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 Starter enable relay on a 95?

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BlownRiv
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PostSubject: Starter enable relay on a 95?   Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:17 pm

Anyone know where it is under the dash? Or what it looks like I cant seem to find it.
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Abaddon
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PostSubject: Re: Starter enable relay on a 95?   Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:20 pm

It's under the IP, left of the steering column mounted on a steel bracket.
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BlownRiv
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PostSubject: Re: Starter enable relay on a 95?   Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:21 pm

Abaddon wrote:
It's under the IP, left of the steering column mounted on a steel bracket.

that reads like my factory service manual happy still can seem to pinpoint because I have no idea what it looks like heh.
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PostSubject: Re: Starter enable relay on a 95?   Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:33 pm

HaHa! Did you pull the knee bolster to have a better look? The wires going to it are

--2 Yellows
--Purple
--Yellow/Black stripe
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BlownRiv
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PostSubject: Re: Starter enable relay on a 95?   Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:10 pm

Thanks for the info I found it. Tucked way up above the other two modules.
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llamalor2112
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PostSubject: Re: Starter enable relay on a 95?   Tue Feb 09, 2016 5:58 pm

The riv has been sitting for what feels like eons now with the no-crank issue. Finally have some time to try again at remedying and am now looking at the starter enable relay...or rather will be trying to get to it as I can't see or even reach a finger up into where it's located without dropping all the module brackets from under the dash first.

Now, I'd simply like to bypass the thing as I've already disabled the entire vats from the car at this point trying to get it to start. My only concern is if I do so will it cut the fuel injectors signal? From reading the fsm they seem to both correlate with the enable relay

Is this something already done that I can emulate simply by splicing the main wires to the relay or am I shooting myself in the foot here?
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LARRY70GS
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PostSubject: Re: Starter enable relay on a 95?   Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:27 pm

With the ignition key in the "Run" position, simply jump from from the solenoid lug where the battery cable connects to the solenoid "s" terminal, and the starter should crank the engine.  If everything else is good, the engine should start. They make a switch with alligator clips to do this, but I used to do it with a screw driver.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/oes-25331?seid=srese1&gclid=CIOGheLq68oCFYQfhgodUGgCTg

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Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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PostSubject: Re: Starter enable relay on a 95?   Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:50 pm

That's the issue, I think my relay is preventing the start as I jumped the starter once and it turned over but still no actual start. Just cranking. Everything has led me down to this relay which I can't get to.

Fsm states it's location to being just above where the orange module is in the below pictures? Somehow...

My biggest dilemma is that I can't remove the big white plastic bracket holding all of these modules and relays in place.
You can see I successfully found one of the fastening bolts, but where the heck are the others .Fsm doesn't show and I'm not small enough to fit well under there to tell



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LARRY70GS
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PostSubject: Re: Starter enable relay on a 95?   Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:48 pm

So you have eliminated V.A.T.S. as being the problem?  If the chip in the key is not read, the fuel pump will not operate and the starter will not crank.

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98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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llamalor2112
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PostSubject: Re: Starter enable relay on a 95?   Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:17 pm

The history is as such:
In August my key got stuck in the run position and I had to swap out the key cylinder with a new one and get a new matching key. However it turned out to be the starter switch that was stuck so the cylinder didn't solve anything. So I installed a new starter switch and the new key cylinder could now turn freely. However, despite having properly matched new chip key, for some reason it wouldn't read (bum key cylinder from factory?) So I wired in a perfectly matched resistor and voila! Car started right up and ran for a few days before stranding me out of town. Tried rewiring the resistor and a few others but no progress. Since then I've replaced the starter and cut out the final bypass wire to the vats module like Aaron did years ago to eliminate his, and yet still no crank.
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LARRY70GS
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PostSubject: Re: Starter enable relay on a 95?   Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:21 pm

llamalor2112 wrote:
The history is as such:
In August my key got stuck in the run position and I had to swap out the key cylinder with a new one and get a new matching key. However it turned out to be the starter switch that was stuck so the cylinder didn't solve anything. So I installed a new starter switch and the new key cylinder could now turn freely. However, despite having properly matched new chip key, for some reason it wouldn't read (bum key cylinder from factory?) So I wired in a perfectly matched resistor and voila! Car started right up and ran for a few days before stranding me out of town. Tried rewiring the resistor and a few others but no progress. Since then I've replaced the starter and cut out the final bypass wire to the vats module like Aaron did years ago to eliminate his, and yet still no crank.

When you turn the key, can you hear the fuel pump prime?

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98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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PostSubject: Re: Starter enable relay on a 95?   Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:23 pm

I hear the fuel pump and the rear seat relay go *click* and then the security light just flashes forever. It will do this on and on forever, doesn't do the 3-min disable or anything like that that I can tell
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LARRY70GS
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PostSubject: Re: Starter enable relay on a 95?   Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:40 pm

I'm just thinking that it still has something to do with the V.A.T.S..  Not sure if it cuts the ignition also.  If the engine has fuel, air, and spark, it should run if you just jump the starter.  Unless this starter enable relay affects the ignition, and injector pulse, you may be wasting your time trying to get to it.

I would follow the trouble tree in the FSM for will not crank, and will not start.

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98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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llamalor2112
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PostSubject: Re: Starter enable relay on a 95?   Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:44 pm

I'll try to remote start again and see if I can't get it to run.

I feel like something got burnt up when the key stuck on originally as the car was running AND turning over for a solid half minute as I struggled to dislodge the key and then run to get a wrench to disconnect the battery. I've been chasing for half a year and keep coming up dry.
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LARRY70GS
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PostSubject: Re: Starter enable relay on a 95?   Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:53 pm

llamalor2112 wrote:
I'll try to remote start again and see if I can't get it to run.

I feel like something got burnt up when the key stuck on originally as the car was running AND turning over for a solid half minute as I struggled to dislodge the key and then run to get a wrench to disconnect the battery. I've been chasing for half a year and keep coming up dry.

Yeah, I sympathize with you. I know the FSM is cumbersome to get through, but the trouble charts are very methodical and will isolate the problem, it just takes awhile to get through. These cars are electrically complicated. The problem with my level control was a single broken wire. I never would have found it without the FSM. Took me 3 days on and off testing with a multi meter. I had to skip around in the manual at times, to figure out what they were asking me to do in some of the steps, but it ultimately led me right to that wire.

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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llamalor2112
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PostSubject: Re: Starter enable relay on a 95?   Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:14 pm

In such regards I've already shot myself in the foot by trying to bypass the vats as in order to begin fsm diagnostics I need to work backwards to put everything back in place before I can start properly checking .

I did just try to remote start it as I hadn't since swapping starters but it's the same as before, it will whirr and then crank to almost run but no actual full start. It almost does feel like lack of fuel perhaps but I do hear the pump prime. As with you, even though I supposedly bypassed the vats, this feels like it's still a related issue which is a bummer
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LARRY70GS
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PostSubject: Re: Starter enable relay on a 95?   Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:54 pm

Check the fuel pressure with the key in the run position. That may reveal something.

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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llamalor2112
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PostSubject: Re: Starter enable relay on a 95?   Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:32 pm

I can check on that later as I'm off to work now but I'm still thinking that relay has to be an issue. It's widely acknowledged as a common problem area in vats-equipped cars and the fact that I can't get the starter to engage from the key means there's an interrupt in the starter enable function since I can jumper it at the solenoid. And further, it still bugs me that when I initially wired in a resistor the car ran normal for a few days until deciding to just not start again all of a sudden. Zero "performance issue" just several good strong starts and then silence.
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