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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: Intake ideas   Intake ideas - Page 2 EmptyTue May 05, 2009 3:58 pm

xxsupergman25xx wrote:
wow thanks for confusin me even more

Anytime! lol
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parrot5254
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PostSubject: Re: Intake ideas   Intake ideas - Page 2 EmptyTue May 05, 2009 6:57 pm

deekster have you ever looked at the intake temps with a gutted box vs a fwi or even a cold air intake and short ram intake for that matter? I feel like your probably right and putting it in the fender would not make a huge difference but it does allow you to use a filter such as the k and n cone filter that would flow a lot better than one that would go in the air box. I think we need to compile some temps and find out the best setup.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Intake ideas   Intake ideas - Page 2 EmptyTue May 05, 2009 7:29 pm

I've measured temps in the fender well. It's not the coolest place to source air, but it's better than the engine bay. The reason the fender well isn't perfect - it's open to the engine bay like Derek said. I've blocked this off with aluminum sheet and saw about 3ºF improvement average. See link:

See thread: http://rivperformance.editboard.com/series-ii-engine-transmission-f4/write-up-installing-fwi-filter-heat-shield-air-scoop-t1209.htm

The simple fact is, the engine makes heat, so the bay is hotter than anywhere else. The radiator absorbs some of it, but most of the air in the bay moves through the radiator, so it's still hot. Some cooler air comes up though the bottom and mixes in, but the result under the hood is warm at best. On hot days, it's very warm at best.

In supercharged application, warm air intakes can actually damage your SC and engine. Here's what Kenne Bell, makers of SC kits for Mustang Cobras, has to say about warm air intakes. These guys should know a thing or two about air intakes for SC cars::

"It is, of course, your decision if you choose for your engine to suck in this hot underhood air with one of these over the counter or "custom" kits. However, these things are not good for our superchargers and we not only don't recommend them, we are warning against the use of them. Look at the facts. 10° of hotter air is equivalent to 1 psi of boost.That means the difference between the fenderwell ambient 70° system and the hot underhood air temp can be an amazing 130° (200°-70°=130°) hotter. That 130° equates to about 13 psi of additional boost (13x10°=130°). So, you thought your engine was only seeing the increased temperature of 100° from 10 psi boost (10x10°=100°). Wrong. It's 100°+130° or 230° plus the ambient. That's the air temp of 23 psi boost! Surprised? Are you getting the picture yet?

The Kenne Bell supercharger - or any supercharger - doesn't like another 130° of air temp that is the fault of someone else's product. Neither does your engine. As the old saying goes, "Don't make your problem my problem." Don't make those "cool air" kit problems Kenne Bell problems. We've had our fill of these things. Lose those lame excuses for an inlet system. Our warranty is void if using one - and we can tell if you did. We apologize for our frank unwavering approach, but the many warnings throughout our literature has failed to curb their use with our supercharger kits - and caused Kenne Bell some expensive warranties.Try sending your supercharger repair bill to one of these "hot air" kit manufacturers and tell them their "hot air" system killed your supercharger. Are these underhood filter kits any less liable than: 1. Tires that split or separate, 2. Wires that catch fire, 3. Sand polluted oil, 4. Spark plug tips that fall off. I think not.There's no warning in the products.They are most certainly detrimental to engine performance. If ANYONE disagrees, get a magazine writer and let's do the tests.

WARNING: It's an accepted known fact that any engine makes more power on cold air than hot air. Use of this product negatively alters the "cool air" design of the stock OEM inlet system and instead inhales underhood "hot air." This device reduces air density (HP and torque), increases the engines tendency to knock/detonate/ping which can result in lost power and potential engine damage, especially with superchargers or turbos. Not recommended for Kenne Bell supercharger kits. Voids warranty."


