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 Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)

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98riv
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Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)   Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 EmptyWed Nov 21, 2012 7:49 pm

AA wrote:
I think there are two areas of block that could work. Use the one closest to the water pump.

Here are two pictures that I took of the area closes to the water pump.

Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 Dsc00583jk

Compressor Bracket View
Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 Dsc00584tl

I can't find a good place down on this end of the engine for a support. I guess I'll try to use the transmission spot that you posted above.

_________________
1998 Supercharged Riviera - Custom CAI, Alpine spx-13ref, Infinity 6x9's, Alpine 4 Channel Amp, Kicker KX3, Silverstars, STB, Hawk Brake Pads, Monroe Air Shocks, KYB GR2
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LARRY70GS
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Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)   Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 EmptyWed Nov 21, 2012 8:14 pm

It looks like the spot I used is covered by the CPS cover. Don't remember mine extending that far. There is nothing wrong with supporting it under the balancer either. Done that many times with my 455.

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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98riv
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Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)   Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 EmptyWed Nov 21, 2012 10:40 pm

LARRY70GS wrote:
It looks like the spot I used is covered by the CPS cover.  Don't remember mine extending that far.  There is nothing wrong with supporting it under the balancer either.  Done that many times with my 455.

I will try to use the location that AA posted and hopefully it won't be to far from the water pump.  If that doesn't work, do I just put a block of wood on the bottom of the balancer in the top of my first picture?

Also, do I need to put RTV on the metal gasket version?
Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 Dsc00586fo

_________________
1998 Supercharged Riviera - Custom CAI, Alpine spx-13ref, Infinity 6x9's, Alpine 4 Channel Amp, Kicker KX3, Silverstars, STB, Hawk Brake Pads, Monroe Air Shocks, KYB GR2
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AA
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Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)   Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 EmptyWed Nov 21, 2012 10:50 pm

Or, you could change out the pump without needing to remove the mount, if you modify one of the bolts for easier removal.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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98riv
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Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)   Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 EmptyWed Nov 21, 2012 10:52 pm

AA wrote:
Or, you could change out the pump without needing to remove the mount, if you modify one of the bolts for easier removal.

I need to change out the idler behind the bracket, otherwise I would give it a try.

_________________
1998 Supercharged Riviera - Custom CAI, Alpine spx-13ref, Infinity 6x9's, Alpine 4 Channel Amp, Kicker KX3, Silverstars, STB, Hawk Brake Pads, Monroe Air Shocks, KYB GR2
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AA
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Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)   Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 EmptyWed Nov 21, 2012 11:40 pm

For that gasket, I wouldn't use RTV. Looks like it includes a flexible layer that is self-sealing.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
98riv
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Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)   Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 EmptyTue Dec 04, 2012 12:19 pm

98riv wrote:
AA wrote:
Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 IMG_2237

I saw that when I was under there but wasn't sure if that would work. But if that works then great!

I tried using that location and it didn't work. I may either buy an engine hoist or just using a block of wood on the oil pan bolts and jack it up from there and change the oil pan gasket later if needed.

_________________
1998 Supercharged Riviera - Custom CAI, Alpine spx-13ref, Infinity 6x9's, Alpine 4 Channel Amp, Kicker KX3, Silverstars, STB, Hawk Brake Pads, Monroe Air Shocks, KYB GR2
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AA
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Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)   Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 EmptyTue Dec 04, 2012 6:56 pm

Oil pan bolts should work fine, or you can prop it from under the crank pulley as Larry suggested. The engine really isn't that heavy compared to the rest of the car. As long as you're not bearing the car's weight + supporting the engine there shouldn't be much problem.


_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
98riv
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Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)   Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 EmptyTue Dec 04, 2012 7:01 pm

AA wrote:
Oil pan bolts should work fine, or you can prop it from under the crank pulley as Larry suggested. The engine really isn't that heavy compared to the rest of the car. As long as you're not bearing the car's weight + supporting the engine there shouldn't be much problem.


I got it changed this afternoon. I ended up using a piece of a 2x6 and put it under three of the oil pan bolts. I forgot how much a pain in the butt it is removing the mount and the idler behind it. The new water pump looks like a better design than the oem pump.

_________________
1998 Supercharged Riviera - Custom CAI, Alpine spx-13ref, Infinity 6x9's, Alpine 4 Channel Amp, Kicker KX3, Silverstars, STB, Hawk Brake Pads, Monroe Air Shocks, KYB GR2
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Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: changed water pump - couple of tips...   Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 EmptySat Dec 21, 2013 9:48 am

Thanks for the excellent write up and pics on changing the water pump for the series 2 engine.
I have the GM shop manual and it was no help; made no mention of the PS pump pulley in the way.

I just completed mine (97 NA) yesterday and it only took a couple of hours and $35. I would only add a couple of tips for the next guy:

No need to raise the engine. You don't need to remove the motor mounts. I completed the whole job in relative ease from leaning over the passenger side fender. It's a little tricky to get the fourth small bolt out of the bottom of the water pump (because you can't see it) but with a little finesse, you won't have too much trouble ratcheting it out.

It is necessary to remove the PS pump. I tried everything around that, because it's a little difficult to line the holes up and put back. You can't just remove the top bolt and spin it out of the way because a stud hits the back of the PS pump pulley, so you have to take both bolts out to move it aside.

Re-use your hardware? My bolts were pretty gummy, but after a few seconds on the wire wheel they worked like new. Just be mindful to not over torque them.

The new pump that I purchased from NAPA was only $35 and was of excellent quality. It also came with a metal gasket that required no additional silicone.

