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 69GSColorado's 1996 Riviera GS -- New Tail Light Design!!!

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charlieRobinson
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PostSubject: Re: 69GSColorado's 1996 Riviera GS -- New Tail Light Design!!!   Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:53 pm

gotta turn the ambers into air intakes/brake cooling vents and relocate turn signals to cornering lamps!

Someone please do this!
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PostSubject: Re: 69GSColorado's 1996 Riviera GS -- New Tail Light Design!!!   Tue Dec 02, 2014 3:25 am

Looks sick. Guys who did it must be very skillful. I wonder if You were ready to 'sell' this idea. I bet many Riv enthusiasts would be interested. I would be personally if I had the Riv.
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Karma
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PostSubject: Re: 69GSColorado's 1996 Riviera GS -- New Tail Light Design!!!   Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:34 am

That's just... wow.

Want to trade one for a Karma blower?

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PostSubject: Re: 69GSColorado's 1996 Riviera GS -- New Tail Light Design!!!   Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:28 am

Karma don't tempt me! I've always wanted one, that's for sure.
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PostSubject: Re: 69GSColorado's 1996 Riviera GS -- New Tail Light Design!!!   Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:33 am

69GSColorado wrote:
Karma don't tempt me! I've always wanted one, that's for sure.

You're gonna need a hell of a lot more than just an FWI to keep that blower in check if you acquire one wink You've got the show, now give it some go....
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PostSubject: Re: 69GSColorado's 1996 Riviera GS -- New Tail Light Design!!!   Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:42 am

Abaddon wrote:

69GSColorado wrote:
Karma don't tempt me! I've always wanted one, that's for sure.


You're gonna need a hell of a lot more than just an FWI to keep that blower in check if you acquire one wink  You've got the show, now give it some go....


For sure! To be fair, I think she's ready for one. FWI, SLP Headers, 3.5" MPS, exhaust, 160 degree thermostat, colder plugs… It's time! Haha
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PostSubject: Re: 69GSColorado's 1996 Riviera GS -- New Tail Light Design!!!   Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:58 am

Didn't even notice the headers! Bonus. The air will get out, throw some more in! twisted twisted

That does look damn good.
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PostSubject: Re: 69GSColorado's 1996 Riviera GS -- New Tail Light Design!!!   Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:15 pm

I'd say you deserve equal credit, the design is awesome!

Nice work, looks amazing! clap

Jbird
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PostSubject: Re: 69GSColorado's 1996 Riviera GS -- New Tail Light Design!!!   Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:28 pm

I'd ditch the 160Ί t-stat if I were you. Been there and done that. Just sayin'...

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'98 SC Riviera • 268k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180Ί t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO • 49k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
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PostSubject: Re: 69GSColorado's 1996 Riviera GS -- New Tail Light Design!!!   Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:50 pm

Holy shit! That looks super good! That is a well done riv man!


AA wrote:
very muscular looking! If there were a Riv GS, it could have very well looked like this. And don't take this the wrong way, but it sort of has a mid-'90s Mustang GT look to it. That's good, because it means you're staying within the styling period of the Riv = OEM-looking cowl hood.

Reminds me of the 1st gen XKR which is totally appropriate also
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PostSubject: Re: 69GSColorado's 1996 Riviera GS -- New Tail Light Design!!!   Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:54 pm

AA wrote:
I'd ditch the 160Ί t-stat if I were you. Been there and done that. Just sayin'...
Yeah I'd run a 180. I have a drilled 160 I use only when I go to the track. It's a 5min job to swap em so no biggie. Ok it takes another 5min to clean the half gallon at most of coolant that comes out but 10min and done.
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PostSubject: Re: 69GSColorado's 1996 Riviera GS -- New Tail Light Design!!!   Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:10 pm

Jag XKR
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PostSubject: Re: 69GSColorado's 1996 Riviera GS -- New Tail Light Design!!!   Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:19 pm

AA wrote:
I'd ditch the 160Ί t-stat if I were you. Been there and done that. Just sayin'...

+1, unless you live on the equator or something.
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PostSubject: Re: 69GSColorado's 1996 Riviera GS -- New Tail Light Design!!!   Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:43 pm

See that's what I originally had in there, until Paul at PRJ performance insisted that I install a 160 degree unit before he tuned it. What are the disadvantages of running a 160?
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PostSubject: Re: 69GSColorado's 1996 Riviera GS -- New Tail Light Design!!!   Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:49 pm

69GSColorado wrote:
See that's what I originally had in there, until Paul at PRJ performance insisted that I install a 160 degree unit before he tuned it. What are the disadvantages of running a 160?