Read the full scoop here: http://www.kennebell.net/techinfo/general-info/HotAirWARNING.pdf

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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parrot5254
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PostSubject: Re: Intake ideas   Intake ideas - Page 2 EmptyTue May 05, 2009 9:15 pm

wow that is some great info. so it looks like the stock airbox gutted with a higher flow filter seems like the best/ safest way to go with another good option being the fwi with something that doesnt let the hot air from the engine enter the area where the filter is. Has anyone tried using some sort of insulation around the stock air box to help lower temps?
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Intake ideas   Intake ideas - Page 2 EmptyTue May 05, 2009 9:43 pm

I ran the gutted stock box with flat K&N panel for a year or so. Problem is, the stock intake tube isn't the best at flowing mass amounts of air. A smoother, larger diameter intake tube solves this problem. Using a cone also increases filter area to improve flow.

The thing to realize is that a FWI, true CAI (see CAI/FWI link), or stock air box all source their air from the fender well. But the FWI is the one design where the filter is actual in the fender well, so in theory the filter is kept cooler. So the IAT readings for all of these intakes should be about the same, but the stock air box often reads hotter because the plastic box soaks up heat and warms the filter, which warms the incoming air. The FWI reads cooler because of the filter location. A properly insulated CAI is like stock, but the box does a better job to isolate the filter. A short-ram cone open to the engine bay will always read warmer than ambient, imo (having never used one, I don't know for a fact).

When the car is stopped idle, it doesn't matter what kind of intake design you have, things are going to heat up because the car becomes surrounded by hot engine bay air.

If you're thinking of separating the engine bay from the fender well, keep in mind this helps all types of intake designs, since they source the air from the fender well. It's not just necessary when running a FWI. Of course, separating the engine bay and fender well does nothing for a short-ram cone, which sucks air right off the exhaust manifold and radiator.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
1998 Riv
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PostSubject: Re: Intake ideas   Intake ideas - Page 2 EmptyTue May 05, 2009 11:13 pm

Nice to see this reminder... I need to pull out my WINTER underhood K&N intake, and put the stock box back in with my K&N drop in filter.
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xxsupergman25xx
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xxsupergman25xx

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PostSubject: Re: Intake ideas   Intake ideas - Page 2 EmptyWed May 06, 2009 12:02 am

everyone is sayin a dif way is better or the same lol
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Intake ideas   Intake ideas - Page 2 EmptyWed May 06, 2009 8:12 am

From what I read everyone's sayin the same thing - don't order that $20 POS. wink Or if you do, modify it so it's a FWI instead of a short ram.

All the intakes that breath from the fender well are fine. The short ram is different from all the others, because it can damage your engine. Being in south Fla now, you really don't want run that short ram in the summer heat.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
1wickedninja
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PostSubject: Re: Intake ideas   Intake ideas - Page 2 EmptyWed May 06, 2009 9:13 am

my friend has one of these on his 01 monte carlo surprisingly it sounds bad ass but its only the n/a 3.4lt v6. i wouldn't use it on a supercharged riv when u can do a fwi.
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xxsupergman25xx
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xxsupergman25xx

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PostSubject: Re: Intake ideas   Intake ideas - Page 2 EmptyWed May 06, 2009 5:39 pm

so everyone is in conjunction that a FWI is the way to do?
it increases HP or doesnt?
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L67
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PostSubject: Re: Intake ideas   Intake ideas - Page 2 EmptyWed May 06, 2009 6:03 pm

xxsupergman25xx wrote:
so everyone is in conjunction that a FWI is the way to do?
it increases HP or doesnt?

Yes, and it may help reduce knock, something a short ram intake could actually increase.


Last edited by L67 on Thu May 07, 2009 12:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: Intake ideas   Intake ideas - Page 2 EmptyThu May 07, 2009 8:17 am

I made an FWI last year, and I don't think there are any gains other than the sound and the size of your intake tube. Plus there's the added hassle of not having a good place to put your IAT.

