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lo619
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PostSubject: Cleaned EGR Now car wont start   Sun May 22, 2011 3:16 pm

So, this morning I decided to clean out the EGR to see if it would help my new to me 95 SC to see if it would idle smoother. When I inspected it It wasn't bad, not clogged or anything, but I proceeded to clean it with carb cleaner. I did not put on a new gasket, because the old one looked fine, I also sprayed a little cleaner down the intake and exhaust holes bolted it pack up, re connected the wire connector and started the car. It ran like sh*t. and then died on me, now when I try to start her she turns over, wants to run but just wont start up.

Did I some how f*** something up? Need some advice guys. puzzled puzzled puzzled puzzled puzzled
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Cleaned EGR Now car wont start   Sun May 22, 2011 7:58 pm

lo619 wrote:
So, this morning I decided to clean out the EGR to see if it would help my new to me 95 SC to see if it would idle smoother. When I inspected it It wasn't bad, not clogged or anything, but I proceeded to clean it with carb cleaner. I did not put on a new gasket, because the old one looked fine, I also sprayed a little cleaner down the intake and exhaust holes bolted it pack up, re connected the wire connector and started the car. It ran like sh*t. and then died on me, now when I try to start her she turns over, wants to run but just wont start up.

Did I some how f*** something up? Need some advice guys. puzzled puzzled puzzled puzzled puzzled

I was not aware that carb cleaner was OK to use on an EGR.

Albertj
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lo619
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PostSubject: Re: Cleaned EGR Now car wont start   Sun May 22, 2011 11:24 pm

albertj wrote:
lo619 wrote:
So, this morning I decided to clean out the EGR to see if it would help my new to me 95 SC to see if it would idle smoother. When I inspected it It wasn't bad, not clogged or anything, but I proceeded to clean it with carb cleaner. I did not put on a new gasket, because the old one looked fine, I also sprayed a little cleaner down the intake and exhaust holes bolted it pack up, re connected the wire connector and started the car. It ran like sh*t. and then died on me, now when I try to start her she turns over, wants to run but just wont start up.

Did I some how f*** something up? Need some advice guys. puzzled puzzled puzzled puzzled puzzled

I was not aware that carb cleaner was OK to use on an EGR.

Albertj

In my previous vehicle my EGR was blocked with carbon and doing this really helped it to run better. You can clean IAC, MAP and MAF sensors with carb cleaner when they are dirty or have carbon built up.

I'm not quite sure what is going on it still will not start, I replaced the gasket with a new one. it turns over and tries but nothing happens. I really need some advice. I just bought this car last month and paid all the registration fees yesterday. I have been without a vehcile now since the beginning of feb and was really looking forward to driving again.
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lo619
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PostSubject: Re: Cleaned EGR Now car wont start   Sun May 22, 2011 11:33 pm

I just disconnected the battery to see if it resets the CPU.... hopefully this works.
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Cleaned EGR Now car wont start   Mon May 23, 2011 12:49 am

My understanding is that on GM cars the aftermarket EGR valves do not have enough internal spring pressure to hold closed. They creep open in use, which fouls the intake mixture, blackening the inside of the intake manifold, carbonizing the IAT sensor, and causing other problems. .

My point is a pO may have installed an aftermarket EGR instead of cleaning the OE one and your problem may not be so much a dirty valve as it is a punk valve.

And I still don't know jack about using carb cleaner on them.

So I am thinking you need a replacement EGR, preferably a Delco, if you shop around you should find a parts place selling the Delcos at a discount.

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97 park ave
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PostSubject: Re: Cleaned EGR Now car wont start   Mon May 23, 2011 1:02 am

lo619 wrote:
albertj wrote:
lo619 wrote:
So, this morning I decided to clean out the EGR to see if it would help my new to me 95 SC to see if it would idle smoother. When I inspected it It wasn't bad, not clogged or anything, but I proceeded to clean it with carb cleaner. I did not put on a new gasket, because the old one looked fine, I also sprayed a little cleaner down the intake and exhaust holes bolted it pack up, re connected the wire connector and started the car. It ran like sh*t. and then died on me, now when I try to start her she turns over, wants to run but just wont start up.

Did I some how f*** something up? Need some advice guys. puzzled puzzled puzzled puzzled puzzled

I was not aware that carb cleaner was OK to use on an EGR.

Albertj

In my previous vehicle my EGR was blocked with carbon and doing this really helped it to run better. You can clean IAC, MAP and MAF sensors with carb cleaner when they are dirty or have carbon built up.

