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Mr.Riviera
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PostSubject: Phenolic intercooler core   Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:34 pm

There is a post on clubgp with a home made phenolic I/C core for sale:
http://www.clubgp.com/newforum/tm.asp?m=5499444&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1

I am really considering forking over the cash for it, but i'd like to know if anyone on here knows the guy or has any input for i get it.
$400 is a great price for basically a S3 zzp core. AND it is shorter than the zzp one so i may not have hood clearance problems (still need to place some books on the blower and close the hood to see.)

Matthew

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1996 with 244k miles, L32 4" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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PostSubject: Re: Phenolic intercooler core   Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:15 pm

it is a nicely enginered piece of equipment. If its worth $400? I dont know. But I do know someone will buy it if you dont.
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PostSubject: Re: Phenolic intercooler core   Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:18 pm

I emailed him asking if he could make some more. Maybe he would drop the price if a few more people were interested...

I noticed he hasnt made any real posts on that forum but i have yet to look him up on the bonnie forum to see if he is legit. One clubgp member (with some clout) gave him a thumbs up, would like to have at least one more reference.

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1996 with 244k miles, L32 4" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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crlombardi69
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PostSubject: Re: Phenolic intercooler core   Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:59 pm

I was talking to that guy about one of those units a couple of months ago and he wanted $500 for the ic and $75 for a machine l32 lim. He has one on his bonneville working good and has sold about 3or4 others and that's the last one of his production run. He sS hoping for more interest in these b/c of the price and its made out of the phenolic material which is the best (minimal heat soak). He will make more but that's probably his lowest price b/c I talked to him about his material and labor it takes to make them. Also you need to put all the other parts together for installation and most people want to see how they work on other cars and want some instructions/warranty and possible customer service with a self engineered performance item that is somewhat costly. I know his is working without problems on his Bonneville running 13.80's w/street tires and mild tune. I was gonna buy one for my car before a costly ticket and layoff @ work.
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PostSubject: Re: Phenolic intercooler core   Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:25 am

A piece of phenolic that size would set you back,$40 to $80 or so. a cooler that size around $29 to $40. Thats a $330 or so profit. Does he have his own lathe? he must. He aint cheap. if he has a jig,im sure he does,it probably no more than a couple hours worth of work. If he has his own lathe,its just his personal time. He is charging quite a lot, imo. machine shops charge $75 to $150 an hour.Ive come to the conclusion that he isnt doing anybody any favors. Its still a nice piece though.
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7901mark
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PostSubject: Re: Phenolic intercooler core   Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:32 am

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Last edited by 7901mark on Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mr.Riviera
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PostSubject: Re: Phenolic intercooler core   Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:06 pm

Wow i wouldnt think they would even be on ebay. Ones for the genv are pretty rare. I see them on clubgp used for around $300 they are normally the aluminum cores.

Zzps s3core is like $800

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1996 with 244k miles, L32 4" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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PostSubject: Re: Phenolic intercooler core   Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:33 pm

Quote :
$400 is pricey. I bought one for $135 new. Same type, a little different design, but will work the same. Got mine on ebay.... they are out there for a lot less, just need to find them!


Hello, I'm SSEILMNOP. I make and sell the phenolic intercooler you are talking about. Would love to know where you can get one for $135? I have not posted much on clubgp but I'm on 3800pro under the same username, sseilmnop.

Price estimates are pretty low for materials, but your machine shop rate is pretty close. I don't have a jig to make them, a jig cost way to much for the volume I am making. I might be able to get better prices on material if I bought in bulk but I don't have the money. I'm currently more than 1/2 off ZZP wonder how much they make?
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PostSubject: Re: Phenolic intercooler core   Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:21 pm

sseilmnop2 wrote:
Quote :
$400 is pricey. I bought one for $135 new. Same type, a little different design, but will work the same. Got mine on ebay.... they are out there for a lot less, just need to find them!


Hello, I'm SSEILMNOP. I make and sell the phenolic intercooler you are talking about. Would love to know where you can get one for $135? I have not posted much on clubgp but I'm on 3800pro under the same username, sseilmnop.

Price estimates are pretty low for materials, but your machine shop rate is pretty close. I don't have a jig to make them, a jig cost way to much for the volume I am making. I might be able to get better prices on material if I bought in bulk but I don't have the money. I'm currently more than 1/2 off ZZP wonder how much they make?

This is interesting!!? first off,let me tell you how impressed I am with machinists.Its precis work and you have my awesome respect. But how do you duplicate repeatedly without a Jig? free handing it is impossible,eyeballing it is ludicrous at best. you must have some kind of template?
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sseilmnop2
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PostSubject: Re: Phenolic intercooler core   Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:29 pm

The phenolic material is CNC machined on a vertical Bridgeport milling machine. CNC is computer numeric control, this is not done with a router or a manual milling machine.
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Karma
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PostSubject: Re: Phenolic intercooler core   Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:30 pm

haha. Robo, check the FS thread again on club GP. They are CNC'd. Its the best way to do up a part like that. (I was a CNC operator and programmer for 2 years).

