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 Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv

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robotennis61
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Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv - Page 6 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv - Page 6 EmptySun May 19, 2013 1:26 pm

AA wrote:
Yeah, the trans/motor mount actually does let the engine transfer more torque. I noticed the same when I fitted a solid resin-filled rear and puck front mounts. 1st gear feels like the engine is going to twist the car in half.

Yap.I bet a solid rear mount adapted to a series 2 would make ridiculously high torque!
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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv - Page 6 EmptySun May 19, 2013 1:42 pm

No doubt in my mind I have more power at the wheels now. Feels great! My MPGs have drastically improved also. Remember when I couldnt believe how you guys were getting ~300 miles per full tank? I think this is why.

You guys have to do this. AA, I dont know how you autocross your Riv with stock springs. You would be amazed with these.

Who was the first one to try the STS springs on the Riv anyways? Mad huge respect to the founder of this mod.

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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv - Page 6 EmptySun May 19, 2013 3:17 pm

Quote :
You guys have to do this. AA, I dont know how you autocross your Riv with stock springs. You would be amazed with these.
Here's how: 1) big sway bars ARE THE SAME as stiffer springs in certain situations, and 2) light wheels & lower profile tires also have THE SAME EFFECT as stiffer springs, because the air in the tire is actually another spring. Wheels & tires can make more difference to the handling than any suspension component can, even sway bars.

Autocross and road course racing is mostly about the hard corners. Big sway bars actually increase the spring rates to the outside wheels, sometimes doubling it when in a corner, especially with heavy cars like ours. The harder the cornering force, the higher the effective spring rates to the outside wheels. So when raced, or driven hard, the sway bars create the effect of super stiff Eibach springs to the outside wheels, but when cruising straight roads my ride stays softer by keeping OEM springs, which I actually prefer (sway bars don't affect the rates much driving straight). The KYBs keep squat and dive in check, so the ride is still controlled and comfortable. Having just returned from an 800 mile trip, I can truly appreciate this. My co-pilot drives a VW Golf and was impressed with the cornering behavior while driving the Riv. If you've ever driven a Golf, it's anything but soft in comparison.

There's an idea that stiffer springs must always be better, but it really depends on what you're doing with the car. All track use, or for short trips, sure. But I'm daily driving 99% of the time, and 80% of that time is not spent sliding out of a turn. Especially since OH roads are pretty bumpy, I like the OEM rates, provided the dampers are kept fresh and tight. Also, my tires are a lower 45 profile, so the ride is a lot firmer, even with the softer springs. My wheels are lighter, too, so the springs react faster than when trying to control the heavier OEM wheels (advantage of lowered unsprung mass). If I added much stiffer springs to my set-up, it would be very harsh. I'm not willing to sacrifice all the comfort that came with the Riviera. I'm willing to let go of some of it, and I've already done enough.

After installing the Eibachs your rate is higher both when cruising and cornering. When you add the Addco bars, you'll see a much stiffer spring rate when cornering. If you get low profile performance tires, this gets multiplied again. But as things are now, the spring rates are probably similar for our cars when taking hard corners. I would even mine is still higher in very hard corners because of the bars and tires.

When you get your sway bars, try clamping one to a bench with one end off the edge. Stand or hang on the end of the bar and see how many inches it moves. With some math you can see how the lb/in rating for a sway bar is MUCH, MUCH higher than for a coil spring (even a stiff one), which moves quite easily when you put weight on it. It's true that you must factor in both ends of the sway bar + bushing/link losses when calculating the effective rate, but considering the sway bar force is added on top of the spring rate, it's easy to see how these bars can make such a difference. Not quite as much as wheels and tires, but still significant.




_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
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'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
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Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv - Page 6 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv - Page 6 EmptySun May 19, 2013 11:37 pm

highwaywarrior wrote:
Not gonna lie, a drop looks good with 16s and those tires too!!!

....you know, I think you have a point here, at least from the photos we've seen so far.

I don't know how much of the pin-stripe white wall plays a part, but with the slight drop, the 16" wheels look more proportional to the car in your photos than with the standard height.