She's back on the road and I was pleasantly surprised of the ease and low cost of this repair...
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deekster_caddy
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Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)   Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 EmptySun Mar 06, 2016 6:29 pm

So I did the water pump in our '98 Riv today and took a slightly different approach to not removing the engine bracket or supercharger idler. Call me a maniac or a genius...  I cut the end of the old water pump off around the bolt with a sawzall, and then on the new water pump I cut a notch in the bolt hole just big enough to slide around the bolt. It's aluminum and cuts very, very easily! So basically, we never removed the front bottom bolt. Worthless without pics, right? So here you go!
The old and new pumps below:
Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 25470911701_f97aa36887_c
A closeup of the notch in the new pump below:
Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 24936939033_822c705335_c
And a pic of the bolt we never removed below:
Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 24933145444_2a0f424bf5_c

It should go without saying that this eliminates any chance of a core refund, so spend the $5 extra to get the new pump instead of leaving a $5 core deposit...
Also, I had to use a long sawzall blade to get all the way down there and have a helper hold the pump still. The sawzall blade is called "THE TORCH" rockets and I had to be careful not to damage anything else around the standoff, but it took an extra 10 minutes to do and will save even more time if the pump ever needs to be replaced again! (IF we remember that we did this...) It goes right along with cutting the spacer to make belt changes easier!
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Jack the R
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Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)   Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 EmptySat Aug 03, 2019 4:43 am

LARRY70GS wrote:
The long ones go through water, so after cleaning them, I used some teflon sealer on the shanks, and anti seize on the threads.

I'm dubious on this. I didn't see any signs of that stuff on the bolts I pulled, which are fine after 22 years. What is the teflon sealer supposed to do, protect the bolt shanks from rusting? Is it going to stay on the bolt shanks with water flowing over it? I'm concerned that it is going to wash off and collect in the radiator.
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LARRY70GS
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Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)   Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 EmptySat Aug 03, 2019 6:14 pm

Jack the R wrote:
LARRY70GS wrote:
The long ones go through water, so after cleaning them, I used some teflon sealer on the shanks, and anti seize on the threads.

I'm dubious on this.  I didn't see any signs of that stuff on the bolts I pulled, which are fine after 22 years.  What is the teflon sealer supposed to do, protect the bolt shanks from rusting?  Is it going to stay on the bolt shanks with water flowing over it?  I'm concerned that it is going to wash off and collect in the radiator.  

It's been so long since I did the water pump Jack. Can't remember where I saw that. I know on my 70 GS, some of the bolts go through water and I think the FSM tells you to coat them in something they call "Perfect Seal" The anti seize is way more important.

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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Jack the R
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Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)   Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 EmptySat Aug 03, 2019 11:01 pm

There was no anti-seize on the bolts I took out. The part they bolt into (timing chain cover?) is aluminum, isn't it? Can the bolts rust into aluminum? Mine didn't rust after 22 years. They had some deposits on them, but they came out easy enough.

I did see a strip of what looked like threadlocker on my bolts, so I did put some threadlocker on. That makes more sense to me, I imagine a water pump has to have some vibration to it, and the torque setting for the bolts is pretty low. If yours haven't come out, then I suppose it's enough, and the threadlocker was just an extra bit of security.

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Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)   Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 EmptySun Aug 04, 2019 8:38 am

JR,
I wouldn't worry about it. If it doesn't need changing within another 20 years you won't need to be bothered by any seized or leaking bolts.

The teflon goop is to seal any bolt that enters a water jacket. But your thread locker should do the same.

The anti-seize helps with dissimilar metal corrosion. i.e., Steel Bolt and Aluminum housing.
Again, I wouldn't take everything apart. Just continue with what your doing, fill the system and after it gets hot look everything over real good to be sure you don't have any drips or leaks from the gasket area and all the bolts.

Happy Motoring.
Rick


Last edited by Rickw on Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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LARRY70GS
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Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)   Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 EmptySun Aug 04, 2019 11:34 am

Yeah, might not be necessary on the 3800. I am so used to doing it with my 350 and 455's that I used the anti seize when i did the Riv. It doesn't hurt. It is absolutely necessary on the older v8's though.

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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Jack the R
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Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)   Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 EmptyMon Aug 05, 2019 3:19 am

Rickw wrote:
JR,
I wouldn't worry about it. If it doesn't need changing within another 20 years you won't need to be bothered by any seized or leaking bolts.
Rick

What, are you saying I won't be driving this car thirty years from now?

My Charger is nearly 50 years old, and I plan to get another 50 out of it rock In twenty years I'll set it up to be self-driving, and it can carry me around when I'm 90.

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LARRY70GS
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Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)   Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 EmptyMon Aug 05, 2019 1:40 pm

Jack the R wrote:
Rickw wrote:
JR,
I wouldn't worry about it. If it doesn't need changing within another 20 years you won't need to be bothered by any seized or leaking bolts.
Rick

What, are you saying I won't be driving this car thirty years from now?  

My Charger is nearly 50 years old, and I plan to get another 50 out of it rock  In twenty years I'll set it up to be self-driving, and it can carry me around when I'm 90.


You have a 70 Charger Jack? Can we see some pictures? What engine? My all time favorite Mopar ever since seeing Bullitt.

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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Jack the R
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Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)   Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 EmptyTue Aug 06, 2019 3:41 pm

No, I have a 72, which is probably not your favorite lol
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LARRY70GS
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Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC)   Write-Up: Water Pump (Series II SC) - Page 2 EmptyTue Aug 06, 2019 3:49 pm

Jack the R wrote:
No, I have a 72, which is probably not your favorite lol  

Nothing compares to the 68-70 Charger. lol

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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