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 Finally got my Riv!!!!! 1995 supercharged

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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: Finally got my Riv!!!!! 1995 supercharged   Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:52 pm

You don't need oil for pressure/leakdown testing, but compression testing requires a few spins of the crank. It _could_ be done without oil if the bearings were well lubed with assembly lube, but personally I wouldn't do that.
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Finally got my Riv!!!!! 1995 supercharged   Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:34 pm

deekster_caddy wrote:
You don't need oil for pressure/leakdown testing, but compression testing requires a few spins of the crank. It _could_ be done without oil if the bearings were well lubed with assembly lube, but personally I wouldn't do that.

Good points.
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PostSubject: Re: Finally got my Riv!!!!! 1995 supercharged   Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:18 am

"Rare" gave me a laugh.

From Wikipedia
"The 3800 was on the Ward's 10 Best Engines of the 20th century list, made Ward's yearly 10 Best list multiple times, and is one of the most-produced engines in history. To date, over 25 million have been produced."

There are probably a million or so L67s.

I can relate. I took my car in with a slight head gasket leak. (slight in that there was still plenty of water in the system and the oil looked normal) After 2 days and $1500, drove 20 miles and it would not idle by itself. The diagnosis was bottom end gone. They credited me $1500 toward a new engine which was nice enough of them but I suspect they made a mistake somewhere. After over 250,000 miles I guess I was due anyway since the rebuilt engine has noticeably more power.

Bottom line is that I do not think it is the engine as much as finding people who know what they are doing.
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Finally got my Riv!!!!! 1995 supercharged   Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:32 pm

sburch23 wrote:
"Rare" gave me a laugh.

From Wikipedia
"The 3800 was on the Ward's 10 Best Engines of the 20th century list, made Ward's yearly 10 Best list multiple times, and is one of the most-produced engines in history. To date, over 25 million have been produced."

There are probably a million or so L67s.

I can relate. I took my car in with a slight head gasket leak. (slight in that there was still plenty of water in the system and the oil looked normal) After 2 days and $1500, drove 20 miles and it would not idle by itself. The diagnosis was bottom end gone. They credited me $1500 toward a new engine which was nice enough of them but I suspect they made a mistake somewhere. After over 250,000 miles I guess I was due anyway since the rebuilt engine has noticeably more power.

Bottom line is that I do not think it is the engine as much as finding people who know what they are doing.

I'm guessing the rebuilder is having an issue related to different versions of the 3800 built in the '90s and differnt technicians whose knowledge of the versions varies (wildly).

Albertj
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designer1962
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PostSubject: Re: Finally got my Riv!!!!! 1995 supercharged   Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:45 pm

And the story continues!!

Well after a month of staring at my car and newly rebuilt engine sitting in the garage, my mechanic finally got them together! The two day job of installing the engine took over a month to complete.

The excitement mounted as we turned the key and felt the engine come alive. Sounded pretty good and then the vibration started as soon as the engine turned over. Within 15 minutes the oil was pouring out of the front cover! This is exactly what happened when the engine failed initially and was sent back under warranty to be repaired!

Am I pissed? You bet!

Anyone have any idea what would cause a crankshaft to be so out of balance that it will vibrate a front oil seal out?

I even installed a new oil pump, timing cover and harmonic balancer on the freshly rebuilt block before installing the engine again.
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PostSubject: Re: Finally got my Riv!!!!! 1995 supercharged   Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:28 pm

ten bucks they got the wrong timing cover on there. the 95 series one 3800 is super finicky about that.
check the engine serial number and match it with the timing cover number.something wrong there? thats the prob.
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designer1962
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PostSubject: Re: Finally got my Riv!!!!! 1995 supercharged   Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:00 am

Your theory sounds feasible. How do I determine if the timing cover is the right one for the block?