I've had none.....
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PostSubject: Re: 69GSColorado's 1996 Riviera GS -- New Tail Light Design!!!   Tue Dec 02, 2014 3:13 pm

Depending on lots of environmental, tuning, instrument factors you could have reduced fuel economy, driveability, intermittent DTC's, stupid things like that depending on how the PCM reacts to the lower ECT's. It kinda puts things right on that threshold I guess. You can circumvent all that through good tuning but you still have long warmups and stuff. I don't like keeping mine in the cold because for one it keeps you from ever getting really nice hot air from the heater.
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PostSubject: Re: 69GSColorado's 1996 Riviera GS -- New Tail Light Design!!!   Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:04 pm

Here's what I know for sure:

160Ί t-stats can cause massive knock when driven under ~65ΊF ambient. If you're tuned for it (KR activate temp lowered), you're good - you won't risk cracking pistons on a cool day. I'm speaking for '98 models, but could apply to other years.

Here's what I think, but don't really know:

Cylinder wall wear is bad. Everyone knows an engine shouldn't rev high until it's warmed up, and the reason for this is increased wear to the cylinders. "Warmed up" to some folks means after the t-stat opens. Some will wait for oil temp to stabilize. Whatever the case, most agree cylinder wall wear is greater in a cold engine vs. a warm one - how much added wear is where we might disagree.

It depends on what you want from your engine. If you're building a race car and want maximum cooling from the radiator, you could run a 160 t-stat no problem. Even better, run no thermostat at all. With a race car, you'll be rebuilding the engine in a few months anyway.

But if you want a long-life engine for everyday driving, staying closer to the designed 195Ί operating temp is smart. A 180Ί t-stat offers a little insurance against knock, but I'm betting a small amount (I didn't notice any KR reduction using 160 vs. 180). And even with a 180 we'll see a little more cylinder wear over time compared to stock. A 160Ί stat probably gives a tiny bit more KR protection, but with considerably more cylinder wall wear. One source claims a 2X increase in wear switching from 180 to 160Ί t-stat. I don't know if they're right, but I believe they have the right idea.

Read what these guys have to say and decide if a 160Ί t-stat is right for you (keep in mind these guys sell t-stats for a living):

http://performanceunlimited.com/cobravalley_drivetrain/thermostat.html

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 268k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180Ί t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO • 49k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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Karma
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PostSubject: Re: 69GSColorado's 1996 Riviera GS -- New Tail Light Design!!!   Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:55 pm

Jordon,
Those pics in the calendar thread are great!

.. what do you think, GenV?

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PostSubject: Re: 69GSColorado's 1996 Riviera GS -- New Tail Light Design!!!   Fri Dec 05, 2014 9:23 pm

smile


Last edited by 69GSColorado on Sat Dec 06, 2014 3:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: 69GSColorado's 1996 Riviera GS -- New Tail Light Design!!!   Fri Dec 05, 2014 9:31 pm

Karma, I'd love one of your ported blowers. But in all seriousness, I could never trade away my hood. It's been my project for two years, so I'm a little bit attached.
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PostSubject: Re: 69GSColorado's 1996 Riviera GS -- New Tail Light Design!!!   Fri Dec 05, 2014 9:45 pm

I think Karma wants you to make him ANOTHER hood.
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PostSubject: Re: 69GSColorado's 1996 Riviera GS -- New Tail Light Design!!!   Fri Dec 05, 2014 9:58 pm

matt270avian wrote:
I think Karma wants you to make him ANOTHER hood.

bonk
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PostSubject: Re: 69GSColorado's 1996 Riviera GS -- New Tail Light Design!!!   Fri Dec 05, 2014 10:22 pm

Well considering the money I spent to build mine, I don't think that's a possibility either. Maybe one day if I decide to make a mold.
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PostSubject: Re: 69GSColorado's 1996 Riviera GS -- New Tail Light Design!!!   Sat Dec 06, 2014 3:56 am

AA wrote:
Here's what I know for sure:

160Ί t-stats can cause massive knock when driven under ~65ΊF ambient. If you're tuned for it (KR activate temp lowered), you're good - you won't risk cracking pistons on a cool day. I'm speaking for '98 models, but could apply to other years.

Here's what I think, but don't really know:

Cylinder wall wear is bad. Everyone knows an engine shouldn't rev high until it's warmed up, and the reason for this is increased wear to the cylinders. "Warmed up" to some folks means after the t-stat opens. Some will wait for oil temp to stabilize. Whatever the case, most agree cylinder wall wear is greater in a cold engine vs. a warm one - how much added wear is where we might disagree.

It depends on what you want from your engine. If you're building a race car and want maximum cooling from the radiator, you could run a 160 t-stat no problem. Even better, run no thermostat at all. With a race car, you'll be rebuilding the engine in a few months anyway.

But if you want a long-life engine for everyday driving, staying closer to the designed 195Ί operating temp is smart. A 180Ί t-stat offers a little insurance against knock, but I'm betting a small amount (I didn't notice any KR reduction using 160 vs. 180). And even with a 180 we'll see a little more cylinder wear over time compared to stock. A 160Ί stat probably gives a tiny bit more KR protection, but with considerably more cylinder wall wear. One source claims a 2X increase in wear switching from 180 to 160Ί t-stat. I don't know if they're right, but I believe they have the right idea.

