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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Cams & Rockers   Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:37 pm

The whole thing changes when you say you're not changing shift points. One of the advantages to rockers is a torque increase in the upper RPM. The rockers don't enable you to rev higher (springs + OR rods do that, and rollers help), but more gains are accessible up top, so most people raise shift points a few hundred RPM to get the added HP.

If you don't shift higher, you can probably run 1.9:1 and be just fine. The higher lifts will be noticeable as a power bump between 3900-5500 RPM.

If you run the 1:84 or 1:80 ratio, the bump won't be as noticeable, especially since you aren't revving as high. I recommend 1.9:1 because the price of rockers is the same, even though springs and rods are required. But if you aren't revving high, it's really the same price - night as well go with higher ratio, IMO.

Having said that, the first time somebody locks out the gears in 1st or 2nd and revs to 6 grand you will likely float the valves. Not good. If I were you I'd be sure the rev limiter is set to a safe value so this never happens.

Re: OR pushrods, the only difference is the oiling holes are smaller to prevent oil from leaving the pan at high RPM. Valve train gets plenty of oil. It's the bottom end that gets deprived.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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Z-type
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PostSubject: Re: Cams & Rockers   Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:10 pm

I suppose I'm not opposed to changing shift points, I'm just not going for an all-out performance car. But from what I gather from your explanations and descriptions, it's stupid not to do the 1.9's.

The only thing holding me back from 1.9's is the springs. I do NOT trust anyone to do work like that on my car except me. I'm sure I'm perfectly capable of it but I've never done it before, and I know it's sensitive work somewhat. But again, you're right about the price lol.

I suppose I would need assistance from someone tuning as well, since I don't have a tuner at this point.

I think I should just do the 1.9's - seems logical in the end. Tell you what, Aaron - tell me what tools I need for the springs and we'll make a day of it:D.
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Sir Psycho Sexy
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PostSubject: Re: Cams & Rockers   Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:47 pm

I am running the 1.9:1 Yella Terra RRs. The kit i bought from zzp came with pushrods, and i went for the 90# ls6 springs. The engine runs incredibly smooth and seems to pull through the mid/upper RPMs quite a bit better than stock.

I just rented a valve spring compressor from the local parts store.
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PostSubject: Re: Cams & Rockers   Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:34 pm

The rockers are an easy bolt on. But the springs does add a twist. You need to get an air chuck spark plug adapter and hold the valves closed while you are changing the springs. It's really not that hard.

I had HS 1.9 RRs and LS6 springs, and used the stock pushrods with no problem.

Initially you won't need any additional tuning - the engine will be pulling a little more air before it's shift, and the MAF readings will compensate for that. After you bump your shift points up you'll want to scan carefully but it's all within range.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Cams & Rockers   Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:47 am

Look up the rocker installation write-up. It's an oldie but goodie. I can send you a spring compressor tool and fitting for compressing the cylinders if you send them back.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
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PostSubject: Re: Cams & Rockers   Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:25 pm

Thank you everyone. My next question was 'which springs?' but I suppose 105s would have been a bit much.

Just read through the Write-up again Aaron (went through it quick a few months ago) and it seems pretty straightforward. I like the idea of putting twist ties around the valves lol - that's something I would definitely do because I'm paranoid about those things.

Alright it's settled - 1.9 Yella Terras with 90# springs and new OR pushrods.

Thank you for the tool offer Aaron! I will certainly take you up on that once I get the rockers!

You guys are awesome.
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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: Cams & Rockers   Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:27 pm

For the money, you aren't too far away from a cam install. Which you are going to want anyway! Just something to keep in mind... twisted
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Z-type
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PostSubject: Re: Cams & Rockers   Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:30 pm

Haha no cam for me...I didn't even think I wanted to go this far with the rockers!

Though I do like the 'ol lope..........
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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: Cams & Rockers   Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:35 pm

A VS cam is much better than a rocker install, and no lope. Very very streetable. Made to run on a stock valvetrain.
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charlieRobinson
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PostSubject: Re: Cams & Rockers   Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:28 pm

LOL

Rockers, nah, do a VS cam, nah, might as well do an XP cam, nah, might as well go ported heads and stage 4 cam, WHEN DOES THE MADNESS END!?
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Johnny5
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PostSubject: Re: Cams & Rockers   Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:27 am

Lol right after you loose all your money ,and have no sanity left then your stuck with what? A dream
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Cams & Rockers   Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:41 pm

Cams are great, but there's plenty of good in bolt-on mods, like simplicity. Less chance for messing things up unless you have the experience and know exactly what you want. In general, bolt-ons = more daily driving friendly; at least that's the perception. Bolt-ons are better for resale, too.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
Z-type
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PostSubject: Re: Cams & Rockers   Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:46 pm

That's pretty much what I was thinking - and as little down time as possible. I'm ok for taking a day or two to do something because on nice days I have other cars to drive if need be. I don't disagree with the idea of a cam, but it's just more work than I want to do for a daily driver.

