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werdstrave
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werdstrave

Name : Drew
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PostSubject: Nightmare Transmission Rebuild   Nightmare Transmission Rebuild EmptyThu Feb 23, 2012 12:05 am

Hey Guys,

I recently had my transmission rebuilt for a lot more money than I wanted to spend. Currently I have encountered the following problems after the job that have been stumping me. I've been back and forth to the shop and they have been able to do nothing for me. The transmission shifts great but:

1. They did not replace front and back trans mounts so engine shakes when under high load (I will be doing this)
2. I get far less gas mileage on the highway now (from 26 to 18)....so I get city MPG on the highway.
3. My cruise control no longer works
4. Grease residue sprayed all around the passenger side CV axle (don't know what caused this but was very annoyed to find it)

Of most concern is my gas mileage and cruise control not working. Could the CC and MPG issue be related after a tranny rebuild? Some guesses I had were:

1. Torque converter not locking up on the highway?
2. Something with the breaking system being engaged?
3. Something with the electronic side of things with the cruise control?
Any other possible solutions???

I spent so much on this job guys and am pretty upset not to have a problem free car at this point...
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Transmission Rebuild   Nightmare Transmission Rebuild EmptyThu Feb 23, 2012 12:25 am

First thing: was the work warrantied? I had similar troubles when mine was rebuilt. They took the unit out 3 times before it was done right - all under warranty. If you paid a fair price, you should have gotten 12 months or 12,000 miles at least.

1. They are not required to replace the mounts. My guys didn't do it either, and I didn't think to ask them about it. Ended up doing it myself a couple years later.

2. The decreased mileage would seem to indicate a TCC failure. You can sense this on the freeway if your RPM is slightly higher than it used to be. Some other '95 owners may be able to tell you what they see at 65 MPH cruise for comparison.

3. If your cruise worked before you took it in, they should be responsible for it. Ask them to determine the problem and fix.

4. Grease from the CV is caused by a leaking CV boot. My guys did the exact same thing. Passenger side sprayed grease all under the hood a few days after the rebuild. I had them remove the shaft, repack with grease, and reseal. If you don't get on this one, the CV shaft will fail sooner than later.

Good luck, and let us know how things turn out.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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werdstrave
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werdstrave

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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Transmission Rebuild   Nightmare Transmission Rebuild EmptyThu Feb 23, 2012 8:03 am

Yes it was warrantied for 2 years. However, I've taken it back for the cruise control issue and they could not fix it. I've recently expressed how displeased I was with the service with them and it is now going to the DMV. So....doesn't look like it's getting resolved soon. Which sucks because I'm trying to relocate at the moment from CT to CA.

1. I can take care of the mounts. I just told them to do it and they didn't.
2. I'll try and test this out. Any recommended tests to trouble shoot this?
3. They were unable to determine problem
4. I will take a look at the CV....I can't believe this. They told me that one of them was ripped and that they replaced it. I just replaced both myself a few months ago so how could they both be ripped?

Quite frankly, I can't believe all of this is happening right now.
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RidzRiv
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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Transmission Rebuild   Nightmare Transmission Rebuild EmptyThu Feb 23, 2012 4:28 pm

I checked today on the freeway, and my 95 supercharged stayed at 1800 rpm while cruising at 65 mph.
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werdstrave
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werdstrave

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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Transmission Rebuild   Nightmare Transmission Rebuild EmptyThu Feb 23, 2012 4:34 pm

Thanks Greg. I just checked mine today. I'm at 2200 rpm when cruising at 65 mph. It feels like it's constantly engaged.
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werdstrave
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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Transmission Rebuild   Nightmare Transmission Rebuild EmptyThu Feb 23, 2012 5:03 pm

Aaron, can you tell me what was wrong with your transmission the first 2 times they had to take it out. My relationship has soured with the shop now and I don't know if I can trust there work anymore. I'm in a pretty tough spot right now.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Transmission Rebuild   Nightmare Transmission Rebuild EmptyThu Feb 23, 2012 5:06 pm

Quote :
I'm at 2200 rpm when cruising at 65 mph.

I think that means the TCC is disengaged (not locking up). You can drive the car this way without damage, as long as you don't let it get too hot. Avoid very long trips (100 miles or more) unless you let the car cool down along the way.

