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 3800 more fun than a barrel full of monkies!

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Ryan from Ohio
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PostSubject: 3800 more fun than a barrel full of monkies!   Fri Jul 15, 2011 9:47 pm

Ok its not a riviera but its the SAME motor.

My Dad picked up a 97 LeSabre for $200. Power steering pump was out. I know its a fun job with everything in the way.

Well the real fun in the intake gaskets were shot- lower and upper. As well as the valve cover gaskets- it was puking oil out the front. Motor however runs strong for 200K miles.

So we got her tore down today in a few hours. Replacing intake gaskets (all), replacing valve cover gaskets and grommets, cleaning MAF, replacing water pump and lastly replacing the best tensioner and pulley.

Which brings me to... Those two lines that go into the belt tensioner assembly, once I get them out where do I get new O-Rings for it??? They are flat and hard so they need to be replaced. I could only get one elbow out. The other is in there good...

fun times!
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robotennis61
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PostSubject: Re: 3800 more fun than a barrel full of monkies!   Fri Jul 15, 2011 10:23 pm

Just go to any auto zone and pick up a assorted box of o-rings. forgot which size fits but match the old to the new.....
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: 3800 more fun than a barrel full of monkies!   Fri Jul 15, 2011 10:41 pm

robotennis61 wrote:
Just go to any auto zone and pick up a assorted box of o-rings. forgot which size fits but match the old to the new.....

Ummm - not necessarily.

Do you think you could look up the coolant elbows on rockauto.com? they will show the Dorman or other part number for them, you can call around and find them it's not hard. Most likely the local Advance or Pep Boys will have them hanging in the HELP section. The elbows come with o-rings.

Why replace them?

They get brittle with age and oil-soaked-dirt, and the one that is stuck in - well - you're as likely as not going to bust it getting it out. So I think it is worth getting rid of the headache and just replacing them... what do you think?

Albertj
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jonly
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PostSubject: Re: 3800 more fun than a barrel full of monkies!   Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:06 pm

don't bother asking the clerk, they're in the self help section:
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/Dorman-Heater-Hose-Fitting?itemIdentifier=484047
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jonly
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PostSubject: Re: 3800 more fun than a barrel full of monkies!   Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:07 pm

and if you get as frustrated as I do, buy 2 while you're at the store.
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robotennis61
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PostSubject: Re: 3800 more fun than a barrel full of monkies!   Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:07 pm

A box of o-rings costs a few bucks. My o-rings worked great,and my inner elbow was also stuck.just twist it out,and then take a scotch brite pad and thoroughly clean out the inner surface.
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97 park ave
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PostSubject: Re: 3800 more fun than a barrel full of monkies!   Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:39 pm

albertj wrote:
robotennis61 wrote:
Just go to any auto zone and pick up a assorted box of o-rings. forgot which size fits but match the old to the new.....

Ummm - not necessarily.

Do you think you could look up the coolant elbows on rockauto.com? they will show the Dorman or other part number for them, you can call around and find them it's not hard. Most likely the local Advance or Pep Boys will have them hanging in the HELP section. The elbows come with o-rings.

Why replace them?

They get brittle with age and oil-soaked-dirt, and the one that is stuck in - well - you're as likely as not going to bust it getting it out. So I think it is worth getting rid of the headache and just replacing them... what do you think?

Albertj

I think youre thinking of the plastic elbows coming from the LIM, i believe the OP is talking about the heater hoses that come off of the tensioner bracket and are held in by a bolt.
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PostSubject: Re: 3800 more fun than a barrel full of monkies!   Sat Jul 16, 2011 4:43 am

97 park ave wrote:
albertj wrote:
robotennis61 wrote:
Just go to any auto zone and pick up a assorted box of o-rings. forgot which size fits but match the old to the new.....

Ummm - not necessarily.

