street car engines. The lift and duration numbers would be moderate for a roller. No crazy spring pressures or lifter valley reinforcements would be required. This sounded exactly like what I needed. The only downside was the cost, about 1000.00 for the roller lifters, cam, grind, and bumper. Cost wasn't an issue for me, so I called TA Performance. Due to typical marketing and production delays, it took about a year to get my hands on one of these cam packages. I had a roller cam ground to 234*/247* on a 113 lobe center with .584 lift. I contacted Jim Weise of Trishield Performance to build me a short block for my roller cam.
www.trishieldperformance.com

Jim has developed a 470 cubic inch short block package for big block Buick engines. It uses custom Diamond Forged Racing pistons, and the Big Block Chevy Eagle H beam rods. Offset grinding of the crank produces a slight stroke increase (3.90 stock to 3.95) Combined with a .375 over bore to 4.350, you get 470 CID. I also decided to send Jim my aluminum heads, SP-1intake, carburetor, a spare distributor, and water pump. Jim disassembled my heads and had them ported some more. He port matched my intake and did some work in the plenum. He assembled everything and dyno'd the engine. I had given Jim permission to test 3 different cams(the last being the roller) in my completed engine. I did this in the interest of providing more information for guys who were planning an engine like mine, and to see what this new roller cam deal was worth. The waiting and the cost was well worth it. On the dynamometer, my engine produced a best pull of 608 HP, and 595 ft. lbs of torque. This engine should easily put my car into the 11's. It might even get me kicked off the track for no roll bar.

Here are the relevant threads on www.V8Buick. You'll have to join (free) to see the pictures. There will be more information, pictures, and video to come in the next week or so.

http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=221289

http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=220945

http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=219958 (start at post #8)




_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU


Last edited by LARRY70GS on Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Jason
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PostSubject: Re: My new 470 BBB   Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:26 am

awesome
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Abaddon
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PostSubject: Re: My new 470 BBB   Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:51 pm

LARRY70GS wrote:
This engine should easily put my car into the 11's. It might even get me kicked off the track for no roll bar.

And that, my friend, would send you home with a giant grin and a boner.
Sounds awesome man.
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flyineagle96
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PostSubject: Re: My new 470 BBB   Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:06 pm

[quote="Abaddon"GRIN and a BONER?]
Nice to have play money, "sweet motor"....... clap No,No,on the BONER thing!!! : :
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PostSubject: Re: My new 470 BBB   Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:45 pm

Son of a bitch! Not only do you have one of the fastest stock cars of all time(my fav and a Buick) you have managed to build it up to one bad ass mo fo! Kudos to you my friend for building one ultra badass Buick making all of us green with envy! Just another prop to you that's my favorite Buick ever made along with the GNX.
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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: My new 470 BBB   Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:22 pm

Awesome! Sounds like a very nice setup. Do you race at E-town?


We built something similar years ago, but running the iron heads and a flat cam. I'm sure you know the car, bobc455 on V8Buick. And instead of the 3.73s we are running a 2.56 rear. Block girdle, EFI, custom rods, the pistons are JEs notched with valve reliefs and a lower ring to handle the juice. The cam and headers have made all the difference in max performance, we've experimented with a few different grinds of cams and headers. With a nice 200 shot of N2O it's run somewhere around 11.8@120mph. T/A Performance made the cam just for us.
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PostSubject: Re: My new 470 BBB   Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:19 pm

deekster_caddy wrote:
Awesome! Sounds like a very nice setup. Do you race at E-town?


We built something similar years ago, but running the iron heads and a flat cam. I'm sure you know the car, bobc455 on V8Buick. And instead of the 3.73s we are running a 2.56 rear. Block girdle, EFI, custom rods, the pistons are JEs notched with valve reliefs and a lower ring to handle the juice. The cam and headers have made all the difference in max performance, we've experimented with a few different grinds of cams and headers. With a nice 200 shot of N2O it's run somewhere around 11.8@120mph. T/A Performance made the cam just for us.

Yes, occasionally I run the car at E Town. I've also been to Atco, Cecil County in Md., and Lebanon Valley. My best time with the old engine was 12.11 @ 111.98 MPH. I expect this engine to power the car to mid to low 11's at least when I get the engine in, and everything sorted out. At the rate we are getting snow, that won't be till June lol

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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LARRY70GS
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PostSubject: Re: My new 470 BBB   Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:29 pm

I haven't updated this thread in awhile because this motor never made it into my car. When the builder pulled it apart to check it out (he didn't like some of the subsequent dyno readings), he discovered some wear on the #4 main bearing. He eventually traced it to a weakness in this particular block. He had to source me another block, and build me a second complete engine. We dialed the cam down a bit to get more engine vacuum. This time, we used a 231*/238*, 112* LSA, with .550/.571 lift. The engine made 602.3 HP @ 5900 RPM, and 589.1 TQ @ 4900 RPM.




My shop finally took delivery of this engine at the end of August. I drove my car up to Chappaqua and swapped the engines over a 2 day period, then drove home and back to finish the fuel system.

Drove the car down to Cecil County Dragway (170 mile), and made 7 passes on Drag Radialos. I had a very difficult time hooking this car up. The calculated altitude was 1400', and that sucks for this track. When the air is good here, it can be below sea level. I still got the car solidly into the 11's. When I get everything sorted out, look for low elevens. Click on the pictures for the video.