In addition to the decreased MPG, driving without TCC in the summer months will heat up the trans too much. They really should fix this under warranty.

in my case, the first installation of the rebuilt trans had the wrong torque converter. 2nd time, the TCC clutch stuck on the day I picked it up. Right back the next day - they replaced the valve body to fix. Since then, I've put 90k miles on the trans. You can read about my experience here:

http://rivperformance.editboard.com/t1594-diary-of-a-dying-transmission

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Transmission Rebuild   Nightmare Transmission Rebuild EmptyThu Feb 23, 2012 8:20 pm

werdstrave wrote:
Thanks Greg. I just checked mine today. I'm at 2200 rpm when cruising at 65 mph. It feels like it's constantly engaged.

Your lock-up, most likely, is not working.

Most likely in order to fix they have to take apart trans to get to a small piece of plastic called the "TCC Apply Valve." They should replace it with the TransGo or other corresponding piece made of billet aluminum. After the fix it may make a little chuckle noise when engaging but not a big deal you probably won't even notice. Next to last pic on this link is the Sonnax version:

http://www.tripleedgeperformance.com/Solenoids_and_Valves.html

They may also have to clean and refit the TC relief ball valve...

here is a description of a rebuild you may find helpful to read and see what is involved

http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1483

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werdstrave
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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Transmission Rebuild   Nightmare Transmission Rebuild EmptyFri Feb 24, 2012 10:16 pm

Aaron, great story. Although a lot of it was over my head, I have the basic idea. Albertj, I will have to read into this.

Here is where I'm at guys. Unfortunately, I have not had a pleasant experience dealing with my transmission shop like Aaron did. A quick recap of what I found after the job was complete:

1. Transmission mounts not replaced when asked.
2. Significant loss in fuel economy on highway.
3. Cruise control not operable after sale.
4. Sub frame mounts not torqued to spec and falling out of car. Could actually unscrew by hand.
5. Hole in CV axle boot spraying grease in engine compartment.
6. Missing ball joint grease fitting.
7. Disconnected ABS sensor from passenger wheel.
8. Charged for 8 frame mounts. Only 6 mounts on receipt.
9. Job itself took 1 MONTH, plus a 3 week ordeal trying to get the CC corrected.

After bringing these issues back to them, they proceeded to insult my intelligence and talked to me like I didn't know what I was talking about. I've since filed a complaint with my state DMV and BBB and am trying to resolve it that way. I do have a 2 year warranty on the job, however I do not wish to do business with them anymore for obvious reasons. They could not even diagnose the cruise control issue. I have my fingers crossed that I can get some money out of the project to get the job corrected at the dealership (I feel this is the only way to get the job done right on this trans)

My biggest concern is getting the TCC fixed since I can correct the other problems myself for the most part. I can actually feel the heat coming from the center console vents after about 50 mi of straight driving....not good. You guys have any advice on how to approach my situation? It's probably more of a question of how I handle the politics rather than the actual job.
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Transmission Rebuild   Nightmare Transmission Rebuild EmptySat Feb 25, 2012 12:57 pm

I am not sure what to tell you. I spent the better part of a couple days fixing problems that were left behind after a shop in the NYC area repaired the transmission on a car I'm letting my son use.

The 4t6xx series of transmissions are common, I can't imagine why they'd take a month to fix it. What problem did you roll into the shop with?

The other thing - at the end of the day it's your car. You need to get onto fixing the problems you know about so they do not get worse, and maintain your complaints so you can settle for the expense of repairs. Also, I am not aware that any DMV or BBB really deals with such complaints. I would think that if you had such issues you would document them and approach the transmission shop (you already have). Lacking satisfaction you have to document what you complained about, what you asked for, what the response was (I guess you have already). THEN you have to file a complaint, usually with the attorney general's office in your state (and you had better have your documentation and you have better had made a good-faith effort to resolve with the shop before bugging the AG). If you are in Florida it's the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services. You have to find out who you really complain to, then that office will tell you how to proceed -- and you **must** take care to understand and follow their instructions. For instance see:

http://www.800helpfla.com/motorveh.html

http://ago.mo.gov/publications/auto5.htm

http://www.oag.state.md.us/Forms/auto.pdf (even if not in Md. you might use this to get your info straight)

https://www.oag.state.tx.us/consumer/car_repair.shtml

So -- I'd say you have some work to do. Remember in the final analysis it's your car and you have to keep it running right. So again you need to get onto fixing the problems you know about so they do not get worse, and maintain your complaints so you can possibly settle for the expense of repairs.