This is a remanufctured long block that initially failed after 200 miles. Front oil seal shifted forward from crankshaft vibration causing oil leak. Lower half was redone again by engine builder. (New crank. bearings,& rings) A new oil pump and harmonic balancer put in with a used front timing cover off of a series one (i code engine) in near new condition.

Same failure occured. Vibration immediately on startup, and oil leaking after about 15 minutes running time. None of the work was done by "shade tree" mechanics. All were certified professional techs.
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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: Finally got my Riv!!!!! 1995 supercharged   Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:27 pm

It sounds like the harmonic balancer bolt wasn't tightened properly. The balancer works it's way loose, then flops around and everything goes to hell. Just something to check... it's also possible that the balancer itself needs replacing.
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denim
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PostSubject: Re: Finally got my Riv!!!!! 1995 supercharged   Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:54 pm

This seems a sad story about incompetence and indifference to quality work.
Hoping you shake yourself free of the bozos.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Finally got my Riv!!!!! 1995 supercharged   Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:14 pm

Yeeesh. Sorry to hear of your luck, Harvey. I'm no engine builder myself, so I paid someone to do the job. The payment got me a rebuild with a guarantee the engine will run trouble free for 12 mo or 12k miles.

I hope your guy offered a similar warranty. This shouldn't be costing you any more time or money than it already has. It needs to be fixed, the right way, no questions asked. I can't wait for this to be over with. You need to be enjoying your dream car!

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95Rivo
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PostSubject: Re: Finally got my Riv!!!!! 1995 supercharged   Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:04 pm

Sure sounds like a harmonic balancer problem. On mine the original engine had 2140 crank, got donor engine i rebuilt had 43 series crank. flywheels and balancer are different come to find out, instant vibration that trashes front seal. Easy to check .
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PostSubject: Re: Finally got my Riv!!!!! 1995 supercharged   Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:53 pm

Sorry you spent bucks yet screwed.
I remember back in 1969 my dad paid big bucks to have my 1963 T-Bird 390 engine rebuilt. Drove like a dream for a month, then it crapped out.

When my Riviera broke a belt in Florida during a long distance drive from Ottawa, I got screwed with bad repairs.
Towed off the Interstate to a Jacksonville PepBoys. Six hours, + $900 crap repair. Due to crap repair then took Riv to PepBoys Tampa... More crap repairs, more money time and effort. On return trip to Ottawa stayed in Richmond VA for more PepBoys. Another $600 in auto repairs. Crap work, and they even left a crow bar in my engine compartment.

I filed a complaint with BB in two states (FL & VA) plus country Canada. Took six months but the franchise shop in Florida (Pep Boys) sent me a check for close to $3000 that included my hotel expenses.

My Riviera had an issue. My current mechanic took two months to resolve engine issues after PepBoys crap repairs in two states. My Ottawa mechanic did not charrge me about $2000 in labor while he experimented. MY Riviera now drives like new.

Been driving since 1967, and more than once screwed with auto repairs. If you are not happy with service you received from your mechanic contact BB and contact your state Attorney Generals Office. In the past this worked for me.

My opinion is your mechanic is less than knowledgeable.

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designer1962
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PostSubject: Re: Finally got my Riv!!!!! 1995 supercharged   Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:10 pm

Well my dreamboat story gets better and better!

Got the engine in finally and as soon as they turned the key it started vibrating again and soon the oil leak at the front crankshaft seal began.

I contacted Marshall's Automotive Machine in Maine and told them, and of course heard nothing back. I registered a complaint with the BBB, and they did respond to them. Ready for this? They are saying that this is obviously an installation problem, but they are willing to send me another engine at no charge as long as I go away and have no further dealings with them. This sounds to me that means no warranty! The original warranty was 4 years or 40,000 miles.

My main question is how could this be an installation problem when the engine was installed twice, (initially and after warranty repair) by two different shops having certified mechanics, and no affiliation between them? What are the odds that two shops don't know how to insatl an engine?