If I end up with slightly lowered springs, I may be rethinking my quest for 17x7 Lucerne wheels. After all, the 17x7 Lucerne wheels plus tires will almost certainly be heavier than the Riviera 16x7, which will be a negative handling trade off. If the 16s with a ~1 inch drop present the illusion of larger wheels, then that might be the best option if one isn't in the market for aftermarket wheels.

This may especially be true if one wants to balance the comfort of the Riviera's ride with the handling benefit of the springs and heavier sway bars. As AA points out, to do all three (sways, springs and low profile tires), one may end up with a noticeably harsher ride, more so than some may want (me). But pick two of the three, say sways and springs, or sways and low profile tires, may be a good balance. Hard to say until one tries a given combination, but interesting.

It would definitely save me some $$ to avoid new wheels, plus I could keep the "Riviera" specific wheels that match the car. I have a buddy that will strip and powder coat them for me pretty cheap. So maybe I'll just go that route and refresh my stock wheels.... hrmmm

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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv - Page 6 EmptyMon May 20, 2013 8:30 am

The springs have only made a slight increase in cornering ability. I expect the sway bars are the final solution there.

More than anything, just driving in straight lines has become such a better ride. Others with higher spring rates need to back me up here. My ride is smoother and MORE comfortable on straightaways than it was with stock springs.
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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv - Page 6 EmptyMon May 20, 2013 8:31 am

Looks great Charlie! By the way, if you ever run across another set, please PM me. I've been trying to find a set for awhile but they're hard to come across.
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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv - Page 6 EmptyMon May 20, 2013 8:34 am

69GSColorado wrote:
Looks great Charlie! By the way, if you ever run across another set, please PM me. I've been trying to find a set for awhile but they're hard to come across.

Thanks, homie! Looks and feels great! I highly doubt I will ever see another set for sale again. But if I do, I will post it on the forum.


Front went from 9.25" to 7.25"
Back went from 9" to 8"

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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv - Page 6 EmptyTue May 21, 2013 9:26 am

Forgot to mention this...

So when I was doing my brakes sunday, my front drivers side wheel well was just caked in grease. I was like WTF. and then... I saw the tear in my axle boot. DAMN!

What does this repair entail? can I duct tape it shut for now? Do I need a new boot? a new axle? Is this a job I can do or does it need to go to the mechanic?

PLEASE ADVISE, I am taking it easy on her aka staying out of boost until I get this repaired.

Thank you!!!!!
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Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv - Page 6 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv - Page 6 EmptyTue May 21, 2013 9:31 am

i replaced mine with new axles but they also popped when i turned/ if its just the boot you can get a boot repair kit at autozone for bout 20 bucks. looks like crap i think tho. axle isnt to bad of a repair just do one side at a time lol. the driver side is fairly cheap but the pass side will hurt the wallet. gl charlie
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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv - Page 6 EmptyTue May 21, 2013 12:21 pm

Boot repair kits pretty much suck. You can't fix it with duct tape. The only real "fix" that's going to work is to remove the axle, disassemble the joint and reassemble with new grease and a new boot.

And by then... you might as well install a reman axle.

It's a question of time vs money, and the money on a reman axle isn't that much.

The only problem - the quality of the reman axles may be worse than the one you are taking out. So sometimes it's worth the labor and self-education value of replacing the boot the right way.

A 'split boot' or boot repair kit might hold for a little while, but plan on taking it apart and doing it the right way soon.
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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv - Page 6 EmptyTue May 21, 2013 12:26 pm

charlieRobinson wrote:
69GSColorado wrote:
Looks great Charlie! By the way, if you ever run across another set, please PM me. I've been trying to find a set for awhile but they're hard to come across.

Thanks, homie! Looks and feels great! I highly doubt I will ever see another set for sale again. But if I do, I will post it on the forum.


Front went from 9.25" to 7.25"
Back went from 9" to 8"


how did you measure?
could you measure from the bottom of the chrome trim to the rim or down to the ground.thats a good way.
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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv - Page 6 EmptyTue May 21, 2013 12:31 pm

Yeah, I will measure when I get a chance.

