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 '98 trans needs new belt due to slippage ?

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brutusk1
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PostSubject: '98 trans needs new belt due to slippage ?   Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:49 pm

My brother is looking at possibly buying a '98 SC Riv with 134k miles. The current owner says the tranny "slips" and his mechanic (who he says he has confidence in) has told him that he will eventually have to replace a belt in it. The mechanic's estimate for repair was $1500.

We test drove the car a short distance tonight ( around the block) at low speeds and didn't notice any "slip" or shifting problems. We asked him to describe the symptoms and he said that there is a sort of "stumble" that occurs intermitently after driving for about an hour or so. Stumble, hesitation equals slipping I suppose. He said the stumble could occur once every ten seconds or 5 seconds or not show up for a longer periods. The tranny fluid was at the correct level and did not appear or smell burnt.

I know these transmissions have a chain in them that takes power off the engine crank. But a worn belt that would cause an intermitent stumble or hesitation sounds unlikely from my limited knowledge of automatic transmissions. Could this be something like muffler bearings or a right handed crescent wrench ? I've never heard of such a thing before.

I thought it might have something to do with torque converter lockup not working properly since I know some people here have had that problem.

Do any of you have an idea what this problem might caused by and what is involved in repair ? The SES light is on and we were told that his mechanic reset the light at the time of inspection but it came back on. Engine starts right up and idles smoothly, throttle response is at least as good as my '96.

We're going to test drive the car more extensively tomorrow. Any suggestions as to tests we could do to try to narrow down the source of the problem ? I'll take a code reader with me to reset the SES light and read any codes that appear.

The car has a nice body and would be a nice ride if the tranny problem isn''t that serious and expensive to repair.

What's your opinion guys ? Thanks.
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robotennis61
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PostSubject: Re: '98 trans needs new belt due to slippage ?   Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:54 pm

before you go and pay someone to R/R your tranny.Do a fluid and filter change.take a couple hours in the garage. while yer there swap out your tranny modulator.they dont last forever.follow your owners manual regarding fluid capacity.then retest. whole job shouldnt cost more than $45 bucks or so. ripping out a tranny,mucho big bucks
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: '98 trans needs new belt due to slippage ?   Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:32 am

brutusk1 wrote:
My brother is looking at possibly buying a '98 SC Riv with 134k miles. The current owner says the tranny "slips" and his mechanic (who he says he has confidence in) has told him that he will eventually have to replace a belt in it. The mechanic's estimate for repair was $1500.

We test drove the car a short distance tonight ( around the block) at low speeds and didn't notice any "slip" or shifting problems. We asked him to describe the symptoms and he said that there is a sort of "stumble" that occurs intermitently after driving for about an hour or so. Stumble, hesitation equals slipping I suppose. He said the stumble could occur once every ten seconds or 5 seconds or not show up for a longer periods. The tranny fluid was at the correct level and did not appear or smell burnt.

I know these transmissions have a chain in them that takes power off the engine crank. But a worn belt that would cause an intermitent stumble or hesitation sounds unlikely from my limited knowledge of automatic transmissions. Could this be something like muffler bearings or a right handed crescent wrench ? I've never heard of such a thing before.

I thought it might have something to do with torque converter lockup not working properly since I know some people here have had that problem.

Do any of you have an idea what this problem might caused by and what is involved in repair ? The SES light is on and we were told that his mechanic reset the light at the time of inspection but it came back on. Engine starts right up and idles smoothly, throttle response is at least as good as my '96.

We're going to test drive the car more extensively tomorrow. Any suggestions as to tests we could do to try to narrow down the source of the problem ? I'll take a code reader with me to reset the SES light and read any codes that appear.

The car has a nice body and would be a nice ride if the tranny problem isn''t that serious and expensive to repair.

What's your opinion guys ? Thanks.

don't tell anybody, but the 4t65e transmission in your riv has no belts; has a robust drive chain, has frictions for clutches, has gears... and a torque converter... no belts.

As for the SES light - you really have to read the code. Best at this point is to read, write down then clear the current and stored codes and then drive the car to set the "Service" light on again - then read the codes again.

What is the asking price for the car? If this problem gets the asking to $500 or so it may not matter much that the transmission has an issue... especially if you locate a good used one for $500 or so. try moradpartscompany.com, see if they list any on their site. Technically morad is a dismantler not a junkyard - they get cars and teardown/inventory the parts they think they can move or that are small and high value (like the HVAC control heads).

What to do:

if the price of car is acceptable assuming you have to replace the transmission, I would not agonize, if I wanted it I'd probably buy at a price that discounts 100% of rebuild/replace transmission. Then - Please Post what you learn.

