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Rebekahssm
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Name : Rebekah
Age : 46
Location : WV
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PostSubject: Please HELP   Please HELP EmptyFri May 11, 2007 9:02 am

I have a 95 Supercherged Riv that had to have the motor replaced. So I go to the garage with a good rate and fast turnaround since I am in college and short on both time and money. Lesson learned: if they aren't that busy and they are not on the average rates RUN! I get my car back and it has a ticky noise and a whole body shimmy to rival Gypsy Rose Lee. Mechanic goes out of business that week shocked . He said all rebuilt motors were like that and it would smooth out in a hundred miles or so. Stop laughing, I learned my lesson.So I go to another garage for 500 mile service and complain that problem is STILL there. Actually, when cruisin in traffic over 35mph, when you let off the gas to let the car slow down on its own coming to a red light (I like to save my brakes) the shimmy would turn into a hard vibration all the way through the steering column. I have now been told that the car needs a new supercharger (no problem there, bought one) But some are saying my car is one of the flukes with a version I and dipwad meachanic ordered/installed a ver. II. GM cannot tell me ????WHICH motor I am supposed to have. I know from the build sheet that my car was one of the very first ones built; it was built first week of June, 1994. I thought that I had read somewhere that the ver. II was not put into use until October. WOuld this not mean my car is most definitely a ver. I?? GM says to go by oil pan bolts or original motors crank casting no. Original motor is now gone and current mechanic wants definitive answers before he proceeds. I have been without my car for five months now trying to 1) find a mech who wont jerk me around AND is competent and 2) trying to find these answers. If anyone out there has ANY insight, suggestions, PLEASE help me! Thank you all for taking the time to read this.
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Mr.Riviera
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Mr.Riviera

Name : Matthew
Age : 33
Location : Florida
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PostSubject: Re: Please HELP   Please HELP EmptyFri May 11, 2007 9:43 am

the 95's with the supercharger had the series I engine (RPO L23 i think, but dont quote me)
it is rare for a supercharger to go bad, so im not doubting the mechanics diagnostics, just letting you know thats not common.
the vibration could be from the wrong engine being put in your car, ie if he installed a series II botttom end with your series I s/c and the mounts/brackets didnt line up.
what all did you get replaced? tranny? top end? bottom end? supercharger? wire harness?

off topic but your s/n is Rebekah, so i'm guessing female? that makes you the 2nd female riv owner here! welcome hi

_________________
1996 with 254k miles, L32 4" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs. -RIP
AMG C400 White on black -daily
Please HELP Dsc_0110
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Rebekahssm
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Name : Rebekah
Age : 46
Location : WV
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PostSubject: help   Please HELP EmptyFri May 11, 2007 10:02 am

Hi!, Yes I am A girl. I am a kind of a gearhead, being the ONLY girl with car crazy brothers. The only things replaced were the block and the water pump because it "looked questionable" by "Jeanyus" mechanic no.1 At garage two, they found that the noise stopped when the supercharger was disconnected and so pronounced it dead/dying. The shimmy never stopped though and they said it seemed to be coming from the bottom end. They had my car for months, promising to fix it. I finished my semester and had it towed out of there this past Tuesday because they wouldn't even call the motor manufacturer (I had to) and NOTHING had been done to my car since diag. in Jan.. I do like that this new mechanic, who OWNS the business and building and retired from teaching auto mechanics, is trying to get all the ducks in a row before proceeding. Thanks for your comments, anything more you have would be appreciated.
BTW Your car is just too....too many adjectives to list! cyclops (I have been drooling over it all over this site.) REALLY wanted the pearl white on chrome or the black on chrome but my budget set me with an acceptable champagne. Maybe one day I can trade up.
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SpaceBar
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PostSubject: Re: Please HELP   Please HELP EmptyFri May 11, 2007 10:04 am

Mr.Riviera wrote:
off topic but your s/n is Rebekah, so i'm guessing female? that makes you the 2nd female riv owner here! welcome hi

3rd female. Jen and Zebter? are already here. wink
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Rebekahssm
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Name : Rebekah
Age : 46
Location : WV
Joined : 2007-05-11
Post Count : 21
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PostSubject: Re: Please HELP   Please HELP EmptyFri May 11, 2007 10:14 am