_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU


Last edited by LARRY70GS on Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: My new 470 BBB   Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:33 pm

Congrats Larry, I know you're going to have a blast getting it dialed in!
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PostSubject: Re: My new 470 BBB   Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:55 pm

Low 11's... cool beans... wink

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PostSubject: Re: My new 470 BBB   Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:06 pm

Those dyno numbers are quite impressive. Super flat torque, +/- 10 lb/ft across most of the band, dropping off near the top, but I bet you're above 500 lb/ft all the way down to idle. Mix in RPM with the slight torque peak at 4900, and your HP curve is about the most linear I've seen. I'd think every big block owner would kill to have numbers like yours. Amazing. Nice job!

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'98 SC Riviera • 268k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180Ί t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO • 49k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: My new 470 BBB   Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:20 pm

awesome!!!
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PostSubject: Re: My new 470 BBB   Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:00 am

Nice! I bet it is great feeling to get it running after all the hard work.

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PostSubject: Re: My new 470 BBB   Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:12 pm

I ran the car again this past September 20th. I discovered my fuel pump had a defect from the factory, and I got that repaired last year. It wasn't a factor though, and the car ran basically the same as last year. Density altitude was 1400' last year, and 1800' this year, so it wasn't a great day at Cecil County dragway. This track is at sea level, and it can get great air when a high pressure system moves in. This year, I had a Quadrajet done for my car, so I tested it along with the 1000 Holley. My best with the Q-jet was an 11.82@ 113.66, and with the Holley, an 11.67@115.02. This year I took off my front sway bar, and replaced my stock boxed rear lower control arms with some Metco Billet aluminum ones. I also had brand new MT ET Street Drag Radials. I made 6 passes, all in the 11's, and the car hooked every time. I drove the car loaded 350 miles round trip to Maryland, getting 14 MPG. I was shifting at 5500 RPM, but next, I will try winding it out to 6000, as I think that will pick the car up. I also have a gear vendors overdrive unit, and I can try going through the traps in 2nd overdrive, which will be like 4.09 gears, getting me closer to 6000 RPM through the traps. Here are 4 of my runs, first 2 with the Q-jet, last 2 with the Holley.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lcaczyzt1bY&feature=youtu.be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxYR6AVqAg0&feature=youtu.be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnFD69YyUmY&feature=youtu.be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDcTy53I8UQ&feature=youtu.be

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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PostSubject: Re: My new 470 BBB   Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:33 pm

Wow!
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LARRY70GS
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PostSubject: Re: My new 470 BBB   Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:14 pm

Just got back from Cecil County Dragway.  Another great Buick event.  Had a new personal best, 11.54 at 115.00 MPH.  Also ran an 11.58 @ 115.89.  Drove the car 175 miles down to Maryland , made 6 mid 11 second passes, and drove home, getting at one point, 18 MPG.  I love it!



Car # 201




_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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PostSubject: Re: My new 470 BBB   Mon Sep 22, 2014 10:08 pm

That's friggin' awesome, Larry. Love your car, man. Hope to take a ride in it sometime!

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 268k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180Ί t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO • 49k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: My new 470 BBB   Mon Sep 22, 2014 10:36 pm

That's sick, man. Sounds like it's running great. An 11 second cruiser...I love it.

thumbsup
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PostSubject: Re: My new 470 BBB   Tue Sep 23, 2014 9:14 am

Damn Larry, that's some consistent driving! What happened in run 2?

I've got to get my LeSabre done!
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PostSubject: Re: My new 470 BBB   Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:40 am

Nice! Love that car
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PostSubject: Re: My new 470 BBB   Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:09 pm

A lot of guys that trailer them don't get those numbers, nice work!
clap
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PostSubject: Re: My new 470 BBB   Tue Sep 23, 2014 2:32 pm

deekster_caddy wrote:
Damn Larry, that's some consistent driving! What happened in run 2?

I've got to get my LeSabre done!

I started off with 18 psi in the MT Drag Radials, and rolled up on the converter to 2000 RPM for run 1. On run 2, I dropped down to 16 psi, and launched at 2500. It didn't like it and spun the drag radials, not bad, but enough to lose 2 tenths off my 60'. I went back to 18 psi/2000 launch, and it hooked consistently after that. FWIW, I use a Switch Pitch Transmission, and a Gear Vendors Overdrive Unit.. The 12" torque converter is heavy because of the internals. I launch in high stall and switch to low stall about 3 seconds into the run. I could probably pick up quite a bit by going to a 9 or 10" fixed pitch converter that was built for my car, but that would probably impact my gas mileage. I may in fact go to a 4L80E which is a THM400 with a .70 Overdrive 4th gear. It also has a lock up converter. That would give me the best of both worlds if I had a high stall lock up converter.

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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PostSubject: Re: My new 470 BBB   Tue Sep 23, 2014 3:23 pm

Awesome! I have the exact same transmission setup and do the same thing - high stall at launch, switch to low stall as soon as things are stable. No GV though. How do you like that?

I prefer to just run a highway gear in the first place and I know the car _could_ ET faster but I prefer the highway cruiser. My brother's Special went 120 with the 2.56 rearend gears and got a best MPG ever of 19.9 on the way to Bowling Green...
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LARRY70GS
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PostSubject: Re: My new 470 BBB   Tue Sep 23, 2014 5:20 pm

I love the GV. It is rated for 1200 HP, and they actually dare you to try and break it in the instructions. I can turn it off and on with a floor mounted switch. The 3.73's turn into 2.76 in OD. Best of both worlds.

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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