Albertj
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robotennis61
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PostSubject: Re: '98 trans needs new belt due to slippage ?   Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:48 am

yeah..there is a "Band" that encircles the friction plates.does he mean that?
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PostSubject: Re: '98 trans needs new belt due to slippage ?   Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:59 am

robotennis61 wrote:
yeah..there is a "Band" that encircles the friction plates.does he mean that?

beats me... I think if the mech is talking about belts in the transmission the car might be available at a bargain price.
To figure that out, though, OP has to make some calls and find a replacement transmission.

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PostSubject: Re: '98 trans needs new belt due to slippage ?   Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:10 am

yeah..the band can get all galled and slippery.they "Cook" and need to be repalaced.My cuz rarely needed to replace em.they were allways in good shape while the rest of the components were shot. I dont talk to my cuz any longer so I cant ask him.

I suppose if he can pick it up for a song? everything else working?
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PostSubject: Re: '98 trans needs new belt due to slippage ?   Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:10 am

My trans had an issue where the pressure control solenoid was not working properly. When the transmission got hot, usually after 30-45 minutes of driving, it would 'shudder' when starting from a stop. This sounds similar to the slipping he's describing above. If it's caught early, the solenoid could be replaced. If it's been going on for a long time, it will probably need clutches as well, and that requires a full R/R teardown/rebuild. I found that when it was hot enough to shudder when leaving a stop, I could move the shifter all the way into 1 - this increases the fluid pressure to max - and it would not shudder. But the damage had already been done at that point, and a full rebuild was required.

A fluid and filter change may clear the issue, may not, but it's worth trying.

@Robo - '98s don't have modulators. No vacuum lines to trans, all electronically controlled.
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PostSubject: Re: '98 trans needs new belt due to slippage ?   Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:50 am

Wow! Modulators are cool!
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brutusk1
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PostSubject: Re: '98 trans needs new belt due to slippage ?   Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:59 am

Thanks for the info guys.

I also thought that he might have mis-remembered "belt" when the mechanic said "band". But I would think that if one of your bands was slipping you would get an "over-run" in RPM at a particular upshift point like 1st to 2nd gear, 2-to-3, or 3rd to OD or it just would drop a particular gear completely.

To say it "shudders" or "hesitates" intemittently when you're driving down the road didn't really say (to me at least) a band is going out. That's why I thought it might have to do with torque converter lockup which I thought was controlled by a module that "might" be accessed without pulling the trans.

He wants $2300 for the car which is probably a good price if it doesn't need a trans rebuild and a fairly high price if it does.

Pulling the codes and a replicating the problem in a longer, more thorough test drive would be the next step.

PS: It almost seems as if he's describing an ignition related problem. The codes might reveal that.
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brutusk1
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PostSubject: Re: '98 trans needs new belt due to slippage ?   Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:32 pm

brutusk1 wrote:
I would think that if one of your bands was slipping you would get an "over-run" in RPM at a particular upshift point like 1st to 2nd gear, 2-to-3, or 3rd to OD or it just would drop a particular gear completely.

.
Have any of you experienced failed/ failing bands ? What were the symptoms ? As I've described above or different ?
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PostSubject: Re: '98 trans needs new belt due to slippage ?   Sat Nov 19, 2011 7:27 am

I have to chime in and tell of my recent adventures! It all started with a bad idle, three alternators, a new computer, battery, new IAC, MAF, and TPS sensors, CRACKING THE LOWER INTAKE MANIFOLD, replacing that and all gaskets, tensioner pulleys, new radiator and Coolant Temp Sensor. With this said I got my car back from my friend doing the intake and at 55-60 it started to shudder or buck like the Converter clutch was going. Took it to my friends tranny shop and for a week he drove it and no problem! I took it back and for another week it drove fine! All the sudden here it is again WTF! Frustrating dealing with a part time problem! It never does it when you take it to your mechanic! Any way, it did it two days ago in all the other gears and at idle as well. I shut off the radio and heard one of the relays clicking underneath the seat! Amazing I heard this playing in Rock Bands for 30 years! I was all ready to get a fuel pump to the tune of $350! My friend told me it may be just the relay and could be changed for ten bucks! Sometimes the posts get heated up and shrink causing brief failures. Also the ground cable to the tank may be funky! I hope this may help someone! grimace
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PostSubject: Re: '98 trans needs new belt due to slippage ?   Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:24 pm

had a problem with my 98 riv. Trans would seem to want to downshift at cruise and would also at stop light. All of this was intedrmittent under no particuler driving conditions. Also had p0341 cam sensor /bank 1 missfire code. Pulled engine firewall connector to check for broken cam sensor wire. Found no broken wire but reconnecting plug solved trans and code problems . ran great seems just week connection at fire wall connector.
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PostSubject: Re: '98 trans needs new belt due to slippage ?   Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:00 pm

Surely was the relay. The posts were burnt and swapped it out in ten seconds flat! Much better than a tranny rebuild and a fuel pump!
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PostSubject: Cam Sensor error code and transmission performance   Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:15 pm

grip wrote:
had a problem with my 98 riv. Trans would seem to want to downshift at cruise and would also at stop light. All of this was intedrmittent under no particuler driving conditions. Also had p0341 cam sensor /bank 1 missfire code. Pulled engine firewall connector to check for broken cam sensor wire. Found no broken wire but reconnecting plug solved trans and code problems . ran great seems just week connection at fire wall connector.