I forgot to mention that the auto parts store where my motor was ordered says that the ver. II is right for ALL 1995 models, but my research shows otherwise.
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AA
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Name : Aaron
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PostSubject: Re: Please HELP   Please HELP EmptyFri May 11, 2007 10:31 am

The supercharged engine is called a "Series I", while the naturally aspirated is the "Series II". Might explain the confusion.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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Brad95Riv
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Brad95Riv

Name : Brad
Age : 40
Location : Wisconsin
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PostSubject: Re: Please HELP   Please HELP EmptyFri May 11, 2007 4:37 pm

The noise that your mechanic heard may have just been the coupler. It's pretty common for it to go bad, but the good thing is that it's cheap (MUCH cheaper than the whole supercharger!). I assume that he would have a mechanic's stethoscope, and he should pretty easily be able to pinpoint the noise in the nose of the supercharger.

That wouldn't cause the vibration, but it's definitely possible that it's the source of your noise...
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Jack the R
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Jack the R

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PostSubject: Re: Please HELP   Please HELP EmptyFri May 11, 2007 10:32 pm

IMO the #1 reason for modding a vehicle is learning how it works so you can spot shifty mechanics who don't know their $h!† and avoid trouble like this. I hit a real loser excuse for a mechanic when I had my alignment done and it ended up taking a month to get a 30 minute job done.

AA wrote:
The supercharged engine is called a "Series I", while the naturally aspirated is the "Series II". Might explain the confusion.

Wouldn't that be "Series I Supercharged?"

Rebekahssm - The supercharged Riviera's had an engine upgrade in 97. Supercharged 95-96 Rivieras have the "Series I Supercharged" motor. Supercharged 97-99 Rivieras have the "Series II Supercharged" motor. I am not as familiar with the un-supercharged (normally aspirated) Rivieras. According to what Aaron said (and he's probably right), the Riv would have started production with the unsupercharged "Series II" engine. That makes sense, it would have taken GM a couple years to develop the supercharged version of the "Series II" motor.

At any rate, what you should have is a "Series I Supercharged" motor. One of the guys should be able to tell you what the engine code is. I believe it is "L36" but I may be wrong.
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Mr.Riviera
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Mr.Riviera

Name : Matthew
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PostSubject: Re: Please HELP   Please HELP EmptyFri May 11, 2007 10:41 pm

actually the 96's had the series II engine.
L36 sounds right for the 95 series I engine with the early generation supercharger, and IIRC the RPO for the N/A series II is L23.
L67 for the 96+ s/c engines with the gen 3 supercharger, and L32 for the newest series II engines with the generation 5 superchargers. someone correct me if i'm wrong.

_________________
1996 with 254k miles, L32 4" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs. -RIP
AMG C400 White on black -daily
Please HELP Dsc_0110
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Jack the R
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Jack the R

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PostSubject: Re: Please HELP   Please HELP EmptyFri May 11, 2007 10:43 pm

Maybe I don't have a clue on the engine code thing. Wikipedia makes it sound like Series I and II Supercharged motors were both designated "L67."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick_V6_engine

See the caption underneath the pic of the 95 Series I SC engine.
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Mr.Riviera
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Mr.Riviera

Name : Matthew
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PostSubject: Re: Please HELP   Please HELP EmptyFri May 11, 2007 10:51 pm

oops i ment L27 not L23 (dont know what L23 is lol)
also the N/A 96+ engines were the L36.

from the wiki site- "L67 is the supercharged version of the Series II L36 and appeared in 1996"

but you're right the caption showing the 95 s/c riv says L67 scratch
can anyone clear this up?

_________________
1996 with 254k miles, L32 4" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs. -RIP
AMG C400 White on black -daily
Please HELP Dsc_0110
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steel2040
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PostSubject: Re: Please HELP   Please HELP EmptySat May 12, 2007 8:10 am

we all know that naturaly assperatied would of had to of been completely rebuilt seeing how the rods and pistions lengths are diffrent from the sc to non but the block itself is the same. and as the shuttering goes im not quite sure alot of us get it does it shutter around 1800 to 2500 rpms? and in od?
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AA
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AA

Name : Aaron
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PostSubject: Re: Please HELP   Please HELP EmptySat May 12, 2007 12:37 pm

Jack, your reasons for modding are, imo, very valid. Most people on this board already know more than many mechanics about Riviera-specific info, and car salesmen, too. I remember when shopping for cars in '03, I was told a Toyota Solara could not be had with both V6 and manual trans (wrong, the model is called the SE), that the Chysler 300M was RWD (wrong again, the orientation of the 3.5L makes it look that way, though), and finally, that there were no differences between '95-99 Rivieras (wrong, wrong, wrong!!!). So no, it's not always about going fast... It's about gaining knowledge and troubleshooting problems easily. Without forums like this one and RegalGS.org, I could not afford to maintain my Riviera, let alone make it run high 13s reliably.