So as far as replacing the axle. Is there any upgrade potential here? Or is an OEM spec part the 1 and only.

Whenever repairing or maintaining, I always look for upgrade potential. Might as well, right?
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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv - Page 6 EmptyTue May 21, 2013 12:32 pm

...like,when I measure like you did in the pics,tape end just over the top of the chrome trim and to the top edge of the wheel rim,that gives me 6 1/4 " looking at my Riv it just doesnt seem that low compared to other Rivs.
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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv - Page 6 EmptyTue May 21, 2013 12:37 pm

charlieRobinson wrote:
Yeah, I will measure when I get a chance.

So as far as replacing the axle. Is there any upgrade potential here? Or is an OEM spec part the 1 and only.

Whenever repairing or maintaining, I always look for upgrade potential. Might as well, right?

There are different price points concerning axles.does this equate to higher quality or name brand?The quality and hardness of the bearings and what not? An ACDelco costs allmost double over a Cardone axle.I paid $44 bucks a piece for left/right Cardones. They sure seemed good quality to me.
And Deek is right,boots aint worth much.imo,doctoring a boot onto an existing axle is just as much work as replacing it.I tried.waste of time.For $20 more or so,you can buy a new axle.


Last edited by robotennis61 on Tue May 21, 2013 12:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv - Page 6 EmptyTue May 21, 2013 12:38 pm

robotennis61 wrote:
...like,when I measure like you did in the pics,tape end just over the top of the chrome trim and to the top edge of the wheel rim,that gives me 6 1/4 " looking at my Riv it just doesnt seem that low compared to other Rivs.

wow. yeah, thats how i measured. And you saw my numbers. That would mean yours is lower than mine.

And to anyone freaking out about the car being too low for snow. Take a look at other cars around you in traffic. They are just as low as my Riv if not lower. Everything made like 2011+ has a nice suspension with a lower stance. So it seems.

Just saying, don't be scared off because of the drop. Everyone else is doing it. smoke
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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv - Page 6 EmptyTue May 21, 2013 12:38 pm

robotennis61 wrote:
charlieRobinson wrote:
Yeah, I will measure when I get a chance.

So as far as replacing the axle. Is there any upgrade potential here? Or is an OEM spec part the 1 and only.

Whenever repairing or maintaining, I always look for upgrade potential. Might as well, right?

There are different price points concerning axles.does this equate to higher quality or name brand?The quality and hardness of the bearings and what not? An ACDelco costs allmost double over a Cardone axle.I paid $44 bucks a piece for left/right Cardones. They sure seemed good quality to me.
And Deek is right,boots aint worth much.imo,doctoring a boot onto an existing axle is just as much work as replacing it.I tried.waste of time.For $20 more or so,you can buy a new axle.

Roger that. Thanks, Robo and Deek man.
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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv - Page 6 EmptyTue May 21, 2013 12:40 pm

charlieRobinson wrote:
robotennis61 wrote:
...like,when I measure like you did in the pics,tape end just over the top of the chrome trim and to the top edge of the wheel rim,that gives me 6 1/4 " looking at my Riv it just doesnt seem that low compared to other Rivs.

wow. yeah, thats how i measured. And you saw my numbers. That would mean yours is lower than mine.

And to anyone freaking out about the car being too low for snow. Take a look at other cars around you in traffic. They are just as low as my Riv if not lower. Everything made like 2011+ has a nice suspension with a lower stance. So it seems.

Just saying, don't be scared off because of the drop. Everyone else is doing it. smoke
yeah I'm hip! I've gone as low as I can go with my 10" springs.I can only go up. If I want to go any lower I would have to go to a 9" spring.I can even go down to an 8" spring without any loss or danger to my Konis.
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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv - Page 6 EmptyTue May 21, 2013 12:44 pm

robotennis61 wrote:
charlieRobinson wrote:
robotennis61 wrote:
...like,when I measure like you did in the pics,tape end just over the top of the chrome trim and to the top edge of the wheel rim,that gives me 6 1/4 " looking at my Riv it just doesnt seem that low compared to other Rivs.

wow. yeah, thats how i measured. And you saw my numbers. That would mean yours is lower than mine.