Do you think you could look up the coolant elbows on rockauto.com? they will show the Dorman or other part number for them, you can call around and find them it's not hard. Most likely the local Advance or Pep Boys will have them hanging in the HELP section. The elbows come with o-rings.

Why replace them?

They get brittle with age and oil-soaked-dirt, and the one that is stuck in - well - you're as likely as not going to bust it getting it out. So I think it is worth getting rid of the headache and just replacing them... what do you think?

Albertj

I think youre thinking of the plastic elbows coming from the LIM, i believe the OP is talking about the heater hoses that come off of the tensioner bracket and are held in by a bolt.

Thanks - I made a mistake.

By the way the PS pump is not impossible to wrench on if the car is cool (so you don't get burned on exhaust) and you go after it from under and over the car -- ramps seemed to me to be about right. There is a lot in the way but it helps to reach that one lower bolt with a ratchet and ujoint stub extension. Maybe someone else whose done that R&R will chime in.

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Ryan from Ohio
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PostSubject: Re: 3800 more fun than a barrel full of monkies!   Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:08 am

Al, its real easy to get to with the alternator and belt tensioner assembly out of the way! smile

To get to the pressure line I went thru the wheel well. The LeSabre is a bit larger than the Rivi so it went a little easier.

Ya those linked to parts are not the correct ones. The ones Im talking about have a single bolt into them. We will just get the O Ring kit then I guess. Might be only shot unless we take the elbows in to get one from there loose parts behind the counter.
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PostSubject: Re: 3800 more fun than a barrel full of monkies!   Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:58 am

97 park ave wrote:



I think youre thinking of the plastic elbows coming from the LIM, i believe the OP is talking about the heater hoses that come off of the tensioner bracket and are held in by a bolt.

Ooops
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Ryan from Ohio
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PostSubject: Re: 3800 more fun than a barrel full of monkies!   Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:27 am

The one elbow came out easy. The other is froze up in the housing and NOT coming out.

The one that did come out looks like it has/had some sort of a valve in it. There is plastic, rubber and a spring. Cant tell what it was for sure but it is broken and in pieces.

I hope I can get these parts, cheaply.
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Ryan from Ohio
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PostSubject: Re: 3800 more fun than a barrel full of monkies!   Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:06 pm


http://www.compnine.com/index.php?u=1&year=1997&artnbr=GM08-005&artsfx=1&supplgroup=NULL&catcode=45H&modelcode=H&makecode=B&modelseries=HA&uid=1&modelid=1147577400&capuid=1&majorgroup=08&grouptype=B


4,7 9 & 10- O Rings are the exact same.

Got the GM part numbers from that website. Went to gmpartsdirect and of course... issues... They wanted to charge me $202 to ship two little O Rings the size of a quarter... They wanted $4 to ship the one adapter and then $13 to ship the other... All the shipping adds up- making their total price in excess of what I can pay at the dealer (any locally). So they are out.

GM Parts Giant has the same parts, although a bit more expensive, but their overall shipping is cheaper... Going to try the local dealers Monday. If they dont have it in stock and their prices are the MSRP we will just order from them.
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PostSubject: Re: 3800 more fun than a barrel full of monkies!   Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:11 pm

If we are talking about the same thing,An o-ring is JUST an o-ring! dont matter where its from. Harbour Freight sell a nice little assortment of O-rings for a few dollars .enough to last a few years. if those elbows are made of steel,just clean em up...
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PostSubject: Re: 3800 more fun than a barrel full of monkies!   Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:16 pm

Well one of the elbows wont come out. Its fused to it. The other has a built in check valve which fell to pieces...

The O Rings in the coolant system are all orange- which is a different material than the Buna rubber black ones.
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PostSubject: Re: 3800 more fun than a barrel full of monkies!   Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:38 pm

no.thats just a coating to facilitate instalation. I guess the coolant elbows are different in a series 2. but o-rings are just o-rings.
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PostSubject: Re: 3800 more fun than a barrel full of monkies!   Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:30 pm

O oooooooo i read this O shocked
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Ryan from Ohio
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PostSubject: Re: 3800 more fun than a barrel full of monkies!   Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:48 pm

Actually there is multiple materials used in O Rings. An O RIng is not just an O Ring.