(getting off podium now)

quote: "Wouldn't that be "Series I Supercharged?" "

What I meant was, for her year ('95), any engine called Series I is the supercharged, while the Series II is the N/A. The Series II supercharged didn't arrive for the Riviera until '96, and the Series I NA wasn't used in the '95 Riv.

quote: "L36 sounds right for the 95 series I engine with the early generation supercharger, and IIRC the RPO for the N/A series II is L23."

My sources indicate the '95 Series I is an L67. L36 refers to the Series II NA version. L27 is the Series I NA.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
Rebekahssm
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Name : Rebekah
Age : 46
Location : WV
Joined : 2007-05-11
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PostSubject: Re: Please HELP   Please HELP EmptySat May 12, 2007 1:00 pm

joy My Ver I has been delivered to garage!!!! I am actually in the home stretch! (I hope!) The new sc is in the trunk. I could actually have my car back in the next week!!!!! I'm singing the happy happy joy joy song now.
The last garage got the car Dec. 22, piddled at diagnostics until mid Jan. and then DID nothing!! My car was a hostage cause they knew I did not want to pay for diag. only to take it somewhere else and pay again. headbutt And they kept promising to do the warranty/motor calls and work. I went and got it Wed. and they knew the polite girl was gone. evil they were smug when they asked if I had a tow truck. I did. Right out front. He just looked disgusted and said "keys are in it" Knew better than to hand me a bill obviously. ( I was looking at about $300). It is really interesting that he commented when I first brought it in that he had one in his yard and could not find parts for it. He also kept discouraging all my efforts and suggested that I SELL the car. Can you guess my response? He never made an offer himself, but it is all pretty strange. I guess he can't find parts for his because he doesn't want them as much as I do. Or he's just stupid.
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AA
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AA

Name : Aaron
Age : 42
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PostSubject: Re: Please HELP   Please HELP EmptySat May 12, 2007 1:04 pm

I know how it feels to be without your Riv. I've been away from mine for two weeks now after some guy blew a light and slammed into my door. Just keep reminding yourself... the waiting will be worth it when you get her back!

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
SpaceBar
Aficionado
SpaceBar

Name : Patrick
Age : 33
Location : Quincy, MA
Joined : 2007-04-08
Post Count : 1199
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PostSubject: Re: Please HELP   Please HELP EmptySat May 12, 2007 5:12 pm

Mr.Riviera wrote:
and L32 for the newest series II engines with the generation 5 superchargers. someone correct me if i'm wrong.

Its a Series III then. I think they started in 04 for that?
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Jack the R
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Jack the R

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PostSubject: Re: Please HELP   Please HELP EmptySat May 12, 2007 6:14 pm

steel2040 - I don't get any shuddering at all under any conditions. Something is messed up.


AA
Quote :
My sources indicate the '95 Series I is an L67. L36 refers to the Series II NA version. L27 is the Series I NA.

Wikipedia also said the Series I Supercharged was an L67. WTF?! So Series I and II Supercharged are L67s and Series III Supercharged is L32? GM needs to work on its naming conventions.

Quote :
Without forums like this one and RegalGS.org, I could not afford to maintain my Riviera, let alone make it run high 13s reliably.

I wasn't thinking about the cost of maintenance, but you're right, these car forums have saved me a lot of money in parts and mechanics fees. God only knows what would have happened if I'd let a mechanic change my belts. They'd probably have put on the wrong sized Gates belt and I would have had it or a pulley break on me. And we would all be going through the same series of pulley failures you went through.