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werdstrave
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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Transmission Rebuild   Nightmare Transmission Rebuild EmptySat Feb 25, 2012 5:29 pm

Thanks Alberttj. I had originally gone to the shop to have the transmission rebuilt because it was shifting funny. The power steering went out a few days before so I had that done as well. Now almost 2 months later, I have a huge problem on my hands. In the state of CT, all auto repair complaints go through the DMV. I've done all other work on the car myself and this was the last major mechanical project to be done before paint. I guess I'll keep my fingers crossed and report back on what happens. I've never had to do this before because like I said, most repairs go through me.
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Transmission Rebuild   Nightmare Transmission Rebuild EmptySat Feb 25, 2012 7:20 pm

werdstrave wrote:
Thanks Alberttj. I had originally gone to the shop to have the transmission rebuilt because it was shifting funny. The power steering went out a few days before so I had that done as well. Now almost 2 months later, I have a huge problem on my hands. In the state of CT, all auto repair complaints go through the DMV. I've done all other work on the car myself and this was the last major mechanical project to be done before paint. I guess I'll keep my fingers crossed and report back on what happens. I've never had to do this before because like I said, most repairs go through me.

I'd think about locating a good used or rebuilt transmission (maybe a Jasper) and when your case finally comes up proposing that for settlement. Transmission is only a mechanical device. If they were supposed to remove & rebuild it I get the impression someone screwed up. However, that will be tough to prove and you still gotta drive.

Unless your car is cherry otherwise I am not confident of getting support for any administrative action concerning a 17-year-old car.

I'd just be sure to follow the CT DMV guidelines and follow up as often as you can without being a jerk.

Good luck.

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werdstrave
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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Transmission Rebuild   Nightmare Transmission Rebuild EmptySun Feb 26, 2012 7:04 pm

Thanks. This is a very newbie question but what are you guys using to get the codes from your car? I'd love to diagnose my cars problems with a device and I just remember way back the ODBI and ODBII code shooters and remember 1995 vehicles not complying.

Also, my service engine light doesn't come on anymore...is it possible the bulb is out? Do I just go in through the dash to get at it?
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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Transmission Rebuild   Nightmare Transmission Rebuild EmptySun Feb 26, 2012 7:21 pm

werdstrave wrote:
Thanks. This is a very newbie question but what are you guys using to get the codes from your car? I'd love to diagnose my cars problems with a device and I just remember way back the ODBI and ODBII code shooters and remember 1995 vehicles not complying.

Also, my service engine light doesn't come on anymore...is it possible the bulb is out? Do I just go in through the dash to get at it?

The light should come on every time you turn the ignition to the run position, and crank it to start. If the bulb is out, yes you need to remove the dash bezel, and remove the cluster. I'm not sure how easy it is to replace the bulb, and whether any soldering is required. Removing the dash bezel is very easy after you do it the first time. I can get mine off in 10 minutes.

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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werdstrave
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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Transmission Rebuild   Nightmare Transmission Rebuild EmptyMon Feb 27, 2012 9:38 am

I just had my main concerns (Cruise Control inoperable and Torque Converter no-lock up) diagnosed by my local dealership. They said to switch out the "brake switch". Apparently there are two of them. Does anyone know what they could be talking about and where they are located? I think he said they were under the steering column.
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LARRY70GS
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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Transmission Rebuild   Nightmare Transmission Rebuild EmptyMon Feb 27, 2012 11:10 am

When you apply the brake, there is a switch that senses brake pedal movement and lights your brake lights at the rear. Have a look under the dash. The switch should be obvious. That brake switch is integral to operating the cruise and TCC.

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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werdstrave
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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Transmission Rebuild   Nightmare Transmission Rebuild EmptyMon Feb 27, 2012 11:21 am

Found the switches. Pulled them out and resistance tested them. Hit them with contact cleaner and VWALAH, cruise control back in business! I'm hoping that was keeping the tcc from engaging.

