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 Write-Up: Subframe/Cradle Mount Insulators & Bushings

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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Subframe/Cradle Mount Insulators & Bushings   Sat May 16, 2015 5:27 pm

LARRY70GS wrote:

Abaddon wrote:
I'm sure the Dormans will work just fine, however I must point out that the different locations have different durometers and are listed as such in the GM parts catalog. I forget who I did this for exactly, but here are the P/N's listed for the bushings in each location.....



I do remember ordering all the parts from GM, but I don't remember noticing the part numbers were different for the different positions.  They all looked exactly the same, and felt the same to me.  I ended up only changing the rear 4, 2 on each side.  My front ones were mint, so I couldn't see changing them.  The front ones are protected by the front splash shield so they were not corroded at all.  I left them.  I did the Addco sway bars at the same time.  My car rides and handles better than it ever did.  Rick, I'm sure the Dorman parts will work just fine.  I would look at your front 2 mounts, they may be fine as mine were.

Thanks for the info Larry. I plan on looking at all of the mounts including the 2 in the front under the splash shield.
Did you have to loosen the 2 bolts up front before being able to drop the cradle enough to replace the 4 in the rear.?
From what I've read in this thread, that's what's required.
Hope the front's are good, but if not, I'll just have to get the parts from GM unless someone on here has the extra parts.
Rick
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LARRY70GS
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Subframe/Cradle Mount Insulators & Bushings   Sat May 16, 2015 5:30 pm

All I did was loosen the bolts in the front. The rear of the cradle dropped down plenty to replace the 4 mounts and get the sway bar in.

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Subframe/Cradle Mount Insulators & Bushings   Sat May 16, 2015 5:41 pm

LARRY70GS wrote:
All I did was loosen the bolts in the front.  The rear of the cradle dropped down plenty to replace the 4 mounts and get the sway bar in.

Thanks again for the info, Larry. I'm going to start this job tomorrow if it isn't raining, just need to boot some extra pain med's to get started. Maybe I'll snort them and REALLY get going. Huh, Huh. twisted
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Subframe/Cradle Mount Insulators & Bushings   Thu May 21, 2015 3:03 am

larry makes it sound so easy I had a hell of a time, had to replace all the bolts and retainers on the middle and rears they were seized and rust welded together. On mine the middle upper insulators are white middle lower have pink ring, rear upper is black and lower has blue ring iirc. I'm so glad I got this done no more popping from the subfame and the front end feels a lot more solid. The old shimmy is still there at 65mph but new inner and outer tierods should fix it up I notice that the inner tie rod on the drivers side has some play to it. I wish there was a place I could take me car like a dyno where I can put the front end on it and watch to see where the hell its vibrating from. The only thing I have left to replace on the front end is the tie rods and or the rack. bonk
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LARRY70GS
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Subframe/Cradle Mount Insulators & Bushings   Thu May 21, 2015 11:11 am

I didn't mean to make it sound easy. I had to use an air chisel to get those 4 mounts out. I was fortunate to do this on a lift.

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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sloshua
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Subframe/Cradle Mount Insulators & Bushings   Thu May 21, 2015 1:39 pm

Just jokin Larry razz . Well I got the shimmy fixed by using a bubble level and adjusting the camber on the drivers side. I did a bunch of research past few days cus I could tell the driver side had to much positive camber by just looking at it from the front. I read most cars do have some positive camber and in my case there was way to much so I just used a bubble level and jacked the car up at the control arm but first I measured how far the control arm was from the ground when the tire was on and I also had the car on a nice flat surface. I just loosened up the 2 strut bolts enough to let me bang it around a bit with a little sledge hammer and adjusted it to have just a little positive camber using the bubble level. No more shimmy at 65 and the car rides a lot smoother. It does have just a small vibration at 75 now but I'm gonna adjust the passenger side this weekend, with the bubble on it I can tell theres a tad to much positive as well. I hope this helps some people with the vibration issues. This by far has solved most of it. When I put the bubble level on the brake rotor the bubble looks to be just about center with the bubble being just a tad closer to the line on the inside facing the brake rotor. Thats the last time im taking the car to a shop to have it aligned! they told me that they had adjusted the camber but I dont think they did. I think I could do a better job with a bubble level and some string to align the front end.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Subframe/Cradle Mount Insulators & Bushings   Wed Jun 03, 2015 4:50 pm

So has anyone installed the Dorman 924-044 cradle mounts yet in the other positions besides #3 that it's stated for?  Looking at doing this real soon if I can use them for the #1 and especially #2 position.  My front ones might be ok, but the middle ones need to be replaced.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Subframe/Cradle Mount Insulators & Bushings   Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:29 pm