Rebekahssm - Check out this write-up and be sure to get on top of the belts/pulleys if you are at 85,000 miles or higher.
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AA
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AA

Name : Aaron
Age : 42
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PostSubject: Re: Please HELP   Please HELP EmptySat May 12, 2007 6:19 pm

When I started this board, I thought the Series I supercharged was a version of the L27, but a '95 Riv owner set me straight. Now they could've been wrong, but I figured they know more than I about their car. If anyone knows for sure, please share. Wikipedia is not always right.

Speaking of belts, does anyone know it the Series I supercharged has the same issues with changing, and do they wear out at the same rate? I know there are some differences in belt routing and pulleys.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
oldsman105
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oldsman105

Name : Enrique Patino
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PostSubject: Re: Please HELP   Please HELP EmptySat May 12, 2007 8:27 pm

To clear some confusion

Yes the Series 1 L67 Supercharged was called the L67, This was later replaced by the Series 2 Supercharged (also named L67) , And the N/A series 2 availble in 95-97 rivieras is the L36.

The series 1 belts last as long as the series 2 and easier to change.
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AA
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AA

Name : Aaron
Age : 42
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PostSubject: Re: Please HELP   Please HELP EmptySat May 12, 2007 8:34 pm

Thanks. What about idler and tensioner pulleys? Ever heard of them fragging at 85-100k miles?

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
Rebekahssm
Amateur


Name : Rebekah
Age : 46
Location : WV
Joined : 2007-05-11
Post Count : 21
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PostSubject: Re: Please HELP   Please HELP EmptySat May 12, 2007 10:21 pm

AA wrote:
I know how it feels to be without your Riv. I've been away from mine for two weeks now after some guy blew a light and slammed into my door. Just keep reminding yourself... the waiting will be worth it when you get her back!
Oh man! I am sooooo sorry! That is what happened to my first one. Actually, a crack head took out my truck AND my Riv at the same time while they were parked in front of my house. The truck looked worse and had to be taken out on a flatbed and my husband drove the car to work that night! He took it by the body shop for estimates and they TOTALED the car because the sheet metal /body panels are at a premium and added up to more than 80% of the cars value. Oh yeah...I had only had it for 13 days. The only pictures I have are of the carnage that fateful morning and were taken for my insurance company. I really hope that yours doesn't have that much damage. It's heartbreaking, even if you do get another one. Although if it has been two weeks, you would have heard that dreaded news by now, I would think anyway. Let us know when she comes home.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Please HELP   Please HELP EmptySat May 12, 2007 10:25 pm

Everything is working out so far. Here's a thread to keep you posted:

http://rivperformance.editboard.com/Discussion-c4/Riviera-Talk-f21/Change-of-plans-t775.htm

Now, we need to get yours back up and running!

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
Rebekahssm
Amateur


Name : Rebekah
Age : 46
Location : WV
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PostSubject: Re: Please HELP   Please HELP EmptySat May 12, 2007 10:46 pm

Jack the R wrote:
steel2040 -
Rebekahssm - Check out this write-up and be sure to get on top of the belts/pulleys if you are at 85,000 miles or higher.

Thanks! actually bought it with 82K and she whined so much on the way home from PA she was in for belts the next day. BUT I was told that the pulleys are nearly worn through and will have to be replaced with the block and sc. By the time I get done, I will have a brand new 12 year old car. I have also done the front hubs and shocks and a set of Michelin hydo edge that look like they were designed for the car. can't wait to get through this so I can start dressing and tweaking her.

I have had to learn so much about this car, I started a notebook in my one note program just for the car. I added the info above for future reference.
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Rebekahssm
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Name : Rebekah
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PostSubject: Re: Please HELP   Please HELP EmptySat May 12, 2007 11:02 pm

Was told by motor co. today that the 'shimmy' is from the harmonic balancer not wanting to work with the series II.
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Brad95Riv
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PostSubject: Re: Please HELP   Please HELP EmptyTue May 15, 2007 7:24 am

oldsman105 wrote:
To clear some confusion

Yes the Series 1 L67 Supercharged was called the L67, This was later replaced by the Series 2 Supercharged (also named L67) , And the N/A series 2 availble in 95-97 rivieras is the L36.

The series 1 belts last as long as the series 2 and easier to change.

Correct on both points. smile My owner's manual specifically calls the Series I Supercharged engine the L67. And the belts are easy to change, lucky for us! lol
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Riviera Performance ::   Supercharged 3800 Tech :: Series I Engine & Transmission-
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