Will need to see if I get the TCC to lock up later today. Do you know a good way to test if it is locking up or not?
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LARRY70GS
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Nightmare Transmission Rebuild Empty
PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Transmission Rebuild   Nightmare Transmission Rebuild EmptyMon Feb 27, 2012 11:42 am

werdstrave wrote:
Found the switches. Pulled them out and resistance tested them. Hit them with contact cleaner and VWALAH, cruise control back in business! I'm hoping that was keeping the tcc from engaging.

Will need to see if I get the TCC to lock up later today. Do you know a good way to test if it is locking up or not?

With the engine and transmission fully warmed up, look for about 1600 RPM at 60 MPH. If the converter is locked up, you can feel it by pushing slightly on the gas pedal at highway speed. The RPM will not go up much. If the converter is unlocked, the RPM will jump quickly. Stepping on the brake at highway speed should unlock the converter, and the rpm should go up a bit.

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCda-t_Jls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfT2tEO4XcU
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Nightmare Transmission Rebuild Empty
PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Transmission Rebuild   Nightmare Transmission Rebuild EmptyMon Feb 27, 2012 12:25 pm

Agree with Larry - the easiest way to test lockup is to go at a steady speed (slight incline helps) about 55 mph so you know the TCC is locked, and lightly tap the brake pedal. You should see the RPMs jump. Don't use the CC while performing this test wink

But I think you'll notice right away when it locks up. It's like seeingfeeling it drop another gear.
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werdstrave
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Nightmare Transmission Rebuild Empty
PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Transmission Rebuild   Nightmare Transmission Rebuild EmptyMon Feb 27, 2012 4:01 pm

Cool guys thanks. One other thing related to this transmission rebuild.
I've noticed some tranny fluid leaking. It appears to be coming
from the passenger side axle seal. The dealer said there
was an interface problem with the CV Axle and the transmission and that
it was leaking. He said the CV wasn't fitting properly. I just checked
it out and there is about a 1/4'' of play where I can pull the axle in
and out of seal. When I replaced the CV axles, I remember a little play
being there, is that normal? Also, I just had to re-tighten the boot on
this side because it had slipped off and shot grease everywhere. I think
these problems may be related. Could the fact that my rear transmission
mount is deteriorated cause stress between the spinning CV axle and the
seal in the transmission? The CV in there now is only a
few months old. So I'm not sure what to think. Here's an image of how
far the CV sticks out (note I wiped off the area). Do you guys know what

might be causing this leak? I'm going to replace the mount soon. Without
it I'm concluding that the CV axle is spinning off center and causing
this problem. Theory. Nightmare Transmission Rebuild Img_0513
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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Transmission Rebuild   Nightmare Transmission Rebuild EmptyMon Feb 27, 2012 4:14 pm

That pic shows that the CV shaft is not seated all the way. Mine has the shiny part completely hidden. I think it should go in another inch or so.

That last inch was hard to get in - I had to really push hard to get mine to seat. There is a c clip inside the yoke you show right there that has to snap over the output shaft and fits in a little groove inside. Yours isn't in far enough.

It could also cause the vibrations you mentioned earlier.
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werdstrave
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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Transmission Rebuild   Nightmare Transmission Rebuild EmptyMon Feb 27, 2012 4:19 pm

Damn. I just trying pushing it in. Doesn't seem to want to go. Does anyone else recommend another way to get it in? Maybe tapping on it with a hammer on the outboard side? Is there a picture of a passenger side CV axle correctly seated somewhere on this forum so I can see how far out of whack I am?
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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Transmission Rebuild   Nightmare Transmission Rebuild EmptyMon Feb 27, 2012 4:49 pm

Just went through all my photos. Unfortunately I don't see a shot of that but I can tell you the shiny part should all be inside.
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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Transmission Rebuild   Nightmare Transmission Rebuild EmptyMon Feb 27, 2012 5:17 pm

I'm not 100% that it goes all the way in, even though it looks that way. I have a photo of mine, but not sure if it was taken before or after I popped it out. To be clear, are we talking about the driver or passenger side axle?

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
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PostSubject: Re: Nightmare Transmission Rebuild   Nightmare Transmission Rebuild EmptyMon Feb 27, 2012 5:31 pm

You have to rotate it in either direction until you feel a "seating in" once you are satisfied that the "seating in" has happened ,give the CV a good shove and it will seat.what you are feeling,in resistance,is the circlip at the end of the shaft resisting going into place.just jam it in!

And dont tap or hit the CV joint with a hammer!
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