You absolutely can NOT use anything but MAF cleaner to clean a MAF, this includes carb cleaner. If you used carb cleaner on you MAF its probably junk.
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lo619
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PostSubject: Re: Cleaned EGR Now car wont start   Mon May 23, 2011 1:12 am

albertj wrote:
My understanding is that on GM cars the aftermarket EGR valves do not have enough internal spring pressure to hold closed. They creep open in use, which fouls the intake mixture, blackening the inside of the intake manifold, carbonizing the IAT sensor, and causing other problems. .

My point is a pO may have installed an aftermarket EGR instead of cleaning the OE one and your problem may not be so much a dirty valve as it is a punk valve.

And I still don't know jack about using carb cleaner on them.

So I am thinking you need a replacement EGR, preferably a Delco, if you shop around you should find a parts place selling the Delcos at a discount.


You have a good point with the EGR being a aftermarket. Would a faulty EGR cause the car not to run at all? If that is the case then that's probably what happened. The whole reason I'm cleaning stuff is because of the idle and it also failed a california smog for the PO and I have to re-smog the car. I want to pull any codes it might be throwing... No check engine light.... EGR's for this bad boy are $100+ If you know of a site that has them cheaper let me know. I'm already dipping into the hundreds of dollars just to get it on the road.
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lo619
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PostSubject: Re: Cleaned EGR Now car wont start   Mon May 23, 2011 1:15 am

97 park ave wrote:
lo619 wrote:
albertj wrote:
lo619 wrote:
So, this morning I decided to clean out the EGR to see if it would help my new to me 95 SC to see if it would idle smoother. When I inspected it It wasn't bad, not clogged or anything, but I proceeded to clean it with carb cleaner. I did not put on a new gasket, because the old one looked fine, I also sprayed a little cleaner down the intake and exhaust holes bolted it pack up, re connected the wire connector and started the car. It ran like sh*t. and then died on me, now when I try to start her she turns over, wants to run but just wont start up.

Did I some how f*** something up? Need some advice guys. puzzled puzzled puzzled puzzled puzzled

I was not aware that carb cleaner was OK to use on an EGR.

Albertj

In my previous vehicle my EGR was blocked with carbon and doing this really helped it to run better. You can clean IAC, MAP and MAF sensors with carb cleaner when they are dirty or have carbon built up.

You absolutely can NOT use anything but MAF cleaner to clean a MAF, this includes carb cleaner. If you used carb cleaner on you MAF its probably junk.

I cleaned my airflow sensor 3 weeks ago with carb cleaner and it ran much better afterwards.. (I get MAP and MAF mixed up)
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97 park ave
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PostSubject: Re: Cleaned EGR Now car wont start   Mon May 23, 2011 9:30 am

lo619 wrote:
97 park ave wrote:
lo619 wrote:
albertj wrote:
lo619 wrote:
So, this morning I decided to clean out the EGR to see if it would help my new to me 95 SC to see if it would idle smoother. When I inspected it It wasn't bad, not clogged or anything, but I proceeded to clean it with carb cleaner. I did not put on a new gasket, because the old one looked fine, I also sprayed a little cleaner down the intake and exhaust holes bolted it pack up, re connected the wire connector and started the car. It ran like sh*t. and then died on me, now when I try to start her she turns over, wants to run but just wont start up.

Did I some how f*** something up? Need some advice guys. puzzled puzzled puzzled puzzled puzzled

I was not aware that carb cleaner was OK to use on an EGR.

Albertj

In my previous vehicle my EGR was blocked with carbon and doing this really helped it to run better. You can clean IAC, MAP and MAF sensors with carb cleaner when they are dirty or have carbon built up.

You absolutely can NOT use anything but MAF cleaner to clean a MAF, this includes carb cleaner. If you used carb cleaner on you MAF its probably junk.

I cleaned my airflow sensor 3 weeks ago with carb cleaner and it ran much better afterwards.. (I get MAP and MAF mixed up)
And now your car isnt running, sounds like it worked great for those 3 weeks though...
rolleyes
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robotennis61
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PostSubject: Re: Cleaned EGR Now car wont start   Mon May 23, 2011 6:44 pm

Dont know for sure if related,Make sure all the elec connections near the timing cover are dry and clean of oil. CCS,CSS,Knock and other..if impregnated with oil, they will screw up the dialogue between the sensors and the computer.unplug and spray with elec clean and then a dab of dialectric.and check again...happened to me,fixed it,damned if the car dont run a ton better....
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98riv
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PostSubject: Re: Cleaned EGR Now car wont start   Mon May 23, 2011 7:21 pm

97 park ave wrote:
lo619 wrote:
97 park ave wrote:
lo619 wrote:
albertj wrote:
lo619 wrote:
So, this morning I decided to clean out the EGR to see if it would help my new to me 95 SC to see if it would idle smoother. When I inspected it It wasn't bad, not clogged or anything, but I proceeded to clean it with carb cleaner. I did not put on a new gasket, because the old one looked fine, I also sprayed a little cleaner down the intake and exhaust holes bolted it pack up, re connected the wire connector and started the car. It ran like sh*t. and then died on me, now when I try to start her she turns over, wants to run but just wont start up.