Very interesting - this ' 98 Riv we looked at also had a PT0341 Cam Senser Error code. We reset it three times and it came back each time under different conditions -but never at the point at which the transmission "stuttered" or "pulsed" so we concluded that the problems were not related. Maybe they were related ?

The transmission seemed to have two issues - one was a sort of stuttering in OD at 1400 rpm when under load - as if it couldn't decide which gear it wanted to be in - this is similar to what my '96 does under those conditions - so it could be normal. The other condition was sort of a "jolt" or "pause" accompanied by a momentary 150-200 rpm increase. I believe my brother said this was happening both in OD and third gear (he was driving). I think this is probably what the mechanic interpreted as the failing band(s). So I think the trans did have "some issues". Although the transmission shifted well most of the time.

The guy selling the car owes $2300 on the car and wont take less - he'll probably let it go back to the bank. I don't see that price as particularly good considering the overall condtion of the car and some of the other problems we found, and frankly my brother and I don't really need another project of this magnitude. I sort of feel for the guy because he's obviously strapped for cash and his "missus" is telling him to make it go away yesterday.
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PostSubject: Re: '98 trans needs new belt due to slippage ?   Thu Nov 24, 2011 6:18 am

Mine was a fuel pump issue that I changed last night. Thank God there is an access panel in the trunk. Mine was corroded and built up with salt and crap that it took me Two hours to get all of it off! The original ring was gone by the time I got down to the lip of the pump so it popped right out! Had a nice magnet to get all the shit out while I had the tank open. Successful job and it seems more responsive.
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PostSubject: Re: '98 trans needs new belt due to slippage ?   Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:17 pm

brutusk1 wrote:
grip wrote:
had a problem with my 98 riv. Trans would seem to want to downshift at cruise and would also at stop light. All of this was intedrmittent under no particuler driving conditions. Also had p0341 cam sensor /bank 1 missfire code. Pulled engine firewall connector to check for broken cam sensor wire. Found no broken wire but reconnecting plug solved trans and code problems . ran great seems just week connection at fire wall connector.

Very interesting - this ' 98 Riv we looked at also had a PT0341 Cam Senser Error code. We reset it three times and it came back each time under different conditions -but never at the point at which the transmission "stuttered" or "pulsed" so we concluded that the problems were not related. Maybe they were related ?

The transmission seemed to have two issues - one was a sort of stuttering in OD at 1400 rpm when under load - as if it couldn't decide which gear it wanted to be in - this is similar to what my '96 does under those conditions - so it could be normal. The other condition was sort of a "jolt" or "pause" accompanied by a momentary 150-200 rpm increase. I believe my brother said this was happening both in OD and third gear (he was driving). I think this is probably what the mechanic interpreted as the failing band(s). So I think the trans did have "some issues". Although the transmission shifted well most of the time.

The guy selling the car owes $2300 on the car and wont take less - he'll probably let it go back to the bank. I don't see that price as particularly good considering the overall condition of the car and some of the other problems we found, and frankly my brother and I don't really need another project of this magnitude. I sort of feel for the guy because he's obviously strapped for cash and his "missus" is telling him to make it go away yesterday.

Don't take this the wrong way - but the thing to do might be to find out which bank. They are highly unlikely to sell it for $2300 either, but you can make them an offer. Unless they have someone inside who wants it (this happens a good bit I have a neighbor who makes $$ making minor repairs to and cleaning then flipping surrendered cars for a local credit union) you are likely to be able to pick that car up for short money and the current "owner" will get out from under the bank in the bargain. So yeah if you really want it, find out who the bank is. And see if they'd entertain an offer from you once they take title.


Last edited by albertj on Fri Nov 25, 2011 12:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: '98 trans needs new belt due to slippage ?   Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:41 pm

I need to make it clear that my p0341 code and transmission issues were two different issues.The p0341 code had been an an ongoing problem for over a year. I could clear code and it would come back sometimes after a short period or sometimes weeks. Computer would also turn off light after continued driving cycles with no code clearing.No drivability issues were noted with this light condition. Transmission problem started later , in fact i aquired a replacement trans to address the problem. After reading in forums info on possible broken wire causing p0341 code, i removed firewall connector to inspect. Found no broken wire but seems reconnection cleared code and transmission issues were gone also.
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