I'm back to the stock airbox, gutted and sealed to the fenderwell. This summer I'm going to look at replacing the flexible tube with something un-ridged.
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xxsupergman25xx
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PostSubject: Re: Intake ideas   Intake ideas - Page 2 EmptyThu May 07, 2009 10:40 pm

oooo


Last edited by xxsupergman25xx on Wed May 13, 2009 12:56 am; edited 2 times in total
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TonySmooth89
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PostSubject: Re: Intake ideas   Intake ideas - Page 2 EmptyThu May 07, 2009 10:43 pm

deekster_caddy wrote:
I made an FWI last year, and I don't think there are any gains other than the sound and the size of your intake tube. Plus there's the added hassle of not having a good place to put your IAT.

I'm back to the stock airbox, gutted and sealed to the fenderwell. This summer I'm going to look at replacing the flexible tube with something un-ridged.


I have a good spot.! I really need to get a pic of it....
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xxsupergman25xx
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PostSubject: Re: Intake ideas   Intake ideas - Page 2 EmptyThu May 07, 2009 11:07 pm

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xxsupergman25xx
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PostSubject: Re: Intake ideas   Intake ideas - Page 2 EmptyWed May 13, 2009 12:54 am

BUMP!
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Intake ideas   Intake ideas - Page 2 EmptyWed May 13, 2009 10:07 am

I don't think that shield idea will work. You have to seal off the air source from the engine bay. Hot air will easily move right around that thing.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
RidzRiv
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PostSubject: Intake ideas   Intake ideas - Page 2 EmptyThu Jun 09, 2011 8:05 pm

I put in a 180* thermostat yesterday and now today i have been trying out some things with my intake. I have the stock air box that i have taken out the silencer that goes in between the box and the fender well. Now i tried replacing the stock ducting with a spectre tubing. It is nice because it gets rid of the silencers and you can hear the supercharger whine, but i'm curious if the ductings ridges are any better flow-wise compared to the silencers on the stock ducting. Here is a picture.

Intake ideas - Page 2 2mynnmo

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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Intake ideas   Intake ideas - Page 2 EmptyThu Jun 09, 2011 8:09 pm

Good start. With no other mods down stream, I doubt the ridges on the tube are holding you back. Just opening up the tube diameter and gutting the box is going to flow better than stock. I am assuming you increased the intake diameter?

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
RidzRiv
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PostSubject: Re: Intake ideas   Intake ideas - Page 2 EmptyThu Jun 09, 2011 8:11 pm

I am not exactly sure. i used a 4 inch ducting. What size is the stock one? because it tapers from 3.5 to 4.

also maybe it would be a good idea if i put heat reflective tape around it
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Intake ideas   Intake ideas - Page 2 EmptyThu Jun 09, 2011 9:07 pm

4" is plenty big. You can put reflexive tap on it - won't hurt anything, but looks like you put tape on it. However the gains would be marginal if any. Almost have to use Reflectux foil insulation to see any benefit, and even then it's a very small gain. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
RidzRiv
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PostSubject: Re: Intake ideas   Intake ideas - Page 2 EmptyThu Jun 09, 2011 9:11 pm

Okay thanks for the help. I'm thinking about making the hole in the box that connects to the fender a bit larger and possibly buying a k&n drop in filter. the 60 dollars seems a bit pricey for probaby 1 horsepower ha
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Intake ideas   Intake ideas - Page 2 EmptyThu Jun 09, 2011 9:41 pm

I bet it's more like 5 hp. It's a small % gain, but it's still a gain.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
thor455400
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PostSubject: C.A.I   Intake ideas - Page 2 EmptyWed Jun 05, 2013 7:05 pm

Not sure if this is the right section, due to being a newb on this board, so if needed please move to appropriate spot.

My question is who , if anyone makes a cold air intake for the '95 rivi's, if anyone, or are you guys fabbin them up yourselves?
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robotennis61
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PostSubject: Re: Intake ideas   Intake ideas - Page 2 EmptyWed Jun 05, 2013 7:16 pm

Well Thor,No. The 95 is the odd ball.Most everything performance you have to make yourself. It sux but what ya gonna do?
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