I would use that mount for all of the positions. I used hockey pucks for the rear 4 mounts the ones behind the front wheels.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Subframe/Cradle Mount Insulators & Bushings   Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:57 am

I now know for sure what my problem has been the whole time. I went to change my rotors and front pads last night and found the left front sway bar mount ripped a hole in the sub frame. Looks like that was the problem the whole time and not the body mounts. I'll have to have a plate welded in and new holes tapped for the mount. It ripped that back bolt right through the frame and bent the front part where it mounts to the frame.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Subframe/Cradle Mount Insulators & Bushings   Wed Jun 10, 2015 2:31 pm

Thanks for the update. This isn't the first report we've heard of the Addco front bar causing this issue. I think the bracket starts bending first, then as more play is allowed, the bar just hammers on the bolts every time you lean into a corner.

They're a little pricey, but UMI Performance makes a billet aluminum bracket that should solve the problem.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 268k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180Ί t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO • 49k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
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J. Chris Davis
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Subframe/Cradle Mount Insulators & Bushings   Wed Jun 10, 2015 2:34 pm

Thanks for the information! Wouldn't happen to have a link to them would you?
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LARRY70GS
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Subframe/Cradle Mount Insulators & Bushings   Wed Jun 10, 2015 3:07 pm

J. Chris Davis wrote:
Thanks for the information!  Wouldn't happen to have a link to them would you?

http://rivperformance.editboard.com/t9833-write-up-es-bracket-wear-umi-performance-brackets-for-addco-sway-bars#158843

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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J. Chris Davis
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Subframe/Cradle Mount Insulators & Bushings   Wed Jun 10, 2015 3:11 pm

Thanks Larry!

EDIT: I looked at the link. Those won't help me. This actually ripped a hole in the subframe larger than a fifty cent piece.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Subframe/Cradle Mount Insulators & Bushings   Wed Jun 10, 2015 5:20 pm

We're talking about for next time (if you use the old brackets, it could happen again).

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 268k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180Ί t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO • 49k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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J. Chris Davis
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Subframe/Cradle Mount Insulators & Bushings   Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:37 pm

Ah, I gotcha. I will be looking at these then when I get that area repaired.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Subframe/Cradle Mount Insulators & Bushings   Wed Sep 23, 2015 3:47 pm

Could someone who has changed the bushings on the front cradle tell me how necesary are the Retainers P/N 25636517.

The parts blow up shows them at the top of the upper Cup Washers/Retainers. The upper washer are the mushroom shaped ones that have the spacers attached or machined together, from what I can see of the ones I have.

What are these other Retainers all about.? I think I read something in this thread about them just helping to hold the bolt or something during assembly.

If someone has a pic of these I'd greatly appreciate a post of them to see what they are and if their necessary. The Illustraded blow up I have from GM doesn't show them or give P/N's. But the other blow ups that have been posted on here does show them.

I'm getting down to the point of ordering/buying the last few pieces I think I need to go ahead with the cradle install this coming Monday. So I don't have too much time left to figure out the last parts needed and have them here on time.

Thanks for any input any of Y'all might have.

ALSO, If anybody has any parts left over from doing the cradle bushing replacement for a 98 or compatible year(s), I would be willing to buy some parts if your extra's are just hanging around.
I already have talked to Derek about his parts and would like to see who else may have stuff I still need.

Running out of time and money, but I'm sure we could work something out.

Thanks,

Rick
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Subframe/Cradle Mount Insulators & Bushings   Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:39 pm

AA,
I know this isn't the right place to request this info, but I have read through many threads regarding the engine mounts for the last 2+ hours and can't find what I'm looking for.

I need the Anchor P/N for the front engine mount replacement rubber part. Or a substitute for the Anchor part.

I have Anchor P/N 3056 for the rear trans mount and am currently filling it with Window Weld. But I would like to get a new front mount, the one that several people have done the hockey puck mod to, and buy the Anchor rubber insert for that one and also fill it with 3M Window Weld.

Can anyone provide me with the correct aftermarket P/N for the rubber mount/insert to replace the soft stock one.

While I'm preparing for the cradle swap, I would like to address these two mounts while I have a chance.

Thanks very much to anyone that can provide the P/N and source for the front aftermarket mount.