I wonder if I will ever get to drive my Riv. In the two years I've owned it now I've managed to get 200 miles on it so far and three engines! That's got to be some kind of record. dunno

Still staying sane.

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PostSubject: Re: Finally got my Riv!!!!! 1995 supercharged   Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:12 pm

Have your attorney demand a crate engine from a reliable source.
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PostSubject: Re: Finally got my Riv!!!!! 1995 supercharged   Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:56 pm

did they ever investigate the timing cover ?
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designer1962
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PostSubject: Re: Finally got my Riv!!!!! 1995 supercharged   Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:05 pm

The installer put a timing cover on it, since the one that they returned after doing the warranty repair had not been touched. It was still scored and had metal in the oil residue. They didn't even bother cleaning it!
I personally picked up the one we used and inspected it. Although used it was in perfect condition and was the correct cover for the engine. I also had a brand new oil pump put in.
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PostSubject: Re: Finally got my Riv!!!!! 1995 supercharged   Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:48 pm

I picked up a timing cover seemingly identical in every way to the original that I fragged by accident.I put it on and the trouble started.I went through 3 or 4 timing cover gaskets before i sed"this cant be right" I called up Morads and asked them if they had a timng cover they could send me? They then asked me for a "casting" number? What ya mean I asked! he told me its important because if you dont match casting numbers the cover wont work.He couldnt remember the particulars of the situation but a customer went thru the same BS and finally figured it out.I guess a dedicated Buick rebuilder would allready know that.
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PostSubject: Re: Finally got my Riv!!!!! 1995 supercharged   Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:41 pm

Hello everyone,

My last post was Aug 18, 2012 and The second rebuild of the engine had failed after starting and running the car only in the garage. Same situation of "walking" crank pushing front oil seal out again.

Well the rebuilder finally admitted he may have put the incorrect crankshaft in the block and agreed to replace it with a new remanufactured engine. Well after him sitting on it for months, he shipped it and the installer I had arranged the installation with also played games with me and it took 3 months before he got the job done. So here it is 2 years and four months since I bought it and I hopefully have a functioning car to continue restoring.

The car runs quite strongly but there is still a vibration somewhere most noticeable when I initially accelerate and seems to disipate as I drive. Keeping fingers crossed that the crankshaft isn't going to start moving in this block.

Now I have a rather unusual thing occuring that the mechanic is blaming on the battery not being charged. All of the lights on the dash, radio, AC display etc start binking on and off. I hear what sounds like the clicking of a turn signal at the same time. It's as if the turn signal switch is taking over everything on the dash. Has anyone heard of this or the explanation of low battery charge?

My engine needs service light is on, and my temp gage shot all the wat over to overheating and then returned to under 200 degrees after driving a few minutes.

Now that I have it back, I plan to start from square one with the "little" things I was attempting to fix two years ago!

More to come.

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PostSubject: Re: Finally got my Riv!!!!! 1995 supercharged   Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:34 pm

Can't hurt to take it to Autozone, they'll scan your light and check your alternator for free. Just a place to start. I think I might be needing a new battery soon, been having issues with it not wanting to start the past few days. Tonight on the way home my lights cut out (even with the manual switch pulled), and the windshield washer fluid/low fuel (have a full tank) lights came on.
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PostSubject: Re: Finally got my Riv!!!!! 1995 supercharged   Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:33 am

One is a thermostat for overheating may have a potential leak belt slippage or maybe a bent fin .... But that sounds like a broken battery cable or a computer which happend too me the other day SES light came on then all the power shut off and a miracle that the car and the rpm gauge speedometer was the only thing still working on my way too work turned the car off and started it back up ... So since it hasnt happend again im praying it was the computers resetting themselves
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PostSubject: Re: Finally got my Riv!!!!! 1995 supercharged   Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:09 am

The lights clicking on and off sounds like a loose connector or bad ground somewhere. Ground points are all over the car, make sure all of the negative cables are connected clean and tight.
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