Did I some how f*** something up? Need some advice guys. puzzled puzzled puzzled puzzled puzzled

I was not aware that carb cleaner was OK to use on an EGR.

Albertj

In my previous vehicle my EGR was blocked with carbon and doing this really helped it to run better. You can clean IAC, MAP and MAF sensors with carb cleaner when they are dirty or have carbon built up.

You absolutely can NOT use anything but MAF cleaner to clean a MAF, this includes carb cleaner. If you used carb cleaner on you MAF its probably junk.

I cleaned my airflow sensor 3 weeks ago with carb cleaner and it ran much better afterwards.. (I get MAP and MAF mixed up)
And now your car isnt running, sounds like it worked great for those 3 weeks though...
rolleyes

You are correct about not using carb cleaner on the maf. It can damage the sensor. If a person can't find maf cleaner, they can use electronic contact cleaner. It is a little easier to find. The car will still run without a maf. It just won't be able to tell how much air is coming into the engine.

Make sure that you plugged everything back in and that you didn't knock anything lose when you took the egr off and cleaned it. Check the vacuum lines, grounds and fuses while your at it. Check the easier stuff first and then move onto the harder solutions.

_________________
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lo619
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PostSubject: Re: Cleaned EGR Now car wont start   Tue May 24, 2011 1:30 am

I know i plugged everything back in properly. One thing I did notice is that the harness that connects the EGR, IAC, MAF and the other sensor (the orange one... don't know what this one is?) are aged. The insulation is cracked and wire is slightly exposed near the EGR, The wire is intact, though. The orange male connecter that goes to the throttle body is in pretty bad shape, I had to put pieces of the plastic into it's female connector and plug it in to where the pieces fit. I'm thinking that maybe there is a short or bad connection somewhere that is causing the issue. I'm going to try and get to a junkyard in my city and pull some parts. I don't have a code reader to scan for codes so I'm forced to troubleshoot. What other things should i be checking for?
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Cleaned EGR Now car wont start   Tue May 24, 2011 4:29 am

lo619 wrote:
I know i plugged everything back in properly. One thing I did notice is that the harness that connects the EGR, IAC, MAF and the other sensor (the orange one... don't know what this one is?) are aged. The insulation is cracked and wire is slightly exposed near the EGR, The wire is intact, though. The orange male connecter that goes to the throttle body is in pretty bad shape, I had to put pieces of the plastic into it's female connector and plug it in to where the pieces fit. I'm thinking that maybe there is a short or bad connection somewhere that is causing the issue. I'm going to try and get to a junkyard in my city and pull some parts. I don't have a code reader to scan for codes so I'm forced to troubleshoot. What other things should i be checking for?

Do you think you should be checking eBay for a scanner that will work with your Riv?

Do you think you should use a multimeter to backprobe thru connectors to see if the wires with bad insulation have developed resistance? You may need to do some wiring repair. rockauto.com has a fairly extensive stock of repair harness connectors -- you do have to search diligently for them on their site but they are there.
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lo619
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PostSubject: Re: Cleaned EGR Now car wont start   Tue May 24, 2011 11:02 am

I don't have a multimeter, but I'll try and borrow one. to cherck the wiring like you said. I don't know if I can afford a scanner, but i'll look. Thanks. I'm going to the junkyard and I will just cut the wires out of another car when i get the chance and pick up a couple EGR's, and maybe an MAF since the guy said mine might be broken.
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bigdave
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PostSubject: Re: Cleaned EGR Now car wont start   Tue May 24, 2011 4:13 pm

Dont cut the wires if you can help it. You should be able to remove the entire harness in an hour or so. Splicing all those wires could lead to more problems now or in the future
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97 park ave
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PostSubject: Re: Cleaned EGR Now car wont start   Tue May 24, 2011 4:26 pm

lo619 wrote:
...and maybe an MAF since the guy said mine might be broken.
Couldnt of been the carb cleaner you sprayed on it, i wonder what killed it...
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lo619
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PostSubject: Re: Cleaned EGR Now car wont start   Tue May 24, 2011 8:58 pm

97 park ave wrote:
lo619 wrote:
...and maybe an MAF since the guy said mine might be broken.
Couldnt of been the carb cleaner you sprayed on it, i wonder what killed it...