To have something made like this, with this end result, the CNC machine access, and program setup, etc... this is a very reasonable deal.

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PostSubject: Re: Phenolic intercooler core   Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:39 pm

Damn!! so when do the series 1 guys get theirs?? and because we are "classic antique car" status now,we get the ultra fat discount rights seilmnop2?
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PostSubject: Re: Phenolic intercooler core   Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:54 pm

robotennis61 wrote:
Damn!! so when do the series 1 guys get theirs?? and because we are "classic antique car" status now,we get the ultra fat discount rights seilmnop2?

I thought it was 25 years before being considered a "Classic" and 50 yrs to be an "Antique"

Regardless, I am getting one of these I/C cores. Will report back when i receive it in the mail. Now i just need all the other crap to make it work lol

Matthew

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1996 with 244k miles, L32 4" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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robotennis61
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PostSubject: Re: Phenolic intercooler core   Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:59 pm

Mr.Riviera wrote:
robotennis61 wrote:
Damn!! so when do the series 1 guys get theirs?? and because we are "classic antique car" status now,we get the ultra fat discount rights seilmnop2?

I thought it was 25 years before being considered a "Classic" and 50 yrs to be an "Antique"

Regardless, I am getting one of these I/C cores. Will report back when i receive it in the mail. Now i just need all the other crap to make it work lol

Matthew

YO! be cool man!! he dont know that!??
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crlombardi69
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PostSubject: Re: Phenolic intercooler core   Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:06 pm

Also the PRJ model is only available in special orders only and they're made out of nice billet aluminum but they transfer heat and are $925+machine work on lim+shipping. So this phenolic one that ed is offering is a pretty good deal. For $135 you might be able to get a 1/4" phenolic spacer!
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Karma
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PostSubject: Re: Phenolic intercooler core   Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:08 pm

robotennis61 wrote:
Damn!! so when do the series 1 guys get theirs?? and because we are "classic antique car" status now,we get the ultra fat discount rights seilmnop2?

heh, find a way to lift the m62 and you can have one too.

The screwing around involved lifting it is what pushed me down the path of swapping in the Ford SC M90, since I would be doing custom work anyway.

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PostSubject: Re: Phenolic intercooler core   Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:23 pm

Karma wrote:
robotennis61 wrote:
Damn!! so when do the series 1 guys get theirs?? and because we are "classic antique car" status now,we get the ultra fat discount rights seilmnop2?

heh, find a way to lift the m62 and you can have one too.

The screwing around involved lifting it is what pushed me down the path of swapping in the Ford SC M90, since I would be doing custom work anyway.

this is new to me? whats this ??
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Mr.Riviera
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PostSubject: Re: Phenolic intercooler core   Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:49 pm

Mcmaster carr sells 1" x12"x24" phenolic material for like $75. You would need 2 of them to make a core. Plus you need the radiator. I am not questioning the deal here, just wanted to get some input on the seller. Seems Ed has enough presence in the 3800 crowd to hand over $400.

Will advise if i find otherwise.
Matthew

Still like to know exactly what Mark bought for $135 on ebay. Thats about what the FMHE's go for used...

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1996 with 244k miles, L32 4" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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crlombardi69
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PostSubject: Re: Phenolic intercooler core   Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:54 pm

Probably a SC space. That's about all he could've bought for that much.
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PostSubject: Re: Phenolic intercooler core   Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:27 pm

That core he uses has a very high fin per inch number and the fluid channels to go with it. I can't see it being bad. I'm sure it's worth the money he wants and some.
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7901mark
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PostSubject: Re: Phenolic intercooler core   Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:23 am

.



Last edited by 7901mark on Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Phenolic intercooler core   Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:36 am

Not disputing the existence of cheaper cores, or knocking the idea of budget builds, but FYI...

For anyone interested, the above pictured core is made from a fluid cooler. It is designed to cool fluid passing through it not air passing across it. Thermodynamics and heat exchanger science is tricky, but interesting. The basic thinking that just because heat can move in one direction efficiently that it can also do the same in the other direction with the same transfer is wrong.

Will a core primarily designed to cool liquid still cool the air-stream? well, better than no cooler, but you get what you pay for. If you are going to the trouble to inter-cool, might as well do it properly with a purpose designed water to air heat exchanger. The differences in heat transfer efficiency is astounding, and since the dwell time across the IC core is so short with our superchargers; we need all the efficiency we can get.

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PostSubject: Re: Phenolic intercooler core   Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:39 am

From the pic it looks like the radiator core hoses are located at the top. That might have been originally made for the m90 on the older t-birds. Hopefully you can adapt it to fit the riv and the hoses dont get in the way of the fuel injectors.

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1996 with 244k miles, L32 4" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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7901mark
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PostSubject: Re: Phenolic intercooler core   Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:47 am

.


Last edited by 7901mark on Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Karma
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PostSubject: Re: Phenolic intercooler core   Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:53 am

7901mark wrote:
so all this is just for fun.

Everything should be for fun! Especially for cars. Once it stops being fun, it should stop being done! wink

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