Rick
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sloshua
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Subframe/Cradle Mount Insulators & Bushings   Sun Sep 27, 2015 10:14 am

Westar EM-3127 . I never used the lil plastic retainers when I installed mine and no problems so far.
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Subframe/Cradle Mount Insulators & Bushings   Tue Sep 29, 2015 5:24 pm

sloshua wrote:
Westar EM-3127 . I never used the lil plastic retainers when I installed mine and no problems so far.

sloshua,

Thanks for the info. Will save the Westar P/N for future use. I already order a new mount from Rock Auto. I think it was a DEA Unit.
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Ash
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Subframe/Cradle Mount Insulators & Bushings   Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:41 pm

Rickw wrote:
ALSO, If anybody has any parts left over from doing the cradle bushing replacement for a 98 or compatible year(s), I would be willing to buy some parts if your extra's are just hanging around.
I already have talked to Derek about his parts and would like to see who else may have stuff I still need.

Running out of time and money, but I'm sure we could work something out.

Thanks,

Rick








Rick.  I just did my sub-frame bushings, and insulators earlier today.  I have a few parts left that I didn't need, or were extra.

Diagram #          Description                     Qty I have
12                     Plastic retainers                    6
10 & 11              Front position insulators     2   (both sides for the front.  My fronts were perfect, so I didn't see a need to replace them.)
06                     Retainer                               1
03                     Spacer                                 2
02                     Retainer (Nut)                       2


Let me know if you need any of these.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Subframe/Cradle Mount Insulators & Bushings   Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:11 pm

Ash, Dammit,
I could have used some of those parts if not near all of them.
But, I ordered the parts I needed and received them this morning.

I sure do wish I got the word out there sooner. My car sat for many month's but I didn't know what I would need until I received the new/used cradle from Morads. Based on what mounts were still installed in the cradle that looked good and usable but not new, I ordered the remaining parts from GMPARTSGIANT.com

So I have a bunch of mount rubber parts that came with the cradle that I am attempting to re-use. Probably not the best thing since they are as old as the cradle, but don't show any signs of cracking or deterioration yet.

If your willing to give up some of your remaining parts for the cost of shipping, then I can do that.
Otherwise, I've spent what I can on new parts at the moment to get the cradle and other misc. parts.

Let me know what you need to get for these parts and I'll let you know if I can afford them.

Otherwise, maybe someone else on here that will be facing the same project can pay you what you need for the extra parts.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Subframe/Cradle Mount Insulators & Bushings   Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:05 pm

Some info on cradle bushings:

I contacted Dorman technical support a while back via Email and one of the engineers responded with his name and phone to contact him directly. He told me that the mount assy's they sell were only for the rear-most position but only because that was the only engineering and technical info they had.

It turns out the Dorman  mount assemblies, that include the whole upper and lower rubber as well as the upper and lower steel washers/retainers and the bolt, that I bought will fit not only the rear position that they are made for, but will fit all six positions just fine.
I bought 2 sets for the rear mounts but tried them in every other hole in the cradle and they fit fine. I know someone asked on this post previously about this issue.

I don't know if the durometer of the Dorman parts is exactly the same as OEM but they do fit, feel the same, and if I had to do it all over again, I would just buy the Dorman mount assemblies for all 6 positions and save a shit load of money. I would then inspect them regularly for any premature deterioration, but I doubt I would find any. Even if I did, it would be many years after install and considering the cost of the Dorman products compared to the OEM products it would be well worth the gamble.

The Dorman mount assemblies were available on Amazon for about $35.00 each. Whereas the OEM parts were several hundred dollars for the remaining 4 mounts.

The Dorman P/N's are 924-044 and were $31.61 per assembly when I bought them on 5/13/15.

Hope this helps someone else that needs to do the cradle re-bushing job.
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PostSubject: 98 Riviera Subframe Mounts (Insulators)   Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:31 pm

I went to West Point Buick in Houston (281-493-2550), where I used to work(they give me the "Right Price") and had them order all the insulators for my 98 Riv on the front end subframe. Total of 12. I also got 6 new bolts. Total cost was $200.46.I'm hoping all the washers are not rusted out or worn, but they can order them too. They got them from the GM Parts Distribution warehouse in Ft Worth, TX, so it only took 1 day for them to get here. I tried online, but never found them for Rivieras.I will tackle the job when it cools down below 95!!!!!Randy.
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Subframe/Cradle Mount Insulators & Bushings   Thu Aug 25, 2016 12:01 pm

how did your frame mount job go?
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PostSubject: Re: Write-Up: Subframe/Cradle Mount Insulators & Bushings   Sun Sep 04, 2016 8:24 pm

oh man the biggest pain in the ass job iv ever done I hope you got a 3/4" impact drive! lol
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