Why do you have to be such an asshole? Get over yourself, dude. I never said you were wrong, truthfully I didnt know they made a cleaner for MAF. I just came here for answers to questions so I can fix my ride. There are other ways of talking to people and If a broken MAF would stop my car from starting due to spraying carb cleaner on it then just say that next time. I would have believed you and got one at the junkyard when I go.

I appreciate the help to everyone who posted. Thanks.
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97 park ave
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PostSubject: Re: Cleaned EGR Now car wont start   Tue May 24, 2011 9:09 pm

I did say it already, i became an asshole after you proceeded to tell me you can use carb cleaner on nearly anything, only later to say your maf is most likely dead. Dont ask questions if youre just going to tell people with answers that theyre wrong, theres a reason youre asking for help so try listening, just sayin...

And if you suspect your maf is dead, unplug it and crank the car
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Karma
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PostSubject: Re: Cleaned EGR Now car wont start   Tue May 24, 2011 9:48 pm

97 park ave wrote:


And if you suspect your maf is dead, unplug it and crank the car

you know, that would work, IF he had anything other than the 95 SC. there is no MAP sensor to take over on the 95 SC, so that test won't work. It won't like trying to crank with nothing for reference. Swapping in another MAF is about it for troubleshooting...

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lo619
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PostSubject: Re: Cleaned EGR Now car wont start   Tue May 24, 2011 10:47 pm

Well I'm not mad at you. Actually, I'm thankful that you said that because I wouldn't have known. I feel bad because I cleaned a friends MAF out with carb cleaner in her Tacoma..... Guess I owe her a MAF now. bonk

This makes sense because I don't see an EGR failing because of carb cleaner. I found out there's some BS law in cali that we can't rent code readers/scanners anymore and I most def dont have the $$$ for that right now. I'll be picking up a MAF and an EGR at the yard when I get a chance to go. hopefully this week.

Someone said about not splicing the wires and I agree, I don't want to do that but I don't think Ill have the time to mess around at the yard so I'm gonna have to unless I can buy the whole thing new at a good price. I'll just do a good job splicing and ty and get a good insulation, not just tape.

I really appreciate the help guys.... you don't even know!
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Jamax
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PostSubject: Re: Cleaned EGR Now car wont start   Tue May 24, 2011 11:02 pm

Lo, if you've got to splice the wires, at least solder the connections and use shrink wrap tubing. Done reasonably well, this is almost as good as new wiring. Good luck.
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lo619
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PostSubject: Re: Cleaned EGR Now car wont start   Wed May 25, 2011 1:23 am

Jamax wrote:
Lo, if you've got to splice the wires, at least solder the connections and use shrink wrap tubing. Done reasonably well, this is almost as good as new wiring. Good luck.

Yeah, I can, my boss has a soldering iron He'll probably let me use it and i'll pick up some shrink tubing. It's gotta be done right. Hoping they have a few rivs at ecology I'm going tomorrow morning. Can't wait to be.... 3gears
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97 park ave
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PostSubject: Re: Cleaned EGR Now car wont start   Wed May 25, 2011 10:23 am

Karma wrote:
97 park ave wrote:


And if you suspect your maf is dead, unplug it and crank the car

you know, that would work, IF he had anything other than the 95 SC. there is no MAP sensor to take over on the 95 SC, so that test won't work. It won't like trying to crank with nothing for reference. Swapping in another MAF is about it for troubleshooting...

I wasnt aware it was a 95, probably wouldve helped if the OP didnt say he cleaned his MAP with carb cleaner too. I automatically thought series II after that.
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lo619
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PostSubject: Re: Cleaned EGR Now car wont start   Wed May 25, 2011 6:33 pm

I went to the junkyard today and they only had one riv, it was an SC. The EGR and the MAF were already gone. There were alot of buicks with 3800 motors including a Park Avenue with a 3800 SC motor.... It was almost identical. I took the MAF from the Park ave and another 3800.... The one from the park ave looked identical to the riv only the part numbers were all different. I got an EGR from another 3800, I would have took it from the Park Ave but it looked different from the one in my car inm the park ave...... I don't think it's the MAF I tried different combinations and I'm pretty sure it's the EGR. When I swapped for the replacement it ran like shit for about 3-4 seconds lol....... None of the parts match and must be incompatible. I'm not happy right now headbutt shoot
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lo619
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PostSubject: Re: Cleaned EGR Now car wont start   Wed May 25, 2011 6:56 pm

So.... I have 2 MAF sensors here for multiple buicks if anyone is willing to trade them out.
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