I was going to start saving for rockers but it looks like I have a great shot at me and my fiance getting a house. House comes first (hopefully) !
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highwaywarrior
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PostSubject: vs cam   Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:14 pm

hey anyone running a vs cam or any cam in general other than stock? whats it like? supporting mods?
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charlieRobinson
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PostSubject: Re: Cams & Rockers   Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:45 pm

Z-type wrote:
That's pretty much what I was thinking - and as little down time as possible. I'm ok for taking a day or two to do something because on nice days I have other cars to drive if need be. I don't disagree with the idea of a cam, but it's just more work than I want to do for a daily driver.

I was going to start saving for rockers but it looks like I have a great shot at me and my fiance getting a house. House comes first (hopefully) !

Bro, you can sleep in your car but you can't race in your house..
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stan
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PostSubject: Re: Cams & Rockers   Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:10 am

Haha.....
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PostSubject: Re: Cams & Rockers   Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:58 am

Haha no, but when the property includes a 9-car garage with a lift inside, priorities change.

Regardless, rockers will come someday soon!
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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: Cams & Rockers   Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:44 am

highwaywarrior wrote:
hey anyone running a vs cam or any cam in general other than stock? whats it like? supporting mods?
VS cam works nicely and doesn't require any other valvetrain changes. If you like you can change to a better spring, but technically the VS can was designed for an otherwise stock valvetrain.

I have the VS cam and a GenV supercharger with Headers and it is a nice potent streetable combination. I can make a great deal of power on a 3.4 pulley and have to be extra careful with tuning/timing/KR and extra octane for the 3.2 pulley to be safe. I typically only put my 3.2 pulley on at the track.
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PostSubject: Re: Cams & Rockers   Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:50 pm

I've wussed out - I'm doing the Yella Terra 1.8's instead of the 1.9's. I just don't want to get into changing springs and stuff on a DD car. I'll be ordering them after the new year!

In the mean time, a PLOG and crossover are on their way!
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bmcd9179
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PostSubject: Re: Cams & Rockers   Sun Dec 22, 2013 5:33 pm

Hey where are you getting your 1.8 yella, rockers? I want some to!
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Z-type
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PostSubject: Re: Cams & Rockers   Sun Dec 22, 2013 6:18 pm

I am going to get them at Intense. They've served me well many times in the past!
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PostSubject: Re: Cams & Rockers   Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:38 pm

No wussing out. I did the same (and my Riviera is my daily driver also).

Believe me, you will notice a difference at the top end/higher rpm. happy
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PostSubject: Re: Cams & Rockers   Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:25 am

Ash wrote:
No wussing out. I did the same (and my Riviera is my daily driver also).

Believe me, you will notice a difference at the top end/higher rpm. happy

How much of a difference? Like,"Holy shit!" difference?
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PostSubject: Re: Cams & Rockers   Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:45 am

Yah Is it worth 400 bucks? Or should I spend 550 and get springs and 1.9 cause I wanna holy shit!! Haha
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PostSubject: Re: Cams & Rockers   Mon Dec 23, 2013 3:55 pm

robotennis61 wrote:

Ash wrote:
No wussing out. I did the same (and my Riviera is my daily driver also).

Believe me, you will notice a difference at the top end/higher rpm. happy


How much of a difference? Like,"Holy shit!" difference?

Not quite a divine difference. More like a "Yeah, I like" difference. The car/engine just pulls better in the higher rpm.
If I recall, I installed my front Plog, and crossover pipe during the same time. (I was also changing out the lower intake manifold gaskets for the metal body ones.)
The Hogan down-pipe w/high flow cat came about a year later.

Aaron could perhaps fill you in on the 1.9's w/ls valve springs. (I didn't go that route, because I didn't feel like it. 1.8's w/stock springs was good enough for me.)
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