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95rivy
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95rivy

Name : curt
Location : upstate ny
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PostSubject: excessive wheel play   excessive wheel play EmptyFri Apr 22, 2011 2:26 pm

So today i jacked up the front of my car checking to find why my car shift so hard and the front wheel goes back and forth more than normal. when i grab the top of the tire i can move my hand about 8 to 10 inches back and forth..moving the tire to the front and towards the back of the car. I know there is some play in the transmission but this seems like a lot..Do i have something going bad in the transmission itself? I checked the half shaft the seem ok, not alot of sloop there. Its the same on both sides of the car and both shaft feel good, not sure what to do from here. Any ideas? help
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Mr.Riviera
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Mr.Riviera

Name : Matthew
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PostSubject: Re: excessive wheel play   excessive wheel play EmptyFri Apr 22, 2011 3:58 pm

rotation front to back like that is normal.
What you want to look for is play in the tie rods or wheel bearing. Try moving the wheel in and out from a 12:00 and 6:00 hand position to check for the wheel bearing. 3:00 and 9:00 for the tie rods
Neither of those would really give a hard shift. you may feel a knock or bump on shifts but i think you are looking in the wrong area fr a hard shift issue.

Have you replaced the vac modulator at the front of the transmission yet?

_________________
1996 with 254k miles, L32 4" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs. -RIP
AMG C400 White on black -daily
excessive wheel play Dsc_0110
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95rivy
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95rivy

Name : curt
Location : upstate ny
Joined : 2009-04-04
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PostSubject: Re: excessive wheel play   excessive wheel play EmptyFri Apr 22, 2011 5:43 pm

I know front to back play is normal but this is more than i've seen on any car. I have no play when I checked for ball joint and tie rod end. Most cars I looked at and worked on only have about 4 to 5 inches of play front to back. This is way more than i've ever seen.
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flyineagle96
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flyineagle96

Name : James E
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PostSubject: Re: excessive wheel play   excessive wheel play EmptyFri Apr 22, 2011 6:30 pm

Maybe the rack?
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95rivy
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95rivy

Name : curt
Location : upstate ny
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PostSubject: Re: excessive wheel play   excessive wheel play EmptyFri Apr 22, 2011 6:50 pm

No its not that kind of play..its in the tranny going front to back.cuz i am rotating the wheel not shaking it
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flyineagle96
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flyineagle96

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PostSubject: Re: excessive wheel play   excessive wheel play EmptyFri Apr 22, 2011 6:52 pm

It' your wheel bearings.......
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95rivy
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95rivy

Name : curt
Location : upstate ny
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PostSubject: Re: excessive wheel play   excessive wheel play EmptyFri Apr 22, 2011 6:55 pm

I dont think so, I have never seen a wheel bearing do this before..I no how to check for the basic stuff, but this is more than what i've seen before.
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albertj
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albertj

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PostSubject: Re: excessive wheel play   excessive wheel play EmptyFri Apr 22, 2011 7:07 pm

I'm gonna sound like a broken record...



check your motor and transmission mounts. replace the ones that have cracks. The motor mount you can see on teh passenger frame rail when you open the hood is most likely good. The transmission mounts on teh cradle are most likely bad.

Albertj
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95rivy
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95rivy

Name : curt
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PostSubject: Re: excessive wheel play   excessive wheel play EmptyFri Apr 22, 2011 7:14 pm

Well i have a new rear mount...but this dose'nt seem like a mount issue..I can rotate the tire alot lot...could it be the diff in the tranny itself??
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flyineagle96
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flyineagle96

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PostSubject: Re: excessive wheel play   excessive wheel play EmptyFri Apr 22, 2011 8:02 pm

The splines in your hub whelb.......
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95rivy
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95rivy

Name : curt
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PostSubject: Re: excessive wheel play   excessive wheel play EmptySun Apr 24, 2011 9:08 am

Can you guys do me a favor? Next time someone is going to work on there car, can jack up one the front tires. Then rotate the tire all the way to the back of the car, then put your hand at 12:00 and rotate the tire towards the front. Let me know how far your hand goes. Like is it 10;00 or 11:00, just trying to get an idea how my car is to the others out there. Thanks again and Happy Easter eveyone
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albertj
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albertj

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PostSubject: Re: excessive wheel play   excessive wheel play EmptySun Apr 24, 2011 5:07 pm

95rivy wrote:
Well i have a new rear mount...but this dose'nt seem like a mount issue..I can rotate the tire alot lot...could it be the diff in the tranny itself??

I apologize, did tno read it that claose.

Now that I've had a nap.... wink

You'll need a buddy to suss this out.

Jack front end up again and while your buddy turns the wheel back and forth, hold the half shaft still. And block the other wheel so it won't turn at all (chock it with a board or bricks or what no so it won't turn at all).

NOW if the wheel turns while holding the half shaft, you have a CV issue. Measure the distance of play (at the wheel)

Next, let go of the 1/2 shaft and hold the inner joint. Do the turning again. Feel for looseness in the inner joint.

Repeat on the other side of car.