And to anyone freaking out about the car being too low for snow. Take a look at other cars around you in traffic. They are just as low as my Riv if not lower. Everything made like 2011+ has a nice suspension with a lower stance. So it seems.

Just saying, don't be scared off because of the drop. Everyone else is doing it. smoke
yeah I'm hip! I've gone as low as I can go with my 10" springs.I can only go up. If I want to go any lower I would have to go to a 9" spring.I can even go down to an 8" spring without any loss or danger to my Konis.

Dude, I know you were in the middle of some serious body work, but PLEASE post some pics. I really want to see a lot of views of your Riv. It might not be much to you but I would love it. PLEASE!
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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv - Page 6 EmptyTue May 21, 2013 12:49 pm

charlieRobinson wrote:
robotennis61 wrote:
charlieRobinson wrote:
robotennis61 wrote:
...like,when I measure like you did in the pics,tape end just over the top of the chrome trim and to the top edge of the wheel rim,that gives me 6 1/4 " looking at my Riv it just doesnt seem that low compared to other Rivs.

wow. yeah, thats how i measured. And you saw my numbers. That would mean yours is lower than mine.

And to anyone freaking out about the car being too low for snow. Take a look at other cars around you in traffic. They are just as low as my Riv if not lower. Everything made like 2011+ has a nice suspension with a lower stance. So it seems.

Just saying, don't be scared off because of the drop. Everyone else is doing it. smoke
yeah I'm hip! I've gone as low as I can go with my 10" springs.I can only go up. If I want to go any lower I would have to go to a 9" spring.I can even go down to an 8" spring without any loss or danger to my Konis.

Dude, I know you were in the middle of some serious body work, but PLEASE post some pics. I really want to see a lot of views of your Riv. It might not be much to you but I would love it. PLEASE!

well if you insist.I warn you tho,and no reflection on my taste,that it is a WORK in progress! I keep the interior Mint! but the body work has really taken a backseat to the "Looking for work" thing.But I'll clean her up and post a few.Dont laugh tho shout oops
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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv - Page 6 EmptyTue May 21, 2013 12:51 pm

THANK YOU! THANK YOU! Been waiting for too long! Is she still your daily driver?
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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv - Page 6 EmptyTue May 21, 2013 12:56 pm

Yap.
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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv - Page 6 EmptyTue May 21, 2013 2:17 pm

robotennis61 wrote:
[There are different price points concerning axles.does this equate to higher quality or name brand?The quality and hardness of the bearings and what not? An ACDelco costs allmost double over a Cardone axle.I paid $44 bucks a piece for left/right Cardones. They sure seemed good quality to me.

Hard to answer this. Cardone used to be the name to go to in reman parts, but I've heard a lot of questionable things the last few years. (not about their axles though). I know a lot of people who used their Autozone lifetime warranty on 3 or 4 axle replacements, but do you really want to replace the axle 4 times? (okay, some of them were drag racing with slicks, but still). I would avoid the Autozone ones. If Robo's had good luck with Cardone's then go for it!

I would guess most of the remanufactured axles come from the same place anyway. Some cheap slave labor shack in Bangladesh or something.
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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv - Page 6 EmptyTue May 21, 2013 2:19 pm

Thanks, Derek. Not sure if you guys knew this or not, but I am kinda obsessed/in love with my Riv. I will get brand new parts and pay the premo.

I love her so much.
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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv - Page 6 EmptyTue May 21, 2013 6:01 pm

yep thats why i just replaced mine with brand new ones. those boot things look like crap and are a pita
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PostSubject: Re: Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv   Charlie Robinson's '99 Riv - Page 6 EmptyWed May 22, 2013 11:07 am

Anyone have a PN# for the front drivers side axle? I am not seeing anything on Rockauto.

By the way, definitely noticing the Riv is getting more looks than ever now since it was lowered. It's always funny watching people stare at your car and try to figure it out.

The ass and sequential turn signals/ brake lights get em every time!

Just cant wait to shave and paint the back! YEEEAH.
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