Using the wrong material could and usually does lead to a fast failure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O-ring#Material

I have no issue paying the 5.20$ for each one from the dealer to ensure I have the correct parts.

My Dad managed to get the $35 elbow out of the tensioner tonight! So now all we need is two O Rings and the one elbow w/check valve.

We got the new valve cover gaskets and lower intake gasket back on. Replaced the power steering and water pump also.

I hope this motor lasts him at least 60K miles.= or more. Its been a lot of work in the heat!
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PostSubject: Re: 3800 more fun than a barrel full of monkies!   Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:24 am

for less than $10 bucks,harbour freight sells a Viton o-ring kit. that should take care of all your o-ring needs. Viton is a suitable rubber for coolant
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PostSubject: Re: 3800 more fun than a barrel full of monkies!   Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:25 pm

Another day another dollar.

Got the Plenum on and 95% of the wiring. Had to stop at the alternator bracket because my Dad managed to loose the 90 degree plastic elbow. Its the one someone linked to earlier- so now we gotta buy those tomorrow to.

We should be able to get it fired up tomorrow- if the dealer has the needed elbow.
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PostSubject: Re: 3800 more fun than a barrel full of monkies!   Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:51 am

You can get the elbow in a 2-pack (one of which fits newer brackets) in a 'regular' parts store, under Help! or other brands.
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PostSubject: Re: 3800 more fun than a barrel full of monkies!   Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:11 pm

Well we decided to order parts from Rock Auto. Were not in a massive hurry and his money got tight. So we saved $40 by getting what we needed there.

I did some late night research. It seems that check valve is more of a slow down valve to keep the coolant in the heater core a little longer. I found a site that makes the metal aftermarket tubes for the heater core inlet/outlet off the back of the tensioner bracket. They claim the check valve is not needed.

So now all I need is to get two O Rings from the dealer or elsewhere -118 O Rings, Viton.
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PostSubject: Re: 3800 more fun than a barrel full of monkies!   Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:44 am

Now you have me confused... I thought you were talking about the plastic elbow, not the metal one with the limiter in it.

As far as the "check/slow-down" valve, you are right that it's about velocity. It's also impossible to find. However, even though the dealers don't know it, it was put there in the first place because these yahoos decided to abandon traditional heater cores for aluminum, and the aluminum is more susceptible to erosion just from the physical flow of the coolant... Thus, the slow-downer.
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PostSubject: Re: 3800 more fun than a barrel full of monkies!   Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:43 pm

Well originally we were trying to find the metal ones off the top of the tensionr/alternator bracket. But given the info I found and the fact we were able to get the one out all we need is O Rings.

In the process of working on the car the plastic elbow was lost. So we ordered that from Rock.

The only things we are not able to get are the rubber vacuum line connectors. So today we went to the junk yard. It was hotter than hell out there.

Got everything we need now. Just waiting for deliveries from Rock and that car should be on the road by Friday!

Just out of curiosity we asked the yard how much for my Dads 83 Delta Brougham 4 door car (car being replaced). Was told if we can drive it in (which we can) $3-400

Scrap steel is up until end of month I guess.

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PostSubject: Re: 3800 more fun than a barrel full of monkies!   Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:50 pm

All back together. Purrrrrsssss like a kitten. No leaks.

Check engine light is still on and flashes.

Power steering works now, no issues.
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PostSubject: Re: 3800 more fun than a barrel full of monkies!   Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:17 pm

Ryan from Ohio wrote:
All back together. Purrrrrsssss like a kitten. No leaks.

Check engine light is still on and flashes.

Power steering works now, no issues.

do you mean CEL is on even though you reset it -- or you fixed problems and did not reset CEL yet? ?
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