By holding parts of the front drive axles/joints still you can use the distance that the wheel turns to figure out what % of the "slop" to attribute to what part of the system. This process will bring you from the wheels to the differential. If you get to the diff and there's not enough play to note, *then* you have a problem in the transaxle.

Hope this helps and let us know what you find.

Albertj
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albertj
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albertj

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PostSubject: Re: excessive wheel play   excessive wheel play EmptySun Apr 24, 2011 5:11 pm

95rivy wrote:
Can you guys do me a favor? Next time someone is going to work on there car, can jack up one the front tires. Then rotate the tire all the way to the back of the car, then put your hand at 12:00 and rotate the tire towards the front. Let me know how far your hand goes. Like is it 10;00 or 11:00, just trying to get an idea how my car is to the others out there. Thanks again and Happy Easter eveyone

I will try to remember to do this when I replace the serp and acc belts (hopefully this week)

I wonder if his 'figure of merit' (transmission lash) is in the service manual?!?
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95rivy
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95rivy

Name : curt
Location : upstate ny
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PostSubject: Re: excessive wheel play   excessive wheel play EmptySun Apr 24, 2011 6:22 pm

Alright I think I narrowed down my problem. I tried holding the halfshaft and turn the wheel..there is no play here at all, both inner and outer part. I can rotate from 12:00 to 11:00 maybe a little past 11:00. So im thinking i have a transmission going bad..Bummer. So buy low mile used or have mine rebuilt? I can pull it out myself so thats not an issue to have mine rebuilt. Thinking either way will cost about the same, but was just wondering what route was better.
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albertj
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albertj

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PostSubject: Re: excessive wheel play   excessive wheel play EmptySun Apr 24, 2011 9:27 pm

95rivy wrote:
Alright I think I narrowed down my problem. I tried holding the halfshaft and turn the wheel..there is no play here at all, both inner and outer part. I can rotate from 12:00 to 11:00 maybe a little past 11:00. So im thinking i have a transmission going bad..Bummer. So buy low mile used or have mine rebuilt? I can pull it out myself so thats not an issue to have mine rebuilt. Thinking either way will cost about the same, but was just wondering what route was better.

yes but is it operating OK as it is? we still don't know what's "normal" for the trans. 12 to 11 is 30 degrees of lash, that's not that much is it?

Albertj
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AA
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AA

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PostSubject: Re: excessive wheel play   excessive wheel play EmptyMon Apr 25, 2011 10:43 am

Could this be a problem with the differential rather than the transmission itself?

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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95rivy
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95rivy

Name : curt
Location : upstate ny
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PostSubject: Re: excessive wheel play   excessive wheel play EmptyMon Apr 25, 2011 7:30 pm

Yea Albert the tranny seems strong..today i was moving out of a parking spot and after i got it in drive someone next to me started to pull out so i was rolling for about 5 feet or so and not on the gas just rolling the car made a clunck noise..AA I dont now a hole lot about the insides of a transmission so this may sound dumb..can the differential be fixed and not have the transmission rebuilt??
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albertj
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albertj

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Location : Finger Lakes of New York State
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PostSubject: Re: excessive wheel play   excessive wheel play EmptyMon Apr 25, 2011 10:19 pm

This may help (a diagram)

https://www.wittrans.com/images/schematics/4T60E/4T65E/4T60E-Poster.jpg

I suspect your problem is in that final chain drive, about 2/3 the way across the page in the top row of parts looking from left to right.

bounce
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AA
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AA

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PostSubject: Re: excessive wheel play   excessive wheel play EmptyMon Apr 25, 2011 11:35 pm

Quote :
AA I dont now a hole lot about the insides of a transmission so this may sound dumb..can the differential be fixed and not have the transmission rebuilt??
I suppose it can, as one 3800 mechanic charges $800 to swap the transmission, but only $150 to service the diff.

I really don't know the symptoms of a bad diff. I'm still on my orig at 223k miles. However, it is the link between your drive shafts and the trans, so might be worth checking into. I'd guess it's possible for a bad diff to could show the symptoms report before ultimately failing.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
albertj
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albertj

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Location : Finger Lakes of New York State
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PostSubject: Re: excessive wheel play   excessive wheel play EmptyMon Apr 25, 2011 11:41 pm

AA wrote:
Quote :
AA I dont now a hole lot about the insides of a transmission so this may sound dumb..can the differential be fixed and not have the transmission rebuilt??
I suppose it can, as one 3800 mechanic charges $800 to swap the transmission, but only $150 to service the diff.

I really don't know the symptoms of a bad diff. I'm still on my orig at 223k miles. However, it is the link between your drive shafts and the trans, so might be worth checking into. I'd guess it's possible for a bad diff to could show the symptoms report before ultimately failing.

IIRC you can get to the diff without pulling the transmission by removing the drivers side wheel, the half-axle, and then the valve body. But don't quote me...

Albertj
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95rivy
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95rivy

Name : curt
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PostSubject: Re: excessive wheel play   excessive wheel play EmptyTue Apr 26, 2011 5:23 pm

Wow you guys are great thanks for the help. at least now i have something to go on. great info that i can mention to my wife's work to do the work on the rivy.
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