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pbrktrt
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Name : patrick gervais
Location : muskegon.mi
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PostSubject: advice requested on coils   advice requested on coils EmptySun Oct 16, 2011 6:21 pm

My 95 sc has 205,000 miles on the original coils and seems to be running fine. I would like to know if I'm pushing it or should I just drive until there is a problem? I can buy Echlin new at just over cost or find some late model used and save a few bucks and probably get just as good if not better coils. Opinions and thoughts are welcomed.
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albertj
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albertj

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PostSubject: Re: advice requested on coils   advice requested on coils EmptySun Oct 16, 2011 6:45 pm

pbrktrt wrote:
My 95 sc has 205,000 miles on the original coils and seems to be running fine. I would like to know if I'm pushing it or should I just drive until there is a problem? I can buy Echlin new at just over cost or find some late model used and save a few bucks and probably get just as good if not better coils. Opinions and thoughts are welcomed.

If the **Wires** don't fail it isn't likely you'll ever have a problem.

Really.

You're not pushing it.

What I'd be wondering about is the **wires** keep an eye on those.

Albertj
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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: advice requested on coils   advice requested on coils EmptySun Oct 16, 2011 9:01 pm

Coils generally don't go bad. They are not an interval or maintenance replacement item. It's not impossible for a coil to go bad, but don't do it preventatively, you are just wasting your money.
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AA
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AA

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PostSubject: Re: advice requested on coils   advice requested on coils EmptyMon Oct 17, 2011 12:35 am

All original coils on my 236k mile car. Replace wires every 100k or so, and check/change plugs every 30-50k miles; the coils should last foreverif these items are kept up.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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pbrktrt
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PostSubject: Re: advice requested on coils   advice requested on coils EmptyMon Oct 17, 2011 6:50 am

Thank you gentlemen, I was of the belief that windings and insulation could degrade over time. That doesn't seem to be the case here. I run Belden premium wires and change them at 2-3 year intervals. The 605's I change every spring because they are so inexpensive.
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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: advice requested on coils   advice requested on coils EmptyMon Oct 17, 2011 10:03 am

pbrktrt wrote:
Thank you gentlemen, I was of the belief that windings and insulation could degrade over time.

Indeed they can, but there are so many variables involved in how quickly, and there is no known failure interval to watch out for. Many last for decades and hundreds of thousands of miles with no problems whatsoever.
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albertj
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albertj

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PostSubject: Re: advice requested on coils   advice requested on coils EmptyMon Oct 17, 2011 11:06 am

pbrktrt wrote:
Thank you gentlemen, I was of the belief that windings and insulation could degrade over time. That doesn't seem to be the case here. I run Belden premium wires and change them at 2-3 year intervals. The 605's I change every spring because they are so inexpensive.

The DuPont presentation on ignition coil materials at this LINK to a presentation on a non-DuPont conference web site will give you a glimpse of the materials used in ignition coils. Short story is a combination of epoxies and PET give better performance and longer life than you might think at pricing that's not insensible.

The thing to watch with our cars is that if you have the SC engine (L67) you get the SC coils. The NA engine (L36) will run either. As far as how long they will last -- if the wires don't break down or crap out, a **Very** long time. If there is a wire problem they will die fast and sometimes take the ICM with them.

Instead of changing your Belden wires every so many years you might want to put on a set of Magnecor 70 or 80 series 'electrosport' wires. I have run a set of 8 mm electrosports 80 wires with no issues (save one) for more than 100,000 miles. The lone issue - they use true spiral-wound wire conductors and the DC resistance is **very** low. So if a genius tests them with an ohmmeter they appear to have gone bad, resistance being below spec. Being truly spiral-wound their AC resistance is actually right where it should be. They set no trouble codes and have lunched no ignition coils.

Your approach - maintenance wire replacement - should work fine, you're replacing those wires before the current material set (silicone jackets, carbon powder impregnated silicone conductors) would give up the ghost. Looking at the NAPA Belden Edge site, I'd guess you could get more than 3 years out of a set. If wire construction interests you, might want to have a look at General Cable's (LINK) flyer about wire, and the Magnecor (LINK) site. The thing that amazes me is how much has been learned and implemented about ignition wires (and now the technology is changing further). Every manufacturer who gives a hoot is making better wires.

Albertj


Last edited by albertj on Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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pbrktrt
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PostSubject: Re: advice requested on coils   advice requested on coils EmptyMon Oct 17, 2011 7:28 pm

Albert, funny you should mention the Magnecor because I read your thread and checked them out. I would gladly spend the $65.00 plus shipping for a superior wire set but the Beldens are replaced under the warranty every time. They honestly have worked fine and I believe the Edge which replaced the Max are supposed to be a better wire. I work for NAPA so understandably use their parts when I can. Thanks for the insight and the links and yes, mine is sc and I know the demands under boost are much greater than a na. Ps. I know you meant 8mm because 80mm would be hard to fit in the looms. Be some awesome looking wires though.LOL
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albertj
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albertj

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PostSubject: Re: advice requested on coils   advice requested on coils EmptyMon Oct 17, 2011 10:00 pm

pbrktrt wrote:
Albert, funny you should mention the Magnecor because I read your thread and checked them out. I would gladly spend the $65.00 plus shipping for a superior wire set but the Beldens are replaced under the warranty every time. They honestly have worked fine and I believe the Edge which replaced the Max are supposed to be a better wire. I work for NAPA so understandably use their parts when I can. Thanks for the insight and the links and yes, mine is sc and I know the demands under boost are much greater than a na. Ps. I know you meant 8mm because 80mm would be hard to fit in the looms. Be some awesome looking wires though.LOL

Your right on the "mm" - Magnecor designates the 7 mm wires as "Electrosports 70" and likewise for the 8 mm. I fixed the post.

Albertj
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themanwithsauce
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themanwithsauce

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PostSubject: Re: advice requested on coils   advice requested on coils EmptyWed Oct 19, 2011 4:12 pm

Good timing with this post....I just replace my fuel pump to fix one issue and I think the correct operating power caused something else to go bad. Or the strain of operating with the bad pump for so long broke things. At idle, my car now chugs and shakes and knocks. Getting off the line is scary. But once i get going, all is well again. No check engine light. putting it into neutral at stops and on deceleration seems to help a bit. I ask my dad for advice and he is convinced I shorted a coil with all the 3+ second crank times at start. I think it's a clogged injector.

What symptoms does a car with a shorted coil have?

EDIT: I should also mention it was raining quite heavily on my drive home. My dad is suggesting that 16+ years of heavy use combined with an accidental bath did in one of the coils. Will attempt to update with diagnosis when it gets dark so its easier to see spark. Also I would like it to stop raining before I try this.
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