Read what these guys have to say and decide if a 160Ί t-stat is right for you (keep in mind these guys sell t-stats for a living):

http://performanceunlimited.com/cobravalley_drivetrain/thermostat.html

I really cannot fathom how that 20 degree difference at max would appreciably increase cylinder wall wear. That's just not issue for this engine. That website posts that graph like it's matter-of-fact for everybody but where are they generating this info from? It leaves a LOT to be asked in terms of the data. I'm not saying they're completely full of it but pretty much I'd disregard it for late 3800 purposes. Anyway if it's summer, I don't see 160 for very long when the drilled 160 tstat is in. Once the engine thoroughly warms up, it's hangin around 170 or so even with the fans kicking on earlier. Not running a thermostat at all would be no good. The cooling system needs that restriction & pressure to work optimally. For one, pressure increases the boiling point of the coolant.

The tuning aspect of it is a chief point though. I would say it's a requirement to be able to change the tune for it. The benefit is greater if you adjust fans and such to help hold that lower temperature. AA mentioned the coolant temp requirement for the KR system. Easy - lower it to a number that agrees with the lower ECT you get. The older tunes require 104F ECT for KR to work. There's tons of critical stuff that references ECT in the tune but very little where there's a difference between this 160-180 degree range.

AA why do you say ~65Ί ambient?
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PostSubject: Re: 69GSColorado's 1996 Riviera GS -- New Tail Light Design!!!   Sat Dec 06, 2014 3:09 pm

Hey guys, I thought I'd share my blog post with you today. It details the story behind my hood.


I'm going to stray from my theme of budget performance builds this week, because I simply have to share with you the details and pictures from my latest project. In the late summer months of 2013, I started sketching out the designs for the world's first eighth generation Buick Riviera hood. I had already added many tasteful exterior modifications to my 1996 Riviera, but it hadn't quite reached the "menacing" appearance that I had in mind. Since my car was already in such nice shape, I didn't want to risk ruining the factory hood if my design didn't work out as planned. So I called around to different salvage yards and found one located in Jonesboro, Arkansas, about 1.5 hours from my hometown for $75. It was white, but that wouldn't matter, as the hood had to be painted anyway. In addition to a smooth raised 2" cowl in the center of the hood, I wanted to install hood vents to give the car a little more attitude. I finally settled on a pair from the 2007-2014 Jaguar XKR, which had "supercharged" embossed on the vents. There would be no question now what lurked beneath the bonnet of this blown Buick.

I took the hood to a body shop my grandfather recommended, and the owner seemed more than ready take on the challenge. He wanted me to order a steel cowl from Summit Racing that he would shape and fasten to the hood for the center section. Since my hood was aluminum and the cowl was steel, I knew there would be no easy way to fasten the two together. But since he was the expert, I went ahead and ordered the part and hoped for the best. During Christmas break, I stopped back by to check on his progress over the last six months and was extremely disappointed to see that very little had been done. I wanted my cowl to flow with the body lines of the car, and the steel cowl simply wasn't working. He tried splitting in down the middle to give it the shape I wanted, but it looked nothing like the design I had developed. It looked as if he had spent maybe an hour on the project at most. I told him again how I wanted it to look, and said I'd be back in another six months to hopefully pick up the hood. When I came back in July 2014, I was irate to find it exactly as I left it. I told him I'd be back in the morning to pick up the hood since he obviously was no longer interested in the project.

Luckily, two good friends of mine had recently opened up a new body shop in town and were eager for work. I showed them the so called "progress" the previous shop had done on the hood, and they couldn't believe the poor level of workmanship. The $160 steel center section was now scrap metal, and it was the wrong choice of material for the center section to begin with. I showed them a picture of the design I wanted, and by the end of the day, the cowl shape was already formed. Instead of trying to bond steel to aluminum, they made the shape for the cowl out of foam and sanded the edges smooth so it wouldn't look obnoxious and out of place on a Buick luxury coupe.

After the foam had been sanded down to the proper height, they added many layers of fiberglass over the top for structural rigidity. The holes for the vents were then cut, and the internal structure of the hood had to be modified slightly for the vents to sit flush. After leaving the hood out in the sun during business hours, they noticed that the foam was expanding in the heat and warping the shape of the cowl. As a result, they cut a hole in the backside of my hood and removed the foam. The hood was then sanded smooth, primed and painted Medium Red Garnet Metallic to match the color of my Riv. On November 27, 2014, I drove my car out of the body shop with the new hood installed. It had been one year and six months since the project started, but it was definitely worth it. They were able to take my design and bring it to life. Grandma’s Sunday cruiser had officially been transformed into a menacing, muscular machine that any automotive enthusiast can appreciate.

























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